In need of MORE "anger management"!!

[Gimpy]

I'm gonna have to spend some more "quality time" with my PTSD & anger management counselor in the next few days cause I nearly had to WRING A WOMANS' NECK today at my VA hospital!

Was standing in line at the pharmacy prescription turn-in window when this B---H behind me started bitchun & moanin about how long it was takin for her and her husband to get his prescription filled. And, she started telling evryone in line (about 10 or 12 of us) how SHe and HE would NEVER come to the VA hospital for R-E-A-L inpatient or outpatient treatment cause THEY had the money to get their own private doctors. And, the ONLY reason they were there was to get their seven-dollar co-pay medications offered to ALL veterans now. (Now I KNOW they must have the $$$$$ she was talkin about cause I saw them drive up in a NEW 2002 Mercedes Benz 500 class sedan when I was gimpin my young ass in the front door).

Welllllll, y'all know me by now, don't-cha? I lit into her smart-ass like a frustrated southern Baptist preacher whose whole congregation was asleep while he was deliverin his sermon!

At first I asked her (nicely I might add, with ALL my suthern "graciousness") if her husband was a "disabled vet"---she said NO, we just come here to get the "cheap" medicine. THAT'S WHEN I LET HER HAVE IT!

I won't go into ALL of the "tirade" I let her (and him) have, but needless to say they left with a little "different" perspective of WHO shloud be "eligible" for these so-called NEW benefits offered now to ALL veterans!

I basically told her & him that THEY were the problem that was now causing the "back-up" at ALL VA hospitals & clinics. When Congress opened up the VA to ALL veterans for medical care & "cheap" prescription meds (they were only a 2 dollar co-pay, now at 7 dollar co-pay) REGARDLESS of whether their "conditions" were "service-connected" or NOT is why SHE & HIM were now waiting so freakin long in that damn line with the rest of us! I told her what Congress SHOULD have done (if anything) was offer these vets a prescription CARD (similar to Medicare) where they could take their G--Damn "co-pay" to a private pharmacy if their conditions waranted medication., AND "service-connected" vets as well if they so desire. But, she and him should get back in their expensive new car, and take their expensive little "asses" out of the way of the vets that DON'T have the $$$$$ to go elsewhere for their treatment & drugs!!!!!!!

A few of the guys in line started sayin ---- HELL YES!! GO AWAY!!

Anyway, my blood pressure is UP slightly and I guess I'll go and get some of my "cheap" meds!!
:d: :d: :d: :d: :d: :d: :d: :d:

Nighty---nite!!

[Keith_Hixson]

Preach It Brother, Preach It. I knew you were a preacher.

I guess its their right if he served. But the VA medical was set up for those who had service connect injuries and those who can't afford medical treatment. But on the other hand if he did serve it was their right inspite of their income. But, I agree it is ruining the intent of the provision.

Keith

[sfc_darrel]

and retired military to get health care for life.

Sorry Keith but I'm with Gimpy :d:

[Tamaroa]

I am a veteran. I gave my country 4 years of my life when I did not have to. When this program started. I applied for it. Why not? If I am deemed eligible and my country wants to help me, I am all for it. I do NOT have any service connected disability but so what! I told them what my insurance was and whenever possible, I take advantage of the program that MY country offered ME. Right now the only thing I use it for is Vision care. When I first signed up, I received an eye exam free and a free pair of glasses. The next time around, I was told it would cost 57.50. Which is fine with me. It is still a lot less expensive then an eye exam plus glasses from a normal provider.

By the way, when I applied for my first and only mortgage I ever had, the VA DENIED it because my mortgage would have been twice my annual salary. So since I was DENIED something that I was told I would be eligible for as VETERAN, I will take advantage of anything the government throws my way.

So Gimpy, don't let your BP go up over something the guy was eligible for in the first place. Do you berate people who complain about people taking too long in long lines at Shop Rite? Whats the difference? If you are part of a program that becomes popular, waiting becomes a factor. How about the DMV in your state? Whats the difference?

Bill

A VETERAN PERIOD

[Arrow]

There are a lot of Vets still in the work force in this area that would not let the VA touch them with a ten foot pole. Their senior trip to Vietnam created a whole lot of distrust for Uncle Sam with his hand extended. Their worst fear is to lose the ability to work and have to go to the VA for medical care. Having experienced it up close and personal regard a loved one I have to say their fears are not unfounded. I hope they all die standing up at their jobs with their boots on flyin' the California howdy to Uncle Sam and his experiment in medical? care?...


Sometimes you win
Sometimes you won't
Sometimes you beat that devil
Sometimes you don't
We're all just killin' time
Til the good Lord calls us home
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die with your boots on

Toby Keith/Jim Femino (Die With Your Boots On)

[Arrow]

telling it like it is...

[Gimpy]

Lookee here Tamora, bill, whoever.

I'm sending you a quarter in the mail so you can go out and buy yourself a freakin CLUE! Cause you're evidently seriously LACKING in that department----

Now lemme see if I got this right. You're gonna "take advantage of ANYTHNG the government throws your way". Specifically (your words) because YOU were turned down by the VA for a home mortage, supposedly because your mortgage would be TWICE what your annual salary was, huh?? WELL---DUH!!

The damn VA DOES NOT finance "home loans" in the FIRST PLACE!
All they do is "guarantee" the loan amount to the MORTGAGE COMPANY that approves your loan and gives you the $$$$ under VA gudelines! ALL MORTAGE COMPANIES have "qualifying" criteria that YOU MUST MEET before they'll lend you the money. What planet have YOU been on for the past 40 or so years???

Yep, your JUST the kind of "JUST A VETERAN" we need alright. Instead of raising HELL with Congress to see that the most serious, disabled veterans are taken care of FIRST rather than the folks like yourself. You've just decided to "take advantage of ANYTHING the government throws my way", huh??

Well, I got some "advice" for ya if you're EVER in front of ME in line at a VA facillity----GET THE HELL OUT OF MY WAY!!!!! Cause I just might STEP on your A$$ if you don't MOVE!!

PS----I don't think you should be "denied" any benefits or treatment----just don't hinder or cause problems for those of US that may possibly be slightly more "entitled" to have that same "stuff" thrown at us!!!

:d: :d: :d: :d: :d: :d:

PPS---And, if I have to "explain" the difference of Shop Rite--the state DMV and the VA to you----then you REALLY are a "lost cause"!

[David]

Gimpy, I do not use the VA nor am I disabled but I do understand your frustration. While your anger is justified I believe it is misdirected at Tamaroa. This whole fiasco is yet another underfunded program started by ahole politicians to make brownie points with voters. They do not intent to have it work smoothly nor will it until more work is done to bring pressure on the powers that be to fulfill there promises to the letter rather then pay lip service to those that gave them the right to breath free air. I think our anger could be more productive focused on the people that really cause these problems rather then our brothers in arms, whether or not they saw combat or were disabled as a result thereof.

[Tamaroa]

The reference to Shoprite, DMV, etc, is a reference to people waiting in line as I have done on numerous ocasions and either waited forever due to incompetent clerks or people on line creating mayhem. That and nothing else.

Regarding the VA mortgage, i was making the paltry sum of 16K at the time and the mortgage was 34 K. I missed out on a low interest loan because of language that I was not aware of when I received my benefits package. I did use my G.I. bill benefits to go to college.

The gentleman you were referring to is allowed by law to claim those benefits, just as I am allowed to claim them. Would you like me to roll over and play dead and say yessiree take my benefits away even though I'm entitled to them? I won't accept them -- just so those with service disconnected disabilities can have a shorter line or a bigger pot from which to draw. I really don't get your arguement Gimpy. We are all vets and should be accorded the same benefits. Granted those with service connected disabilities or MOH winners should and do have a bigger piece of the pie, but as I said before -- If I am entitled to a benefit, I will apply for it. I am sorry if you have a problem with that.

Bill


P.S. One more very important point!! I did not go looking for this. The Rockland County VA veteran's Rep went all over the county trumpeting this program ASKING us to sign up for it. I took it as a sign that veterans were being looked at in a positive light. Go figure -- other veterans would resent me for taking advantage of a program offered by the VA. Such is life. :)

[Andy]

Someone Please correct me if I?m wrong. As I understood it the government decided to start taking care of it?s vets after the Civil War. The Ken Burns PBS series on the Civil War made some comment that in one of the states in the deep south, Alabama I think, 20% of the state budget in 1866 was to fit vets with artificial limbs. Eventually the Fed?s took over. But it seems that Veterans Assistance was intended only for those injured by bullet or disease during the war.
After WWII the GI Bill was intended to give service people a chance to make up for the 4 years they lost but VA hospitals were still for people with some service connected malady. I don?t harbor any ill-will towards anyone getting assistance from the VA, but service connected injuries seems like they should be given priority. Service connected injured vets who have no option but to use the VA should always be placed at the front of the line.
Someone who served in time of peace who has no injury, by president, doesn?t have the same right to VA medical assistance as a combat injured vet. In my eyes, the combat vet who was injured earned his place at the front of the line. Matter of fact it seems like common courtesy. If a person in a wheel chair is trying to get into a building where the doors open out, would you hold the door for the guy? Wouldn't that be the only decent thing to do?
To treat everyone equally, under these circumstances sounds a little too much like socialism at it?s worst.
Feel free to throw rocks, but I?ve always been interested in the original intent of the law and then shake my head as it is twisted and misinterpreted over the years. (Like the 2nd Amendment, separation of church and state, etc.)

Stay healthy,
Andy

[Packo]

but the VA system was incorporated for SERVICE CONNECTED VETS ONLY. (Medical system) This has changed. When it first changed you were issued either a Purple Card, PRIORITY, or a Blue Card, NO PRIORITY. Service Connected always had PRIORITY over Non-Service Connected. Now, the Priority is gone and it just says Service Connected in tiny words on my new picture ID card. This is a travesty! I don't care if Non-SC vets use the VA system, but they should understand that they need to wait until the Priority VETS are taken care of. Now that they have flung the doors open to everyone, the Veterans of Original Intent are being forced into waiting even longer for their care, as explained in a recent article that someone posted, and this is a crying shame. I don't want to begrudge a Veteran anything, but the NSC'S should wait in line AFTER US! Then, if there is time and money left, you can get yours. The system was never designed to take care of all Vets, and nobody ever gave the VA the extra money to take care of all Vets, but they are trying to do it and the SC Vets are getting screwed.

An Angry Packo


Gimpy and Andy are right.

PS If I was a NSC vet in line ahead of a SC Vet, I would be embarrassed as hell. Now, we can ALL wait at the DMV or the Piggly Wiggly together, but at the VA, we should rule.

[David]

Andy while I agree disabled veterans should always come first I think what we have here would be an example of an anti-socialist system. In a socialist system everyone is treated equal ("all men are created equal", I read that somewhere) whereas in an anti-socialist (read democratic/capitalistic) system people are promised the same thing and then when it does not pan out are often turned against one another rather then the rulers BY THE RULERS. Another fine example of this is the continuing racism problem and how it relates to entry into colleges. I cannot count the number of times I have heard people complain there is no room for a white guy in school anymore but if they were just black or Hispanic it's a free ride. This may mean nothing to many people out there but it matters to the people living in an area like the one I do were every year they have to invent new reasons to deny people entry to college because they have too many applications to process.

Divide and conquer. Social engineering 101
Here is a breakdown of how it works:

1. Tops Dog recognize problem (vets benefits, school overcrowding, everyone is on strike etc etc etc) and sees people are about to organize to take them to task for it. I mean REALLY organize. Think back to the womens suffrage, labor, and racial equality movements, not the half assed movements of today.

2. Develop a program to seemingly correct the problem before the crowd turns it's considerable focus upon you (to retain membership in the good old boys club make sure the solution is not going to cost anything more then current operation does now by underfunding it, raising taxes, bringing in other starving workers to replace those starving that left on strike etc etc etc)

3. When the people realize the fix applied is coming apart at the seams and the inevitable outcry is raised sit back, rake in the cash and let human nature take it's course (here the game gets dirty, as if it weren't enough so already. Human nature is an open book. Greed, avarice and slothfulness plague it like a dark cloud on a sunny day. There is no doubt 99.9% of the time the closest target that APPEARS to be the problem will be attacked with gusto due to the above mentioned flaws every man harbors no matter how noble they appear to be to those around them)

4. Wash, rinse, repeat. Hey it has worked for years why not keep at it.

Congratulations (insert congressman, mr. president, senator, governer etc etc etc here) no one is really breathing down your neck, you have made a bundle of cash, you have persuaded 90% of the population that you care about more then 1% of the population as more then cheap labor. Oh, and by the way, that crowd in the street is going over to the factory, hospital, college to lynch their own brothers over this situation. Well played sir!

Veterans by their very nature (independent/proud/strong minded) are an easy group upon which to apply social engineering. Looks like they have done it again and it is sad to see people falling into line for it.

The moral of the story is stand by your brother and attack the real problem because if you don't you have already lost the fight before it has begun.

[Gimpy]

But you're DEAD wrong about ME not wanting "stand by my brother"---Hell, Ive been doing that for YEARS now. But, when you have veterans like "Tamora" who make statements like, and I quote, "I do NOT have any service connected disability but so what!"---You see my friend, it's just such selfish, gimme-all-I-can-get and to HELL with everyone else attitudes exhibited by veterans such as this which screws the rest of us. Until we can get ALL veterans on the same page and WILLING to write LETTERS, E-mails, etc. to their Congressmen, Senators, the President, local TV stations, National news media, newspapers and attend local & nationwide protest rallys, stand outside in the cold, the sun and rain & snow to hold up signs of protest. Educate themselves in the FULL range of inappropiate and less than adequate functions of the so-called VA system, we'll CONTINUE to have veterans like "Tamora" who will say, and again I quote, "What's the difference"---and THAT'S what REALLY PI$$E$ ME OFF!!!

Packo & Andy----thanks my brothers for REALLY understanding where and what the "problems" really are!

[David]

Over six months ago I built a sister website, http://www.libertyfiles.com , to help organize just such efforts. Despite my best efforts to get the word out, to this date only one veteran has used it. You are right Gimpy, we need to work together.

[phuloi]

First,let me say that I believe my situation to be an exception rather than the rule,but at Seattle (American Lake) VAMC my treatment seems to be far superior to that of many of you.Luck of the draw,I guess.My meds are always mailed to me on a timely basis so I`ve never encountered a line at the pharamacy or any where else at the medical center.They have a take a # system at the lab and depending on the time of day,you might have to wait 15 min.or so to get blood drawn.I listen to vets in my area bitching and moaning about 'Havin to go to the VA' all the time and you guys always come to mind.These people have got it made compared to all of you.

Now,I haven`t said this to piss you guys off...at least not at me,or at Tamaroa,but your anger should mabe be directed at the Regional Director of your VAMC.Correct me if I`m wrong,but isn`t the same VA that provides me with excellent medical treatment here in Washington giving you shitty treatment? I don`t know how the beaurocracy works,but I would ASS-u-me that funding is provided to the regions according to what the Director requests.So,Gimpy,sharpen up that old #2 and fire off some letters to the director of your region.

I agree that service connected vets should get top billing and should NOT have to wait in line at a VAMC-anywhere.In fact,I don`t think we should have to wait in line at Piggly Wiggly either!When VA opened it`s medical facilities to everyone I thought the end was in sight,and perhaps it is.I feel blessed to live where I do and have the coverage and treatment provided me and Kati.If there is anything that I can do to help any of you to bring your VAMC up to par,let me know.I would honored to assist.

[Arrow]

If I am able to determine the enemy's dispositions while at the same time I conceal my own then I can concentrate and he must divide. And if I concentrate while he divides, I can use my entire strength to attack a fraction of his. There, I will be numerically superior. Then, if I am able to use many to strike few at the selected points, those I deal with will be in dire straits. Sun Tzu, The Art of War, Chapter six. Weaknesses and strengths, number 13.


David is right it's all about divide and conquer.

Works everytime.

[ArtySgt]

Some very good points brought up here, but I am a combat wounded vet and I agree with Paco, Andy and Gimpy. They have said it all better then I can.

[Tamaroa]

Now you're stepping on my toes Gimpy which i do not appreciate. To begin with at least spell my name right T-a-m-a-r-o-a. Now that we have that straight, nowhere did I say give me all I can get!!! I want what is due me by law, nothing more and nothing less. To date, all I have asked for and received was vision benefits. I asked for them because the VA told me I was eligible. That's it. end of story.

If you bothered to read what I wrote you will also note that I said and i quote:

Quote
===============

"We are all vets and should be accorded the same benefits. Granted those with service connected disabilities or MOH winners should and do have a bigger piece of the pie, but as I said before -- If I am entitled to a benefit, I will apply for it. I am sorry if you have a problem with that. "
==========================
Unquote

I surely do believe those with service connected disabilities should come first, I challenge you to find where I said they did not!

And I also ask you this. If the government came to you and asked you if you would like additional benefits since you were a veteran, would you refuse? If you say yes then I guess I'll have to put you on a pedestal next to Moses.

Bill

[Andy]

Sorry Dave, I could not disagree more. The ?All men (people) are created equal? is not socialism. It was intended to mean the son is not guilty of the sins of the father. We are created equal, more or less. However if we become damaged goods as a result of service to our nation then the nation has a moral and ethical obligation to provide for those individuals. Those who are damaged usually can not have the damage undone, thus some compensation in the form of a small amount of money, medical treatment, etc. is not only right, it is just. To afford equal treatment to all, regardless of whether they were damaged or not is socialism, pure and simple.

My ideas on social engineering are a little different than yours. In large part shaped by books such as; The Federalist Papers: The Republic of Plato: Crime, Power, and Morality by Stuart Hills: The Prince by Machiavelli: Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler: Voices of Protest by Alan Brinkley: Class, State and Crime by McKay: The Manifesto of the Communist Party by Karl Marx: Generation of Swine by Hunter Thompson: The Division of Labor in Society by Emile Durkheim: P.J. O?Rourke?s books, Eat The Rich and Parliament Of Whores. There are of course other books on the subject, but each of those mentioned are here in my den. Social engineering would seem to follow the line that everyone is given certain expectations which the government says we will strive for but, in fact, will never accomplish. When society is engineered it?s usually to say you must sacrifice for the good of the government but we'll give you all the crumbs we can.

This all vets are equal sounds like a government saying, ?Drinks are on the house.? A very short term feel good for some but in the long term it benefits no one, not even the damn politicians. Actually it sounds a little like the book Animal Farm - ?Four legs good, Two legs bad!?

200 years ago a philosopher named Jeremy Bentham said that every government institution should be reviewed ever 5 years. If it is not doing what it was intended to, it should be abolished and a new institution should be created to do the maximum good for the original intent. Old Jerry may have been on to something.
(Maybe someone in D.C. thought this would be a divide and conquor thing but I think it was just a warm and fuzzy idea to get votes that wasn't thought all the way through.)
Stay healthy,
Andy
PS: EVERYONE should read Parliment of Whores, best Civics book ever.

[David]

Thank you for the reply Andy. It shows a lot of wisdom on these matters. I still have a lot to learn I just hate to see veterans go after each other when we need to stand together.

[Tamaroa]

Agreed David!!!

Bill

[bbeil]

I am for all veterans getting all they can get from the the VA! The simple reason is: They will not give you anything they don't have to give you.

[Keith_Hixson]

Point one: that everyone agrees one:
Combat injured Veterans have a special preference for medical
treatment.

Point two: service connected injuries should also have a special
preference, combat rated or not.

Point three: Career service men/women should receive what
was promised to them for being career military and therefore
should have special preference.

The above three points should not have to wait but receive
immediate attention when it comes to meeting their medical
needs.

Point four: Other veterans should be able to receive what the
the government will allow them to receive because they also
served their country in the military.

So what is the problem: The problem seems to be that non service oriented injuries or illnesses are being treated and keeping the those with priorities waiting. That is wrong and should not be and I believe we all agree on that.

I see nothing wrong with veterans without service related injuries or those who are not career military taking advantage of the VA services if the Federal Goverment allows. However, they must understand there will be waiting lines. However, they are tax payers, they are veterans and if the law allows they should be allowed to take advantage of those benefits.

I do have a problem with the rich being singled out. If they served, if they pay their taxes and meet the criteria for benefits let them stand in line and also receive, it doesn't bother me in the least. I am not rich (actually poor by most standards) but I must be careful of not resenting the rich, especially if they meet the criteria. However if they are taking away from the immediate treatment of the more deserving I can fully understand ones frustration.

Keith

[Andy]

Dave: I came back to the site this evening and re-read the entire thread. Came across in my last post as being pompous, sorry bout that. I willingly admit the world is full of things, about which I know absolutely nothing. Plus I?ve forgotten a lot! I do respect your opinion, unfortunately sometimes one of us goes on a rant.

Tamaroa: When many of us used to be on the Other site my user name was Andrzejczyk. If you feel bad about the misspelling I?d be happy to e-mail you 20 or 30 of the different misspellings I was called. (Please don?t feel lonely.)

Keith: Here we were having a perfectly good argument, something I enjoy, and you go and put everything into perfect perspective, probably took all the wind out of most everyone?s sails. One of my many doctors says it?s much better for me to argue on the internet than to keep shooting my neighbors, some of whom were also his patients. Now I?m going to need more of your counseling, AGAIN.

One last point, this thread is on a vets site, under the broad heading of Vietnam War. I consider most of you family. If someone on the street said all veterans should not be allowed a break on meds or whatever there would be an argument. I would be standing up for all vets and their families. But among ourselves we SHOULD vent, debate, argue and expose our ideas to others of our own ilk. Someone famous once said, ?If two people agree on everything, there is no reason for one of them to exist.?

Has this been mentioned before? Should the military and/or VA pay for abortions???

Stay healthy,
Andy

[phuloi]

I`m OUT

[Keith_Hixson]

Abortions
You didn't need to bring in that subject.

That brings in personal opinions galore. Discussions on morals and ethics from all angles.

And lastly the great question of all,
Why don't many Catholics in Massachusettes obey the Pope?
(You have to have lived in Massachusettes to tackle that one.)

So, for the moment I'll withdraw and take a big breath.

I remember one time that when I was mayor that the Police Chief and I got into knock down, drag out argument on some policy issues. Now the Chief was a good guy and my friend. Well, after the meeting Bill and I went out to a local resturant and had coffee and pie. One of the city council members saw Bill and I socialing after such an emotional confrontation. He had assumed (wrongly) that we were enemies. Bill and may not of agreed on everything but we greatly respected each other. He was over all a good Police Chief (Liked to spend too much on them there police gagets) and we remain friends even today. But, just because one doesn't totally agree doesn't mean we can't respect them as a human being. As Andy Quoted:

"If two people agree on everything then one isn't needed."

Keith ;)

Abortions? Andy you love an argument don't you?

[xgrunt]

have stated catagories for priority treatment. Cat One is for 50% sevice-connected vets and higher,Cat Two 30%-to 50% etc. By the way POW's are now in Cat 3. Back when the VA had purple cards for service connected vets and blue for non-service connected cards, I used to move my purple card ahead of any blue ones as that was the way the system was made to run. But now as the Gimpmiester stated we have these well off vets using the system solely for the purpose of cheap prescriptions, that might be legal but it is ethically wrong. I supported opening the VAMC's to non-service connected vets under certain income levels, as I see it as a safety net for fellow vets who CAN'T afford alternative care. But as a 100%service connected vet who had to wait 6-8 months for appts. to specality clinics I stand with Gimpy. I have no medical insurence . I have medicare because I am also totally disabled under Social Security, but even with that, on a fixed income I have to save Medicare for emergencys where I can't get to the local VAMC in time. I have sat in too many waiting rooms at the VA listening to vets talking about how they're getting over on the system with free care when they have alternative sources for care that I have lost any sympathy for as Robert Earl Keen called them in a song"them fine haired sons-of bitchs". Kudos to you Gimpy, I wish I had been in line with you as those two would have gotten the sermon in STEREO. xgrunt :d:

[RobH]

I had a purple card....still have it, but would have to really search to find it.

They gave it to me back in 71' when I got out the first time......and the only thing I did was file it away.

The second time I got out they gave me another one...... why I have really no clue....except that they said I had a 0% service connected disability for scars on my body due to two major surgeries - gall bladder and appendix. What in the hell is a ZERO PER CENT DISABILITY???!!! To me that means that I am NOT disabled and not entitled to squat.

I always believed that since I came home and got out of the service without disabling wounds or diseases....there was no reason for me to use the VA Medical System of Clinics. I got my teeth cleaned, didn't need glasses and that was the last of it.

I did not try to use the VA clinics because I didn't think I had a right to. I know the card said I did.....but dagnabbit, I could afford to pay my way, and I had insurance as I have it today. In fact my current health insurance plan meds coverage is better than the VA's.... And I did not get wounded, inured, or ill in a disabling manner.

I thank God for my longevity and health, and I know I am no better than anyone else, but for me not using the VAMC's was an ethical and moral decision. If I went in and took up space and time from another Veteran with a real Service Connected Disability...... it was as if I was being a thief. I have no right to deny a Veteran who deserves and needs the help far far more than I do.

I won't criticize anyone who uses the system as it is. Who knows.....in a couple of years, months or even days.....if I lose my insurance, job and well being.....I may be forced to go for whatever I can get as well. But in the meantime.......I will hold out and go it on my own and leave a seat open for the guys who truly need the care.

I won't get started on the "get-over-on-the-system-boys"......thats a class of people I don't care for....entitlements or not

:d: :d: :d: :d:

[xgrunt]

0% rating basically means that you have a service connected condition but that it does not impair your health/physical activity to any degree. If the operations were done in service they are considered service connected in case of problems from them later in life.

[Tamaroa]

About two or three years ago, a close friend of mine who was a combat vet in Nam and wounded there (10 years in the army) came to me and said to come with him, he was going to the local Presbyterian church to register for benefits. He said bring your DD214. I asked why, he said he had been called and now all vets are being covered to varying degrees by a universal health care system. I figured what the heck, I'll check it out. I went down to find out that since I was employed and covered by a current plan I was not eligible for much of the new plan.

However, I was encouraged to make an appointment for an eye exam and I was also encouraged to use their prescription plan. The eye plan is the only thing I used since 57.50 for glasses and an exam is considerably less than the 300 or so I would have paid otherwise ( my health plan does not cover vision). At the time I went down, prescriptions were 2.00 copay and mine was 5.00. To me it was not worth the hassle of making appointments months in advance to save 3.00 per. Now someone has pointed out that the copay is 7.00. My copay is now 15.00. It is still not worth the hassle because I still have to make appointments long in advance and 8 dollars is not that big a deal. But next year, I will make an appointment for another vision test and another pair of glasses if needed because I do not have that benefit with my current plan. Just a few weeks ago, I received another notice from the VA reminding me of the services offered because I haven't used anything but the vision plan two summers ago. Now mind you, they have all my records, they know I have a health plan, they know I work. While I was registering they even asked us to spread the word to other vets about the veteran's health care card. So I have been doing that.

Once I retire though, If I need the plan and if it is still available to me, yes I will use it. I have no pension plan and with my 401K being destroyed by the current imbecility of the stock market, in all liklihood i will need assistance.

In the interest of harmony, I will say no more. David is correct, I think regarding the divide and conquer strategy. It certainly worked here. At David's implied request to us the matter is concluded by me.

Bill

[Arrow]

Did anyone listen to the good advice and common sense of our brother Griz? It would seem to me a productive place to start to execute change. Just wondering.

[Gimpy]

Griz, and Keith, and Andy, and XGrunt and David, and Sparrow, and Paco, and Rob H, and etc., and etc,----and they ALL have good points. I sincerely believe eveyone has put forth some good information as well as some sound advice.

I ALSO haven't heard much in the way of Tamaroa truly comprehending that--no MATTER WHAT or WHO---the combat wounded, service-connected disabled veterans should NOT have to wait in line behind him for his "glasses" or anything else! THERE IS A FREAKIN DIFFERENCE!!!

And, you're DAMN RIGHT you can go ahead a put me up there with "Moses" if you want to------cause there's NO DAMN WAY I WOULD ACCEPT ANY BENEFITS IF IT WERE TO THE DETRIMENT OF, OR ANYWAY HARMED THE ABILITY OF A COMBAT WOUNDED VETERAN TO RECEIVE THEIRS !!!!!!!!


NUFF SAID!

CEPT---

[Gimpy]

I sendin 50 cents rather than a quarter! It looks you STILL need to go and buy yourself a couple of "clues"----cause you're STILL "clueless" in my book!

Your vindictiveness and selfishness is showing when YOU say, "I do NOT have a service connected disability but so what?" And, "I will take advantage of anything the government throws my way".

Now these are YOUR WORDS---not MINE!

[RobH]

xgrunt.....Thanks for the info. I know know what the 0% means. Hopefully I will never have to use it. I much prefer having SC Vets getting the care they need.....and I will probably use my health insurance instead...barring that I fall on hard times.

Gimpy, I understand what Tamaroa is saying.... and I don't think he is abusing the system....he was asked to participate and he did. I have to admit, since I wear glasses as well....the free glasses are appealing, and $57.50 is a lot less than the $300.00 plus that I paid for my last pair...which comes out of my pocket since we have no vision coverage. But at present, I have my 2 pair and have no need for more.

[Tamaroa]

Mr. Gimpy,


I do have a clue by the way, keep your quarter. If your beef is waiting in line for a benefit for service connected disabilities, I concur that those with SCD should go first. It seems natural, does it not?

If you want to continue this verbal combat on another venue, be my guest. However, going forward, I choose to remain silent on this board regarding this particular subject since David would like a more harmonious outcome. Its his board I respect his wishes.

Bill

[SEATJERKER]

...Privacy is an issue here that no one has brought up,...
...having been in the Va. hospitals, and kinda know the system, I ask, outside of seeing personal hats with honors on them, how does the Va. document, or schedule, "by treatment of the illness at hand/being presented", "or in need of a "major"...But...Do they use the catagory's properly,...I guess the Va. up here does move more efficiently in some ways, I haven't seen the people grumbling over issues directly related to long waits for appointments...
point...not having been under continious care for other then the head, maybe I can't give a quality assessment, but keith said it in easy simple terms...
...combat wounded, no doubt first...
...SC, no doubt,....
..."dependent care??/ ...
...how bout " just a plain ole veteran", where should he/she be ranked, all equal I say, sure CW anything takes preference over eyeglasses, but it's apples, and oranges, and all, and all, those that do work in the Va. do know the difference with who their working with, and special care is administered by the individual, not the walls they are within'...
...I believe that they do prioritize the best they can, but isn't any "pharmecy line all the same", just by the order they come in???///as far as her driving up in the Benz, they earned it, or they stole it, I don't think I'd drive one if you was to give me one, I like trucks, and you can't put no 2x6's in um, maybe hit the lottery, but their "conviction of earning Va. care by fullfilling his/her hitch way back when, and with the costs of "meds" now, I know the Va encouraged "signing up as my father goes to the Va. now when he never did before, he earned it...
...I've had two surgerys that have both torn out, but the always smile...
...this is where were supposed to "come together" , and try to make positive suggestions in which to solve the problem, then forward them in a professional manner to the "powers that be", and try to change it to a better one, right...
...Have a cold one, and think up ways to make "it" work the right way,"THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT"......................

[Gimpy]

I fully understand the reasoning behind ANY veteran attempting to save some $$$$ on a pair of glasses, prescription drugs or ANYthing the VA has to offer them in the way of benefits they're eligible for.

What REALLY pi$$e$ me off is the attitude a lot of these folks and some of their spouses demonstrate when they come around for their little money saving trips to the VA! That, AND the fact that probably 90% or more of them don't have a GD clue HOW these benefits were WON for them by guys and gals in the service organizations working their A$$E$ OFF for YEARS to make sure they and other deserving vets are treated fairly.

They'll sit back in their recliner chairs on their LAZY A$$ES complaining how BAD the government has "treated" them and not even ATTEMPT to do anything constructive to help with the battle to see we're dealt with fairly.

No, but they'll sure as HELL take the "benefits" and RUN with statements like "I do NOT have a service connected disability, but SO WHAT", or "I'll take advantage of anything the government THROWS MY WAY"!

This type of attitude is why the veterans community is in the dire straights that we're in! That's what I meant when refering to Tamaroa and that "gimme all I can get attitude". Not ONE single thought of WHO or HOW MANY and HOW LONG the folks "in the damn trenches" fighting the VA, Congress and the Whitehouse probably ever crossed his mind when he said, "yeah, that'll be nice, now I can go get me some cheap glasses". All the freakin "lip service" some folks give about being a TRUE PATRIOT and how some folks "appreciate" what their "government" is "giving" for them is no more than just a bunch of pure horse-$hit in MY book!

WHAT the HELL ARE WE DOING to make sure these benefits and medical care are continued AND improved upon---TODAY, TOMMORROW, and ALL THE DAYS AFTERWARD!!!!

Well, I'll tell you and everyone else something my friend (you're probably distinctly aware of this, unlike evidently some others are). But, the folks that fought and shed blood to defend the "rights" of other vets to be "awarded" (nobody EVER gave me a thing from my government) these "EARNED" benefits and medical care ARE STILL fighting the continuing BATTLES for THEM!!!

And, you can bet your a$$ that they're just as PI$$ED as I am with the lack of support and condescending behavior some folks show when spouting off about "T-H-E-I-R benefits".

The "obligation" to our fellow comrades in arms didn't END when we took off that damn uniform. Maybe in SOMEONES mind the "obligation" to "serve our country did", but hopefully NOT in a lot of us!

Sorry, but I'm not pi$$ed off at you, just needed to "clear the air" a little.

[Arrow]

Gimpy I'm sorry your so upset. Please try to calm down brother it's not good for your heart. Thank you for being on the front lines for us for so long. Now let me go to sleep without worrying about you and promise me that you will do something to slow your heart rate and lower your blood pressure k..? little sparrow aka unqualified medic...

[xgrunt]

reading yout original letter only makes me what to sing"Can I Get A witness" :xx:

[RobH]

No offense taken. And I do truly understand where you are coming from, and what your complaints are.

I come from the family of a Career Soldier who retired in Sep 60' after fighting in WWII, landing at Normandy, and later fighting in the Korean War. He started out as enlisted and worked his way up...was Infantry and later Artillery... a Ranger, Airborne, and Nuclear. He has caught the shaft like so many others after he retired. He retired here in FL...in Orlando so he could be close to the facilities they promised he could use....then they closed them. The VA clinic in Orlando was very small, though he seldom ever went....he was wounded twice in the wars. But he has always been frustrated at how the system has worked and the fact that it has not properly cared for the people it was intended to serve. So even though I have never used the VA system.....I am familiar with the frustrations of those it is supposed to serve.

In so far as I am concerned, American War Veterans, followed by all other Veterans are the people this country owes an un-repayable debt of gratitude for their sacrifices and losses, and they are the people who deserve respect at all times.

Our government and the system as well as the people on the street haven't the clues..... In peace time....we are the "detritus", the left over trash that many can't sweep under the carpet....like many PC types wish they could. But the minute the "proverbial poop hits the fan" we are again "in vogue" and entirely popular as well as in demand.......

Enough preaching to the choir......

I too resent those with wealth who abuse the system to save a couple bucks then have the timerity and gall to bitch about having to wait for a few minutes or even an hour to get their meds. I wonder when the last time was they were in Wally World, Eckerds, or any other drug store.....takes just as long if not longer.......

But my personal feeling has been that as long as I can afford to carry my own weight and have insurance......I will continue paying my own way....just so I don't clog or slow down the system and prevent a far needier Vet from getting the care that he needs. For me, being an obstacle is a moral and ethical crime I am not prepared to commit.

Please feel free to "vent" as it can be very cathartic....as well as good for the soul....but do watch the blood pressure my friend...we are now of the age where we must be careful as we no longer heal as we did in our youth. I take no offense or umbrage at your statements....as I understand and agree.

[xgrunt]

you have said in a earlier post that your Pension Plan tanked[I wonder what fired CEO is using that money to build his new mansion?] and your 401K basically rolled over--- and played dead. So when the time comes and you need the VA for you health care, well bro, I'll save ya a seat in the waiting room with me. And any info I know that can help cut thru the BS as quickly as posssible. Frank [xgrunt] :cl: :xx:

[RobH]

Actually...I can't remember saying that.....but in the event the market keeps heading south :md: :d: :d: I'll be more than happy to accept your most gracious offer of help and advice.

My retirement fund has always been self-managed...never did trust CEO's who were eager to keep your earnings in "their 401K plan"......that they perpetually borrowed from and never repayed and bailed out on......

But at the present time....a couple of my funds aren't doing so well, but I'm not ready to retire just yet....and wonder when I might..... I guess it will be a little while yet :cd: .

But as I said previously, Thank You for your gracious offer of a seat, advice, and guidance through the VA maze........!!

[Keith_Hixson]

In the spring of 1953 my foster brother came home from Korea. He had served in the Navy (sea bee) in WW II. When Korea came along he joined the Army and served in combat in Korea.
He was on the farm working, it was haying time and we stack the bails in hay stacks between 20 - 30 ft high. He slipped (a hay hook came loose and he had his back to the edge) and fell 25 ft and landed on his back. He broke his back in the lumbar region and was paralyzed from his waist on down for the rest of his life.

Being a low income rural family we didn't have the money for all the medical attention he needed over the years. He was still on active duty (he had planned to make a career of the military). When they took him to the hospital he was immediately transfered to the local VA Hospital in Walla Walla, WA. From there he was transfered to the VA Hospital in Long Beach, CA.

The VA was his primary source of care for the rest of his life. He was in and out of VA hospitals until his death in 1968 of parkinson disease.

The VA was there for our family and I greatly appreciated it. My concern is this: His injuries were not service related even though he was on active duty at the time of his injuries, he had served honorably in two wars, were would he fit into this argument, since his injuries weren't service connected? :cd:

Keith

[Tamaroa]

Keith, my thought that since the government was his employer at the time of the accident, he held insurance with the employer therefore he should be covered. I work for a real estate firm through which I have medical and disability insurance. If I get injured off the job, disability still kicks in for me. I think it would be/should be the same in today's climate.

But I have another question. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would appreciate it. Suppose you are discharged with a service connected disability. You are now entitled to VA benefits beyond the norm. You get a disability check as well. Suppose over time, your disability is either corrected 100% by surgery or it heals naturally whatever the case may be. Is that individual subject to periodic review boards to determine whether or not they are still disabled to the extent they were at time of discharge? If review boards exist and the disability disappears or becomes minimal will the VA make any adjustments to the check or benefits?

Just curious.

Thanks,

Bill

[Arrow]

They will not only review but as in Andy's case they might take your check even though you have a cancer that is deemed incurable. The discussion has been on going if you look in the Veterans Benefit/concern folders.

[Tamaroa]

Thanks,

I'll look up the thread.

Bill

[Packo]

He was intitled because the injury was service connected since it happened while he was still on active duty. Being paralyzed he would have either been given a medical discharge or medical retirement. Not sure and what the rules are on that....think it has to do with how many years service you have.

Tamora,

Most SC injuries, whatever, are not 100% reversible so they may drop your % rate but can never take it past 0%. So, once you have one, you've got it in one way, percentage, or another until you croak. Once you've been rated at a certain % for ten years, it can never go below that no matter what. So, for example, my hip. Carried a 50% disability for over 10 years on that. I am currently at 70%. The VA could, and probably will, try to drop me back to 50 but they can never go below that due to the 10 year thing. I filed for another upgrade since the third operation, 2 in less than 90 days due to a VA screw up, to try and get it to 90 which is as high as a hip can go. There is no 100% for a hip unless you are deemed unemployable. Anyway, the reason I did this is two fold: 1. Cause even with the great Doc I had, civilian, for the last operation, I'm sadly still having problems and should warrant another increase. 2. As Andy said, it's a pre-emptive strike. I know they will try and drop me from the 70 to 50 cause' that's the way they operate, so I figured if I get it to 90 they will drop it to 70. Then I'll appeal and try to get it to 90, but will at least have gotten them to agree on 70. These are the games we must play with these people because they spend a bunch of time trying to screw us so you've got to stay one step ahead of them.

Sorry it got long....hope it helps.

Paco

[Tamaroa]

jeez, some of these are horror stories. I knew the VA was a little screwy regarding bureacracy because of some of the issues with my Dad, but these stories make you really wonder where they are coming from.

Bill

[Stick]

Let?s get real and stop the quibbling. Due to my recent go-around with the VA I'm a little biased but I?ll get over it. It?s the bureaucrats in DC that can?t figure out what is right. They sit on either side of the aisle and point their weaponry at the other side and accomplish nothing. WE?RE BETTER THAN THAT!

If you or I are sitting in a waiting room at the VA and someone comes in dangerously close to loosing his life, you betcha, we?ll wait a little longer because it?s the right thing to do. It seems to me that all that is needed is a little common sense as far as patient care at the VA. If a service-connected Vet is in need of care then he or she should have priority over the guy who is just a vet in need of a Kleenex for his snotty nose because he can go to the VA, he?s entitled by law, doncha know?

The VA just does not take a look at their primary mission, which is to take care of the service-connected Vet. And if a service-connected vet calls in and says that he needs help then he damn well better be seen before the guy with the stubbed toe. And the Service-connected Vet has every right to be pissed off if he has to wait on a non-service-connected snotty nose.

Henry Ford said, ?Find out what is right, then do it.? It?s just that easy brothers and sisters.

[Keith_Hixson]

Paco (Tom)
He had about six years in when the accident happened. I know he received 100% disability and was in and out of the VA Hospitals until he died.

I guess my concern with all this Is: Over correction will lead to some deserving not getting what they deserve. It must be done carefully and slowly.

Keith

[billr]

I'd like to make a little correction to what Paco posted regarding having a disability rating for 10 years. Its called the 10 and 20 year rule.
10 year protection means that service connection for any disability which has been in effect for 10 or more years will not be severed unless it was based on fraud.
20 year protection means that a disability which has been continuously evaluated for 20 or more years will not be reduced unless the original rating was based on fraud.

[Packo]

Thanks for the correction. Does that mean that even if you carry a certain percentage for 10 years or more they can drop you below that percentage, if not fraud? Not worrying about the fraud part but was my understanding,"ass-u-me", that mine could never go below 50 due to 10+ years. Not worried, just interested and want to be able to give my patients the correct info.

Thanks

Packman

[Packo]

this move to the top? Needed to get an answer from billr.

Pak

[billr]

Paco

That's correct. Unless the disability rating has been in effect for 20 years, it can be reduced if the condition shows improvement. It doesn't happen very often (Andy's case excluded) but it can happen.
As a County Veterans Service Officer, when someone comes in and asks to have their disability reevaluated for a possibly higher rating, I always inform them that there is the possibility it could actually be reduced if the evidence indicates the condition has improved.

38 CFR, Section 3.951(b)
A disability which has been continuously rated at or above any
evaluation of disability for 20 or more years for compensation purposes under laws administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs will not be reduced to less than such evaluation except upon a showing that such rating was based on fraud. Likewise, a rating of permanent total disability for pension purposes which has been in force for 20 or more years will not be reduced except upon a showing that the rating was based on fraud. The 20-year period will be computed from the effective
date of the evaluation to the effective date of reduction of evaluation.

[Andy]

Nope, my case fits in quite nicely with the VA procedures. Cancer 97, made the claim in 99, got it in 99, got a review in 01, then a review and "reduction" in 02. Plus I never got that tag line - perminate. I totally expected a review, kept telling doctors about procedures that they were not familiar with. Besides, not worried about the 10 year thing, that doesn't seem to be in the cards, unless I hook an inside straight.
(The 20% combat injuries the VA gave me in 1970, that seems safe. Never had a review on PTSD from 94 however I'll bet they think {and with good reason} that I'm a lot more nuts the 30%.)

Stay healthy,
Andy

[billr]

Andy

Your case is a little different. The VA's Rating Schedule calls for NHL to be rated at 100% "with active disease or during a treatment phase". "The 100% rating shall continue beyond the cessation of any surgical, radiation, antineoplastic chemotherapy or other therapeutic procedures. 6 months after the discontinuance of treatment the appropriate disability rating shall be determined by MANDATORY VA exam. If there has been no local recurrence or metastasis they rate on the residuals." The residuals are generally rated under Anemia or Aplastic Anemia

That's the way its supposed to work. The way it usually works is the six months are up, they propose to reduce, then schedule the exam. By the time the exam is conducted they have already done the reduction. Bass-ackwards.

As long as you're receiving treatment for the condition, its supposed to be rated at 100%.

I think I mentioned to you over on the other site that you might want to have your other conditions re-evaluated for possible increases. It might be enough to get you back to 100% or high enough to qualify for Individual Unemployability. (1 condition rated at 60% or a combined 70% with 1 rated at least 40%).

[Andy]

Can't believe that's you and I didn't recognize you, HI. They gave me (maybe I earned) the unemployable - no doubt due to a lot of folks helping out. Thanks again to a lot of you, prayers help. Have another question for you, oh sage.

What if a year from now they say my cancer hasn't been treated in 6 months and they pull the, 100% cancer is now 0%. Would that take away my unemployable? In 4 1/2 years I've had 5 chemotherapies or designer forms of same, however it's "possible" I could go 18 months before I need to go through that again. Is that fight, unemployable over yet?

BTW: I have filed a claim for my left eye. Now getting 10% for 25% loss of vision (frag injury), however it's now 40% total loss of vision and the rest of the eye is 20/200, not correctable. (That change took place during this April-May.) The cancer doctor says there's cause and effect from the cancer and/or treatments. The VA eye doctor says it was to be expected and could have happened 30 years ago. I filed as a battle injury, should it be a cancer injury or would two claims for the same injury be the way to go? This is really nonesense!

Also, I'm sure Doc Fred, Seatjerker and Paco would agree I could get more than 30% PTSD but I can't file for that. If I did, in this state, I loose my right to have firearms. I still have "friends" getting out of jail and sort of like having a weapon or two around the house. Not doubt you understand.

Is there a form for: You guys broke my little old body, now do something? ;)

Stay healthy,
Andy
PS: I could have PMed you with this but others may at some point find they are in a similar situation. God, I hope not too similar.
PPS: Metastasis is a bad word. It means the cancer moved from one place to another. Mine has moved from the Lymph nodes to the bone marrow. If it metastasis' again, 99% chance it will be Leukemia. At that point no more problems with the VA, it's time to pull the pin. But it is comforting to know the VA will come thru with the dollars.

[billr]

Andy

Yeah, its me. I've just sorta been reading the posts and enjoying the banter back and forth. I tend to just wait until an issue comes up that I might be able to shed a little light on before I'll post something.
If they have granted you the I.U. then you evidently have met the requirements that I mentioned earlier. If you do stop treatment for the NHL and 6 months later they reduce the rating for NHL, chances are you will still receive the ocmpensation at the 100% rate based on the I.U.
A big question is whether or not they have informed you that your dependents are eligible for Chapter 35 Education Benefits. If they have, then they consider your disabilities to be Permanent and Total and a reduction is extremely unlikely. Generally, the only time you get reduced from I.U. is if you go back to work, and it does happen. As a matter of fact I was just looking at the case of a vet that was getting the 100% rate for I.U. and wss working full time all the while he was collecting. VA did a match with the IRS and found out. Not only did they reduce him but he wound up owing the VA over $102,000
With regards to the claim for your eye injury, you can't file 2 claims for the same disability. At this point the issue really isn't how you got the disability, but the severity of the disability. Ratings for loss of visual acuity are pretty technical and since I'm posting this from home and not my office I don't have the reference material to try and guess what the new rating might be.

Take care of yourself. And if you or anyone else need some advise/info on subjects like this just let me know.

Bill R.

[Packo]

As always, thanks for the great information. Unlike Andrew, I remembered you and knew when you replied that I had the straight skinny. Thanks again for all you do!

Packo

[Gimpy]

I knew it was you also bill. But, as Paco and Andy have said. It's good to see you "hangin around" again and we are very fortunate to have your knowledge and wisdom to draw from once again.

Thanks,