6 May 1969

[Packo]

In the early morning darkness of 6 May, the NVA retaliated with an intensive rocket and mortar barrage, followed by a massive 95th Regiment pincer grand assault against 2 sides of the base an hour later. LZ Carolyn's garrison was reduced by the absence of several line companies on patrol, and the withering defensive fires of the battalion's COMPANY C and E were unable to prevent the onrushing battalions from storming through the wire and into the LZ from both directions. Six perimeter bunkers were overrun, one of the medium howitzers was captured, and the enemy threatened to slice through the center of the base.

The Americans counterattacked with all available personnel, the officers involved being killed at the head of their troops. Artillerymen, supply and signal personnel, and engineers fought and died as emergency infantry reserves. The counterattacks were hurled agains both enemy penetrations, but the most violent fighting occurred on the northern side, where a seesaw battle raged for possession of the 155mm howitzer position. During the course of the battle, this weapon exchanged hands 3 times in hand-to-hand fighting deceded at close range with rifles and E-tools.

Overhead, rocket-firing AH1G Cobra helicopters rolled in, ignoring heavy flak, and blasted the NVA with rockets and miniguns. Air Force AC47 SPOOKY and AC119 SHADOW aircraft, supported by fighter-bombers, were employed against the numerous enemy antiaircraft weapons ringing the perimeter.

Controlled and uncontrolled fires were raging everywhere, and it seemed that the LZ was ablaze throughout its entire length. Waves of NVA infantry charging into the southern lines were met by defending troops who took advantage of the aviation gasoline storage area. They shot holes in the fuel drums and ignited them to create a flaming barrier, which effectively blocked further enemy penetration. In the LZ's opposite sector, a medium howitzer gun pit received 3 direct hits which touched off a fire in its powder bunker, yet the crew calmly stood by its weapon and employed it throughout the night.

Both 105's ammunition points were exploded by enemy fire around 0330, and shrapnel from more than 600 disintegrating rounds in the 2 dumps sprayed the entire LZ for more than 4 hours. LZ Carolyn appeared threatened with total destruction as the thundering conflagration tossed detonating arty projectiles to shower men and equipment with flying rounds and burning shell fragments.

END PART 1

[Packo]

The defending artillerymen and mortar crews fought in desperation heightened by the loss of commo between most weapons and their fire direction centers. The initial enemy barrage destroyed commo from the 155 gun sections to their FDC, forcing crews to individually engage targets on their own volition by leveling tubes full of BEE HIVE or HE charges. When telephone lines from the mortar tubes to their FDC were severed, the direction personnel switched to a bullhorn to relay fire commands across the deafening noise of the battlefield. The battalion mortar platoon's four tubes fired 1500 rounds, ranging from critical illumination to searing WP. In all cases effective fire support was maintained.

Ammunition shortages quickly developed. As on-hand mortar ammunition beside the weapons was exhausted, volunteers dashed through fire-swept open areas to retrieve more rounds from storage bunkers. The destruction of the 105 ammo points caused an immediate crisis in the light howitzer pits. The cannon cockers were fored to redistribute ammo by crawling from one gun section to another under a hail of enemy direct fire and spinning shrapnel form the exploding dump. The crews continued rendering direct fire, even though they were often embroiled in defending their own weapons. One light howitzer section caught in an enemy cross fire between a heavy machine gun and rifles, until the artillerymen managed to turn their lowered muzzle and pump BEE HIVE flechettes into the enemy. All automatic weapons fire against the howitzer was instantly silenced. Cavalry counterattacks reestablished the perimeter, and the enemy force began withdrawing, breaking contact at 0600.



It was the longest night of my life. Thanks Doc Fred, many of us ended up with you. Thanks Air Force and thanks Red Team for the Cobras.

In Memory of all those brave Troopers that night!

Never Prouder to be a Paratrooper and a Sky Trooper!

Packo

C Co. 2nd Bn. 8th Cav (Airborne)
1st Air Cav Division (Airmobile)

C CO AND E WERE BOTH AWARDED THE VALOUS UNIT AWARD for that night.

[Packo]

the 8th Cav motto:

HONOR AND COURAGE!

That, I think says it all.

PS: This all happened during operation MONTANA SCOUT/MONTANA RAIDER series. We lost 567 troopers KIA and 3,555 wounded. This was from November of 68' to June 23rd of 69. Now, what's this THC was saying about us being loosers?

Packo

[phuloi]

My head is spinning and my heart is pounding.The sense of pride to be here in the company of unwilting commitment and bravery is overwhelming.Losers My Ass!Thanks,Packo..

[Gimpy]

6 May, 2002---and every 6 May from this day forward that the good Lord see's fit to allow me to stick around---I'll be thinking and prayin for you and your (and mine) buddies that were there.

Welcome home my Southern brother.

[Andy]

Well, I guess that?s why they paid us so much extra money for being in RVN. The polite thing would be to say, I wish you weren?t there. However it was probably a good thing you were and that evening has most likely made you the man you are.

There?s not doubt you, like some of us, have spent your life since then thinking, ?why, why the hell did I live?? Don?t over think it. Just live as though you were living for yourself and your bros. Or as someone famous said, ?live everyday as though it were your last, for one day you are sure to be right.?

Maybe I should know this but I have to ask. You got nailed that night, right? Was it AK or shrapnel? Don?t know why but bullets never bothered me that much unless they were real close to my ear. Rockets were like rolling the dice. But 82mm?s being walked right to your position, that always caused me to be rather more excited that I cared for.

Seems like that night ruined your entire weekend and beyond. Glad you made it. I?m having a J.D. for you and those who can?t have one for themselves. Lest we forget!

We Serve Co. C. 4/23 (Mech) Inf. 25th Division - The guys who saved what was left of the 7th Cav. In 1876.

Andy

[Packo]

Looks like I stayed awake for nothin'. Racin' tomorrow probably.

Any way,

Gimpy.........nuff said bro!

Griz, Thanks bro!

Andy, Ripley would love this....no I actually was one of the ones that they and our own shells missed. I got hit on a milk run later on with the Koreans. As Billy Pilgrim says...."and so it goes". Got through something like that physically unscathed, but mentally, I and Deb have noticed that my mood has changed a bit since yesterday. Happens every year.

122's.....I think that Mr. Chuck was just happy when one of them landed in Vietnam. They were destructive but not accurate. 82's..now that's a different story. I always felt that they were going to drop one of those suckers in my back pocket.

If you guys don't mind, I'd like to say that since THC, then Vets.com, I've only run into one other Trooper that was in that hell hole that night. Some of you might remember him, he showed up on Vets.com as "SpecTexas" or something like that. He was a cannon cocker on Carolyn, not sure which battery. Anyway in some PM's we started talkin' bout Carolyn and 6 May. He was definately there and even remembered our call sign. We didn't get far into the discussion and he di di ed and I've not seen him on the sights since. It was a devistating evening. Thanks to the DAV's forgotton Warrior Project in the 70's and my best friend Dan, (James's bro from the 3 deuce 7th), I have mostly dealt with that experience. Dan and I did it with a bunch of Beefeaters Gin and other condiments and HOURS AND HOURS OF TALK.

The worst part of the battle was the hand to hand...."Mano a Mano". It got real personal which differs so much from firefights. Damn, I thought, this @#$^%$ is trying to KILL ME! FOR REAL! I would love to meet the guy that invented the E-tool. The battle turned Medieval. It was truly a "night to remember". One of the things that kinda pissed me off was that had this been Korea, WWI or II, or any war after Nam, this would have made front page, world news but like the Ia Drang Valley, we kicked their asses and nobody wanted to report that. Had Charles won.....the press would have been all over it. Prisoners told us that the real deal was that the 95th wanted to give Uncle Ho a 1st Cav LZ for a birthday present. They never got over the Ia Drang, and I would bet my pension they never got over Carolyn.

Well guys, and gals, the race has definately been postponed, of couse cause' my boy Ward Burton was kickin' ass, so I'm going to dawdle off to bed. Got lots of work to do in the a.m. so I can watch the race at noon.

Thanks for listening.......ya'll are wonderful and a great place for times like this. Good night!

Packman

HONOR AND COURAGE!

[MARINEVET]

battle I've heard about several times...but...it NEVER came across like this!!!

Hoisting several ice cold Corona's (bore punched with lime) to the 8th Cav and especially you and the Troopers of Charlie and Echo Companies...OOORAHHHHhhhhhh!!!

Hearty Semper Fi SOJER...from a Marine who also proudly wears our Army's Valorous Unit Award....

[DMZ-LT]

I know what I did , I know what we did . I don't care what anyone says

[1CAVCCO15MED]

We were in Quon Loi, a mid sized LZ in Phouc Long Province about ten miles from Cambodia. We had just moved back there after our month in Bien Hoa waiting for the year later Tet offensive that never came. There had been less action after we moved back and it tapered off to practically zero by May. I realize now the NVA were lulling us into a false sense of security and it worked, at least on me. The night of the attaqck was one of the most peaceful and content we had had in the war. I had decided to go to the treatment bunker to visit my buddies on duty. It was across the road from our hootches. The road was perpendicular to the green line which was about 50 yards away. Since I was in the company area I didn't bring my helment, flak jacket or rifle. We played cards, wrote letters and played the radio. Finally we laid on the litters and went to sleep. That is when all hell broke loose. The NVA had infiltrated the green line and came up on the bunkers from the rear and hit them with RPG's and satchel charges. We guys in the bunker had fallen to the floor and discovered no one in the bunker had a weapon. We could hear the NVA outside the bunker and we just laid on the floor waiting to be killed. The terror was like nothing I had ever experienced. Something happened to my brain. I wanted to sink into the center of the earth but couldn't and I felt something tear in my head. I know it was nothing physical but I felt it. What had happened is I dissociated. My mind split in two and part of me stayed cringing on the floor and the other part left my body and rodse up through the roof and went up about a thousand feet into the air. I was calm but I could see my terrified self still in the bunker and felt a kind of pity. I started calling for God over and over. He answered me. I asked him why he allowed such horror. He told me it was not His doing, that man had free will and I had more to do with it than He. He told me to go back down to the ground, that I would not be killed. At that point on the ground I told someone that I didn't think this attack would ever end. He looked at me funny and said it ended three days ago.

[1CAVCCO15MED]

Now I will tell you what happened to the poor fool on the ground. We were lying there in absolute terror waiting to be killed when there was a knock on the door. That really blew our minds. We asked, "Who's there?", not wanting to seem unhospitable. It was one of the guys that had been manning one of the bunkers on the green line and he said he was hurt bad. We opened the door and let him in. What we saw was grotesque. All he had on were his boots. His clothes had been blown off of him and he was covered all over in little holes from frags and sand. All we knew to do was cover his entire thorax with vaseline guaze in case there were sucking chest wounds and cover that with tape. My memory after that is disjointed, allowing only glimpses. The fight lasted almost all night. Other LZ's were being hit with ground attacks, including I think LZ Carolyn. Choppers were bringing in casualties by the dozens and guys were crawing in from the green line. Every time we unloaded a chopper tracers came at us. We got 167 casualties that night. We had places for four litters. We triaged, stabilized and sent to the big hospitals. Most of the supply guys and cooks pitched in a helped us. A guy from the motor pool named Hackney made numerous trips to the green line bunkers and dragged or carried guys back under fire. He never got a medal. I remember in order to see the wounds we had to lift up one end of the litters and pour the blood out like it was pouring from a bucket. I remember a foot slowly falling to the floor after I took a guy's boot off. The blood got ankle deep. Huge clots started forming on the floor. For some reason that is what scared me. We got cases of quarts of peroxide and poured them on the floor. The foam got about a foot high and we swept the foam out the door. We did this several times through the night. I remember giving a guy a shot in the thigh and it had so much blood under the skin that when I pulled the needle out the blood shot up about a foot. We kept getting more casualties and the tracers just quit being important. I remember watching them with a kind of detached curiosity. Very severely wounded were often fully alert and in no pain and calm. If they asked how bad it was we told them. I held at least twenty hands that night as guys died, going through the whole grieving process as a nineteen year old in fifteen minutes until they were at peace and ready to go. I had the most profound conversations of my life that night. We talked about girls, cars and even bicycles because that is all some of them had ever had. We talked about mom. As they died I followed them down to the very doors of death and then there was this awful snap as they left me there by myself. No time to grieve, on to the next one. I remember the number as twenty two. I died with twenty two guys that night. I carried them to the body tent over and over.
The next morning I remember going to the mess tent and sitting down to eat. I was about halfway through the meal when I noticed my hands we covered in blood and brains. I was so numb I could not care. I kept eating.

[1CAVCCO15MED]

Through it all I never met one single loser.

[phuloi]

A fountain of sorrow...

[1CAVCCO15MED]

In talking to some of my buddies from my company I have made the statement that this was not just the worst day of my life, it was the best. We did more good on that day than most people do in a lifetime. I feel i was blessed by God for being there and being able to help so many in such dire circumstances. I would do it again tomorrow. We were damn good.

[frisco-kid]

I'm sorry you were so severely "wounded" that night. But you were able to function and save lives. And more importantly, you were able to comfort these brave men on their transition from this world to the next by being the last kind face they would see, making sure the last words they heard were kind and careing ones. I witnessed many acts of unrecognized bravery over there, and your actions that night is equal to any of them. God bless you, Fred.

"COURAGE IS RESISTANCE TO FEAR, MASTERY OF FEAR-NOT ABSENCE OF FEAR." Mark Twain--1894

[frisco-kid]

God saved you in that Hell because he had other plans for you. You were meant to live and find your niche in life as Deb's lover and soulmate. To help your fellow warriors to heal and cope with their invisible wounds. To be present at the passing of your Dad, as is the proper sequence of things. And to remind others of the actions of the men that you served with in that particular Hell, that aren't here to do it themselves.

WELCOME HOME, MY FRIEND.

[billygun]

My thoughts and prayers are with. Now society is unable to understand the suffering and anguish of times you described. Losers, certainly not.



Semper Fi, Gentlemen

[Andy]

Your a better man than I am. On behalf of grunts who needed medics throughout that entire war, Thank you, thank so very much.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[Arrow]

I don't need to say this cause I think all of you that really know me know that I wouldn't be hangin' on this corner if I thought you were a bunch of losers. When I found you and then begin to listen (and it is listening when you read with your heart) I knew I found some really good men and brothers.

It is some three years down the road and a whole lot of time and I feel the same way. Blessed to know you. Comforted by you through pm, messages on the board, phone calls to check on me, and putting up with my high's and low's not to mention my Irish temper.

You are an exceptional group of guys, I see the representation of all that is good in the American Male here in this family we have. Good husbands, Great Dads, Loyal Brothers, men that have worked hard in their life times, intelligence, compassion, brave and courageous hearts.

The lessons I have learned here from your worst of times to your best of times have helped make me a stronger better person. I just want to thank you for taking me in and teaching me and allowing me to be part of who you are. The best that my generation had to offer. God Bless you all. sis

[Arrow]

I couldn't resist doing this. I figured it was a safe bet that all the old warrants had ran out on these guys and the Law down South wasn't lookin' for them. Some of you have seen this so you know the one with the hair is Packo, MARINEVET in the center. The other mean lookin' Marine is? Heck I don't know.

They clean up pretty good don't they? The title of the picture is "Three old men with cups" (that's how it came to me I "ain't " taken responsibility for that name.) The moral of this story is don't trust your picture to a girl with a Compaq Presario. ;)

[DMZ-LT]

n/t

[MARINEVET]

...I wuz hopin' the "other title" of "THREE KINGS" woulda caught on, but I guess the "Three Old Men With Cups" is more appropriate...!!! ;o)

As for the other Marine...in evening dress...it's my good friend Col Mike Malachowsky, who was at the time this flick was taken (maybe last June???), the CO, Recruit Training Regiment, MCRD, Parris Island, SC...his command was having a Mess Nite, and they had honored me as being their Guest of Honor...and I made sure it was truly a Joint Service Mess Nite...with Packo (Tom) as our "Army Rep," and my Daughter Beth (Cadet Major USAF ROTC) as our "Air Force Rep"...twas a very goooood nite!!! Ski is now the Deputy Commander of Marine Forces Korea.

Ackshully, looking over the flick again...we B Looooookin' Gooood!!!

[Arrow]

MARINEVET *giggle* it wasn't my fault sir! I swear!

[1CAVCCO15MED]

Amazingly, I have found some peace. It is when I realized that this was a night of great giving as well as taking and terror that I found some peace. The old brain is fried, I can only get so much better with that. But I actually can look back on that night with some fondness. God, the Salem PTSD program and talking to all you wonderful people has done this for me. Larry, I hope that you can find the paths of healing that I have found over the last couple of years. Just remember all programs are not the same and if you aren't getting what you need just keep on looking.

[Arrow]

Larry I been wondering where you have been brother. Your Shelties are beautiful. Below is a website dealing with PTSD (the best I have found) it might be of some help to you. I believe the more information we have the more we know how to pray for our healing. When the mystery is taken out of the equation and you have knowledge then you begin to gain control again. We may never be completely healed until we exit this life but we may be able to laugh at the demon that has chased us for so many years. When you realize that your fear has a whole lot to with the response of the brain and the body to the memory and the events that our triggering you it is a whole lot easier to face down the demons that come at you in the middle of the night. Or blindside you at any given moment. Knowledge is power and when coupled with prayer it might just become a miracle. I'm glad you are back with us. We need you around here. sis

www.trauma-pages.com/index.htm

[Andy]

Arrow, what a great picture.

Now I'm not trying to be mean but the guy on the left, doesn't it seem like they may have designed the 7.62mm bullet using his head as a model?
The man in the center is fine, he's holding a cigar and a drink, I can relate to that.
Then there's the guy on the right. Look again at the expresion, notice he needs two hands to hold onto the canteen cup. A poster boy for the "Special Needs" people?

It's also interesting that all three have grown too tall for their hair. Is that a southern thing?

Stay healthy, Just kidding,
Andy

[Packo]

The Col's nickname is "bullet head". I was still wondering how he got his name........thanks Andy. What I truly loved during MarineVets speech was he told the audience of officers...."Packo and I call him "bullet head", the rest of you call him SIR. Mike is also one of the nicest guys it's been my pleasure to meet.

That expression was caused by a drink called "Grog", martini's, wine, and lord knows what else. It was one of the best times I've ever had, and I got the mug, I mean engraved canteen cup, to prove it!

I do agree that I look like some sort of poster boy for the special olympics.....but the Marines MADE me do it!

I wanted to tiltle it "ONCE MORE INTO THE BREECH!", but somehow 3 old guys with cups got there first.

Sis, Deb and I hooted when we saw that picture....thanks for giving me a laugh! Thanks everyone else for being a friend.

Doc Fred, we'll talk buddy.

Packo

[MARINEVET]

"Bullet Head" from me. I have been his mentor over the years (his term...not mine) and have watched him grow into a superb Officer of Marines. While I have a "good bald head," Ski has a GR8 bald head...truly bullet-shaped...just started calling him that quite some years ago. Couple guys over the years I've called that, but Ski truly is THE Bullet Head of Bullet Heads!!!

NOW...as for Packo's BS about us making him do it...give me a friggin' break...he was leading the charge the entire nite!!! By the time this flick was taken, we were really doing quite well to be able to stand in formation (or sorts) at all...sure a good thing we had played golf earlier in the day 'cause I woulda been a hurtin' puppy tryin' t'play the next morning! It was a long drive home from the Island the next day, but what a great time we had.

[Packo]

to bring this to the top, but in re-reading just have to say to Larry and all others, what a great show of brotherhood and emotion ya'll laid on me and I love and respect all of you who answered and those that for whatever reason didn't or couldn't.

Larry, my dear dear friend, Doc Fred, Me, and a bunch of us have found the solice in getting the help we needed. There is no regret in my heart, only the pride of serving, and the chest swelling I feel everytime I get on this site and feel I'm hangin' with guys like you. Sis and the other ladies like Catena that are so much a part of US, I love you all dearly. Your all so much like my Deb........a trooper without Jump wings, but wings of Angels.

Larry, if you need help getting into Salem, Doc Fred's recommendation is all you need, but I'll be on the blower to the boys in my beloved state of VIRGINIA on your word. I may still carry some weight there, but you'd have to ask Doc Fred that. Mortarmen, what a great bunch who humped the real heavy stuff!

I'm sitting like a kid on Christmas eve awaiting arrival of 2 of the 3 greatest friends a man could ever have. Not that ya'll don't rate, just have known them for well over 20 years, 30 if you count the 3rd. Deb's fast asleep and I'm sipping Cognac while listening to Flight of the Intruder.

MARINEVET! Wayne, my dear brother. Your serious comments make me proud to be your friend, your joking brings me right back to the Golf and Grog we shared not long ago. I am down right happy and proud that my beloved ARMY awarded you with one of our honors. Tell "Bullet Head" that if he thought the last CG was an Asshole, he'd really dislike the new one. Told all the DI's in his meeting with them that, and I quote a few DI's I know, "I'm sorry I don't take much to the DI's, my whole exhistance is Recruiting and I make that my first priority as the CG of this Depot". (or something to that effect) Did not enamer himself to the troops.

Gotta get to the rack......work awaits in the morning, but if I foolishly left someone out, like Frisco, I appologize, but your all included!

Love ya'll....


Packo

[Packo]

Damn you work fast! See my colors and thank you from the very depts of my heart! Now, can you get rid of that damn Pukin' Buzzard I see on OTHERS posts. I mean, their Airmobile, NOT AIRBORNE!

Just kiddin'

Packman

[exlrrp]

great stories and told in a sequential way that fits it together. I'm going back to read them again.
later, yall


James

Happy just to be alive

[frisco-kid]

I bet you don't talk that trash this weekend, when Dan's in the house:p . It was all paratroopers when I was in. I don't know when they started letting legs in ['68?], but it was after I left.

Enjoy your weekend, Bro.

[ArtySgt]

Thanks for including the Artillery sections in your after action report, been down that road myself.;)

[Packo]

Dan just dawdled off to bed, I'm a bit hammered and on my way.... we were up till' 0-dark thirty this a.m., then a trip to beach, lunch, book stores, then home. Never mind....let me do a Dan thread and I'll tell ya'll bout our fun! Tommy, my friend, I didn't mention the legs in the 101....your right! (Dan's 6 foot huge with hands that impressed every Gay in Frisco! I'll let him tell you that story!)

Arty Sgt..........Goddam arty guys fight like grunts only meaner when people grab one of their piece's! God bless you and your bee hive rounds! (not to take away from HE, Illum, and Willy peat!)

Packo