"I Pledge Allegiance" [Archive] - The Patriot Files Forums

SuperScout

06-26-2002, 12:27 PM

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) ? A federal appeals court ruled Wednesday that the Pledge of Allegiance is an unconstitutional endorsement of religion and cannot be recited in schools. (Previous sentence was cut and pasted from the AP wire service.)

In reading the First Amendment, again, for the umpteenth time, I'm totally at a loss as to how anyone can misconstue the phrase, "...one nation, under God..." as endorsing or supporting any religion. What religion does this crackpot judge infer we are supporting? Where is the empirical evidence that this oath violates the Amendment? Best question of the day is, "How do we impeach, convict and remove this rectal polyp posing as a federal judge?":mad:

SgtBlake

06-26-2002, 12:27 PM

WTF over what a crock of shit :mad:

Seascamp

06-26-2002, 01:48 PM

I can see it now. US Marshals in black mufti, body armor and kevlar helmets busting in on a group of 6-year-olds clandestinely reciting the pledge. ? Hook them up and shake them down?, says the top Marshal, ?I want every coin that has God on it placed in evidence bags?

This 9th circuit Fed Court ruling truly defies sanity and logic. Very sad state of affairs and I'm thinking that bunch just sets out to agravate and defy this country, over and over again.

Scamp

:mad: :mad:

39mto39g

06-26-2002, 03:24 PM

our forfathers seperated church and state for a good reason. Every person in this country has the right to worship what ever god he/she wishes to. what I think the courts were trying to hedge was the anti god having an equal say in the pledge. There are a lot of atheust people in this country and they support the country just as vigerously as the god belivers.
perosnnaly, I don't care if there is god in the pledge or not. I do belive the seperation of church and state is a good idea.
Church ideas belong in the heart and in church, not in school or the constitution.
Or budda will beat up allha.
Ron

Keith_Hixson

06-26-2002, 03:36 PM

There shall be no establiishing a state religion. What the forefathers meant Is: There would be no state religion as the Europeans countries had. Church of England for the brits, Catholic for the Spanish and French, etc. They would be turning over in their graves on this one. The only one who would be offended on this is an aithiest and they shouldn't be offended because if they think we are foolish for being believers so be it.

It will go to the Supreme Court. It won't hold up on good legal scrutiny when compared to the constitution.

Keith

David

06-26-2002, 04:43 PM

I can understand the reasoning they used but the decision is bad. All of the worlds major religions believe in God or god's. The pledge says "One nation under God" it does not say "One nation under a Christian God" so the idea it establishes a state religion is bogus. This is a sad ruling and just more signs of the times. I am sure many of you know what I mean by that :(

KOOL

06-26-2002, 06:12 PM

What's next? Our flag? :mad:

Arrow

06-26-2002, 06:23 PM

but this is the character of many (not all by any means)judges we have sitting on benches all over this land. And we are suppose to trust these bozos to guard our Constitutional Rights? If they don't feel that they are accountable to a higher power I am a little worried about what kind of decisions they would be making regard our freedoms.

White Oak

06-26-2002, 06:36 PM

It's a Pledge of Allegiance to the flag and the United States of America.If I was of the Faith that Allah or maybe Budda was my god and I was rasing my children to that that faith I guess having my child stand up every morning and reciting it would make me mad.Why does god's name have to put in there to start with?Does anyone know how long the Pledge of Allegiance has been around?Why can't it be changed?America is a melting pot of people,people of all races,creeds and faiths.These faiths do not have a god or a god as we know.We can welcome them,help them and make them Americans but we can never make them worship like us or belive in our god.Our fore fathers came here so they could worship as they wanted and I guess their fore fathers came here for the same reason.:confused:

39mto39g

06-26-2002, 06:52 PM

to go along with what ever the majority of the people think and say that god should be left in the pledge. Its hard to go against what the majority will. The world is not flat and there are no witches.
I would much rather have some one make disisions based on what is best for all the people rather that what a religion would have us belive. Whos religion do we pick?
Keep your religion in your heart and in your church where it belongs.
Ron

thedrifter

06-27-2002, 06:32 AM

Protect the Pledge of Allegiance...
Take it out of Liberal Judges forever...
Let them here your voice......

A Worthy Petition....

Sempers,

Roger

http://www.millionsofamericans.com/clients/moa/current_project/index.cfm

Sgt_Tropo

06-27-2002, 07:19 AM

What a bunch of hypocrits ! :mad:
Here we have some folks saying it's okay to use God's name in vain whenever they feel like it, but it's NOT okay for us to use God's name in our Pledge of Alligence ?!?!? :confused:

I, for one, would much rather risk offending someone by reciting our Pledge of Alligence, than by showing my ignorance and absolute stupidity by cursing and using God's name in that manner.

I believe that each person has the right to worship, or not, however they see fit. However, I also believe that this same right gives me and millions of others the priviledge to recite the Pledge of Alligence, as it is written !

This nation was founded as a nation were one is free to pratice virtually any religion, including atheism. There is no constitutional right to be free FROM religion.

SuperScout

06-27-2002, 09:31 AM

Email Sen. Ptrick Leahy at senate.gov/~leahy, and tell him to get off his dead ass and onto his dying feet, and clear the nominations for some decent judges as have been appointed by GWB. He is part of teh problem, not part of the solution.:mad:

Seascamp

06-27-2002, 09:52 AM

Some reasonably well known Jurists hail this decision as brave and bold while others call it foolishness and absurd. I?ll stick with ill advised but something that?s needs to be pounded out now that it?s on the plate. I couldn?t help but notice that politicos on both side of the isle came out against the 9th circuit appellate decision and that tells me that they would be skinned alive by their constituents to do otherwise. Interesting to watch all that and get a feeling of the lay of the political land.

Personally, I believe it is necessary to maintain a delicate mix of secular and non-secular representation in the fabric of our culture. Going too far one way or another is a proven recipe for chaos and calamity. Certainly reliable history and the contemporary instability in the world is profound evidence that a mix and balance is necessary. So, given that bias, I think that this controversy is relevant so that the issue might be put on the table and dealt with once and for all via higher appeals.

I vote for putting an end to the screwing around that does no good other than confuse the kiddos and get the parents screeching at one another. These days I really think that school admin types and teachers spend far too much time wrapped around the PC axel to attend to the primary business at hand, that is, education of the kiddos for crying out loud.

Scamp

Packo

06-27-2002, 11:25 AM

in 1954 during the Cold War fight against the Godless Communists. It was an in-your-face thing to those that would allow no religion other than Communisim. It has remained. God is a universal term. Some people worship money, so God is money to them, some worship cosmic muffins, so God is a cosmic muffin. It's sort of like Kleenex. Even if you buy Puffs, you say, "pass the Kleenex". It has nothing to do with organized religion. I would also like to know how this asshole who filed the suit's child was damaged in any way? There is no right to not be offended in this country no matter what the PC'ers say. If there was, I'd be filing suits daily.

I believe that this guy ought to also turn in all his money that has "In God We Trust" on it. Certainly he doesn't want to spread religious propaganda around and offend other athiests.

TURN YOUR MONEY IN, BOZO!

Packo

Drywall

06-27-2002, 12:29 PM

to be the recepticle for all the evil money that they refuse to use. I shall push my predjudices aside and suffer the offending cash.
Please send it all to acct. no. 12345, Bank of the Caymans, Cayman Islands.

Your humble servant, Dryrich, er I mean Drywall

Arrow

06-27-2002, 10:42 PM

Believing there is not a master planner behind the creation of the worlds can be compared to believing there was an explosion in a Print shop and out came a dictionary.

Arrow

06-28-2002, 12:07 AM

JOHN MICHAEL MONTGOMERY LYRICS

(true story)

The Little Girl
(Harley Allen)

Her parents never took the young girl to church
Never spoke of His name
Never read her His word
Two non-believers walking lost in this world
Took their baby with them
What a sad little girl

Her daddy drank all day and mommy did drugs
Never wanted to play
Or give kisses and hugs
She'd watch the TV and sit there on the couch
While her mom fell asleep
And her daddy went out

And the drinking and the fighting
just got worse every night
Behind their couch she'd be hiding
Oh what a sad little life
And like it always does, the bad just got worse
With every slap and every curse
Until her daddy in a drunk rage one night
Used a gun on her mom and then took his life

And some people from the city took the girl far away
To a new mom and dad
And kisses and hugs everyday
Her first day of Sunday school the teacher walked in
And a small little girl
Stared at a picture of Him

She said I know that man up there on that cross
I don't know His name
But I know He got off
He was there in my old house
and held me close to His side
As I hid there behind our couch
The night that my parents died

(little pictures have big ears)

39mto39g

06-28-2002, 04:43 AM

will make normally sain people suddenly become one of those on the other end of the scale.
I useually get into the religous argument with my brother-in-law and he tries to justify what ever point he is making with "the bible says" So I wrote on a piece of paper "the bible is just a book" Now whos writting is better. Both were written by a human.
Religious people have it made in dealing with lifes problems. If something goes wrong in there life, Its God will. If something happens that is good then its gods will. Thats just a way not to take responcability for your failurs.
I know that most of you here and most people in the US belive in God and to argue against something that most people belive in is a waste of time for both sides.
I've never sceen any proff that there is a God, I have sceen plenty of proff there isn't, eather that or God is very mean.
The world is in such a mess that only a God could ever stop what is happening, and yet, it continues.
I belive that the people that belive in God are relly good people and have no where to turn but to a God,
Keep religion in your heart where it belongs.
Ron

Packo

06-28-2002, 05:54 AM

but have seen a bunch of horrible things in this world also. That proves nothing because I have also seen more beauty which outweighs the bad. I will never argue with someone over religion. Too personal, but I will say this, it's a matter of faith. I see no proof that there is air. I can't see it, touch it, taste it, but I have faith it's there. If not, how would we fill up footballs? People will blame their failures or misfortunes in life on a bunch of things. Today, the blame game is even more widespread. If someone uses the term, God's will, I see that as a way of them coping with the situation without blaming. All I can say is that I just can't believe this is all just some Cosmic accident. As you say buddy, there is no proof of God yet lot's of proof there is no God, I would love to see that proof. For every evil you can come up with, I can counter with a good. Lets just say that neither of us can prove God's existance nor non-existance.......I'll just continue to have faith he does, and you can have faith he doesn't. I do have to ask you ol' friend, did you ever pray while in combat? It's really a rhetorical question......and personal, I don't expect an answer.

Take care!

Packo

Seascamp

06-28-2002, 07:56 AM

The 9th circuit lee helm just went clang, clang, clang, all back full, sound the collision alarm; whooooot, whooooot.

Fair enough, the 9th circuit appellate court probed the size of the envelope, got their stupid heads served up to them on a platter and stayed their own ruling indefinitely. I can suppose there was mega tons of back channel pressure and those alleged Judges got steam rolled. I?m thinking Scout is right. It is time to unass those idiots from their rarified, arrogant air and get some realistic people plugged into those positions. Anyway, in a time where good news is as rare as lips on a woodpecker, I feel a nice Friday coming on.

Scamp

ArtySgt

06-28-2002, 05:35 PM

Well and truly said, thank you.

Arrow

06-28-2002, 07:10 PM

Boy that's a fact. And I don't mind sayin so. He's not my crutch He's my Iron Lung. But I understand how other's feel about not needin' him. I am just not one of them. Jimmy Hendrix asked the question "are you experienced?" Those that had been where he had been knew what he was talkin' about. Same/same with faith you have to go there before you know...

I Believe In You
Bob Dylan

They ask me how I feel
And if my love is real
And how I know I'll make it through.
And they, they look at me and frown,
They'd like to drive me from this town,
They don't want me around
'Cause I believe in you.

They show me to the door,
They say don't come back no more
'Cause I don't be like they'd like me to,
And I walk out on my own
A thousand miles from home
But I don't feel alone
'Cause I believe in you.

I believe in you even through the tears and the laughter,
I believe in you even though we be apart.
I believe in you even on the morning after.
Oh, when the dawn is nearing
Oh, when the night is disappearing
Oh, this feeling is still here in my heart.

Don't let me drift too far,
Keep me where you are
Where I will always be renewed.
And that which you've given me today
Is worth more than I could pay
And no matter what they say
I believe in you.

I believe in you when winter turn to summer,
I believe in you when white turn to black,
I believe in you even though I be outnumbered.
Oh, though the earth may shake me
Oh, though my friends forsake me
Oh, even that couldn't make me go back.

Don't let me change my heart,
Keep me set apart
From all the plans they do pursue.
And I, I don't mind the pain
Don't mind the driving rain
I know I will sustain
'Cause I believe in you.

39mto39g

06-30-2002, 05:14 AM

No where in my post does it say I do not belive in God. Yes, Yes, and Yes I prayed to God in VN, several times and also thanked him once for gun ships.
Im saying religion should be in the heart and in church and not in government.
Why would a God let a little baby die? just to have the parents have nightmairs for the rest of there lives. Abortion? Go visit the childens burn center in your area, what perpose is this.
Its hard talking negitivly about a subject that 90% of Americans belive in, thats why most of the politions are talking bad about the court ruleing, But just because 90% belive in something does not make it true, The world is not flat. But, if you said that 500 years ago you would have been put in jail.
Take care.
Ron

SuperScout

06-30-2002, 08:45 AM

If you believe that God "lets a baby" die, I would contend that your God is too small. My God does not play little games like "Deux ex machina," or god out of the machine as was portrayed in Greek plays. And maybe the purpose of being exposed to suffering is to make us more compassionate, more careful so as to prevent some suffering, or to get us out of our own conceits and think of someone else for a change. There are certain laws of nature (call them God-created laws for a better definition), that God does not violate; for example, if a person as saintly as Mother Teresa fell out of an airplane at 2500 feet, the law of gravity, which was created by God, would still prevail, and the saintly soul would perish. With all due respect and honor to my paratrooper brothers, I think they will support my contention, and remember their checklists/buddy checks and pat their reserves, knowing full well that gravity exists, even for paratroopers. I thank God I'm a Dirty Ol' Leg!!:cool:

39mto39g

06-30-2002, 10:37 AM

no comment?
Ron

Keith_Hixson

06-30-2002, 02:38 PM

I really appreciate your honesty!
I think a simplistic look at life and how God fits in can be dangerous. The very word faith implies trust. But, chocking it all up to God's will is wrong. However, I don't want to get into a lecture on Theology 101 but we all know bad things happen to the innocent and good people. Anybody with any intellect won't try to explain it all because there is no good explanation. I have two stories that at least help me make sense of the bad things that happen to all of us at one time or another. They are stories behind two Hymns of the Church written by two pastors. One by a minister that was sending his wife and children to Europe for a vacation and the ship his family was on was sunk in an act of war. His wife and children died. He wrote the Hymn "it is well with my soul." The other was written by a gentleman I met briefly several years ago. He told how his wife had been killed in an auto accident. The words to his hymn are, "we'll talk it over in the sweet bye and bye, we'll talk it over my Lord and I, I'll ask the reasons and He'll tell me why, we'll talk it over my Lord and I." I served as a civilian medic for seven and half years and firefighter. I also was a sheriff's department chaplain. I've seen some the worst things that society has to offer. I don't believe my God desires that harm should come to anyone. But as a realist I know that some really bad things happen to the innocent and good people. I know that there is evil in this world and sometimes bad things happen. Why God allows it to happen is a long theological discussion. But I do know one thing it gives me tremendous comfort to trust God. My faith becomes a tremendous support to me when life caves. When I talk it over with God I always get this assurance that somehow and someway he is still in control and He gives me the peace and comfort to face each day. "It is well with my soul."
Is my faith a crutch? I say yes, but we all have our crutches to see us through. I always ask, "what is your crutch?" Is it drugs, alcohol, recreation, job, a hedonist lifestyle, what do you do to protect yourself from the pain of living when life caves in?" My faith gives me peace and comfort in the bad times and lots of joy in the good times.

Keith;)

39mto39g

06-30-2002, 02:52 PM

Im jellous and envious of your faith in something that I can not see.
What I do for fun and excitment--- I go to work.
Seeeeeeeee Ya
Ron

DMZ-LT

06-30-2002, 04:27 PM

What Ron said. I envy people that give it over to God

phuloi

06-30-2002, 07:56 PM

Each of us,at our appointed time,answered the call to defend the freedom and democracy that supports our right to even have this conversation.From my personal point of view it`s not about whether a school teacher is allowed to write the word "GOD" on the blackboard,or the students are or are not allowed to mutter the word "GOD" when reciting the pledge.To me,it`s all about the hedonist moral decay of the American society in general.My conservative attitudes are telling me something here;take God out of the equation and the rot and filth will prevail and continue to degrade our society.So I pray-God help us!

Andy

06-30-2002, 11:48 PM

Keith:
Isn't God a lot like our founding fathers? Didn't he give us Free Will. We are free to make perfect arses of ourselves and often do. Isn't that what God decided after the begining of the book of Genesis? We have the God given Right to go to hell don't we? If a man rapes and murders a 11 year old (I had that case), isn't the man exercising his free will and not God deciding to make the girl suffer? Anyone can decide to be a jerk.

As far as the Pledge, it's a do it if you want to. That's the way it's been for years. Any kid who decides to talk to Donna during the pledge does so. There is no kid who is stressing out over "under God", it's parents trying to make the point that we the people can't do whatever offends them.

In 1920 a senator from N.Y. said if they take our right to drink away the next thing you know they'll try to take our right to smoke away from us. (That line got a lot of laughs and was thought of as foolish.) However the 18th Amendment was passed.

We are Americans. We are not English or Irish or Spanish or Nigerian by blood. You can move to India but you'll never be one of them, you'll always an American who lives there. In America, someone from anywhere can be an American. (It may take a generation but it's done.) Without a common form of last name, a common blood, a common class structure, a common nationality,
a common color, we are all mongrels. What binds us together are things like the flag. Without something like the pledge, "under God" or not, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights etc. we are just a fragmented bunch of people with no future.
Well, that's just me.

Stay healthy,
Andy

39mto39g

07-01-2002, 08:53 AM

Im German, English, Irish, Dutch,
Pure.

Ron

SuperScout

07-01-2002, 11:38 AM

Pure? Maybe by the current geo-babble you are pure European-American, whatever that is, but what's your point? I did think it a bit odd that you failed to mention that you are American, making perhaps a valid assumption? Are you making this irrelevant statement about your ethnicity as a means of avoiding the topic at hand?:confused:

DMZ-LT

07-01-2002, 12:28 PM

Ron is referring to Andy's comment above that " we are all mongrels" I once knew a dyslexic guy that called his God , Spot.

39mto39g

07-01-2002, 01:46 PM

Thank you DMZLT for telling what I was saying.
SS are you trying to tell me something? If so come out and say it. If not, keep your little remarks about me to yourself. You don't know me sport.
Ron

SuperScout

07-02-2002, 06:21 AM

Nobody said you were a "mutt." Andy's comments that we are a blended race of folks, for the most part, are accurate, and are also part of the underlying strength of America. Your comments about being pure whatever (and the larger question is how can one be 'pure' while consisting of 4 different ethnicities?) were what I was questioning. I was simply seeking clarification of what you wrote, sport.:D

39mto39g

07-02-2002, 06:49 AM

No Shit, you can't be pure if there are four different kind, that was the joke, At least Andy wasn't that stupid

SuperScout

07-02-2002, 07:29 AM

Your attempts at humor are only exceeded by your success at obfuscation.:)

Keith_Hixson

07-02-2002, 07:41 AM

I'm pure also!

My Genealogy looks like English, French, Scandinavian & Irish. = Pure Ornery!:D Purely Confused:D Purely Full of It!

Keith

Someday when I get rich and have time, I want to come down to Texas and Go Deer Hunting on that ranch. And that ain't no Bull.

39mto39g

07-02-2002, 02:28 PM

Do you hear any one talking to you? What is Super Scout anyway, that just after eagle scout?

Keith
Any time.
Where I go is not real hunting though, its just shooting.
Three days, two nights, food and lodging, 11,000 acres, 4 deer for $400.00.
They make you brekfast, take you to the deer stand, the feeder goes of and there are 30 or so deer standing there. 50 to 75 yards away. They pick up the deer, field dress it and take it to a walkin cooler waiting on you. Or they will cut and wrap for $25.00.
After I get three I get out of the deer stand and walk the woods for awhile, Ambush the 4th one.
Ron