Thank you Australia

[sfc_darrel]

Down Under Comes Through
The past couple of days, the American press has been filled with reports about French and German hand-wringing over Iraq. We'll get to that in a moment, but first we'd like to tip our hat to a real ally. Australia has deployed a transport carrier to the Persian Gulf "in preparation for a possible war against Iraq," reports the Melbourne Age. Prime Minister John Howard made a speech to the troops:

I believe that it is right for the international community to try to disarm Iraq. I believe that if the international community balked at that task, if it walks away from it, if it gives up because it is too hard, Iraq will not oblige by giving up her weapons of mass destruction. She will be emboldened not only to retain them but to also expand them. And the example of that successful defiance will be copied by other countries and we will increasingly live in a world where a growing number of rogue states possess weapons that could do enormous damage not only to their neighbours but to the broader community.
Opinion Journal

[catman]

Welcome aborad, mates!

Trav

[SweetSue]

well I never had my doubts about Australia in the first place...

Don't talk to me about Canada though... bunch of pussies in gov't here.......

Susan
not overly proud to be a Canadian...

[Wazza]

I should have said something earlier but have decided to be more turtle in the way I respond to topics. North Korea is a far greater threat to the world than Iraq and I think the USA is heading down the path that brings nations undone. USA cannot engage both Iraq AND North Korea. The consequense of a unilateral attack on Iraq by the US is an open invitation for North Korea to take South Korea and in the process 'nuke' Japan in an action to reclaim that too. China and Russia would not interfere. China would use Korea as cannon fodder in any action against the USA.

How many members on PF believe the US Government has been open, frank and honest in relation to what information the USA has pertaining to weapons held by Iraq, Why is it only now been disclosed that military bases are exempt. The USA will not disclose what information it has. It will only try to point the inspections in the right direction. AND we will never know how that information was obtained. The USA brings down governments all around the world , friend and foe alike, to meet their survival adgenda and access to markets.

[JonVet999]

are you of the communist / socialist persuasion ?


JOn

Hogchain, MS

[Wazza]

Not in the slightest. But in saying that I feel a rampaging bull about to decend on top of me.

[janecallanan]

Please, no more rampaging bulls again! Let's try to keep our minds open, and consider the points made without getting the hackles up. Arguue the points without attacking the person. But to do that, you HAVE to consider the points!!!

[DMZ-LT]

I guess we all have opinions...... and assholes. Post away.

[Wazza]

Thanks John

Good to hear from you again. I hope you got my PM where I tried to be polite, civil and respectful of you miltiary career. I kept what I had to say out of the public arena and asked you a couple of simple questions. Why, simply because I wanted to know and I wanted your opinion. But your opinion is obviously too good for me to hear. At least your expertise in anatomy is coming to the fore and I am greatful for that. That sphincter is common to all human beings even you.

[Stick]

JonVet999,
I see that you are fairly new to the Patriotfiles and normally I send a welcome to new members when they make themselves known. You'll see it all over the site with welcomes from many, many members, welcoming new friends to the site. I have to appoligize that I haven't been on the site for a couple of days but family and obligations have precident. You obviously don't know our brother Wazz who is a very highly respected member from "down under," but let me inform you of this since it's my duty to police the area. I will not tolerate trash in my area and will promptly delete it and take whatever action necessary to assure that it doesn't happen again. DISRESPECT WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, PERIOD.
Have a nice day.

[David]

It seems to me a lot of people/nations are speaking from fear and misinformation right now on this subject. Why would the US give up it's information on these weapons and thereby the sources the information came from? I have no doubt most of the programs alluded to are controlled by only a few people in Iraq due to the nature of it's government and the disclosure of highly detailed information would lead to exposure of the informants in many cases. No one wants war but unless everyone wants the rest of the world to start looking more and more like Israel with each passing year our brother nations had better anty up and join the fight. One other point while everyone is rallying against the nation who has bailed out more nations in modern history from oblivion then any other, many of your demonstrations, railings and demands for information are being carefully orchestrated by groups sympathetic to Iraq and funded by terrorists. It is good to see Australia and Britain still standing by us despite popular opinion.

[SweetSue]

well I just can't resist, democratic socialist that I be.

In my Opinion (what one thinks; belief not so strong as knowledge; judgment) :

I respectfully suggest that the reason that Britain & Australia are still standing beside the USA is because the British Commonwealth has been where the USA is today: holding a view of a situation that others in the world fail to see or relate to. (WWII)
Britain has been in that situation itself. In fact, the country was at great risk until other countries woke up and saw the writing on the wall.
The situation today, although mostly different players in the same 'lead' roles, is so spooky.

The German role is now Iraq
The British role is now USA
The Japanese role is now N. Korea.
Not sure who is the USA role from WWII.

All the other usual players are sitting ostriches like they were before.
To me, the N.Korea war is the most uncertain. A catalyst perhaps in an uncertain outcome?

It matters to me not who has bailed who out more than someone else. To me, that is not the point. To me the point is people (the world) not seeing what is right in their faces.

I doubt that Britain nor Australia would blindly 'follow' anyone into a negative situation without some kind of firm proof.

Still the thought of war, any kind, for any reason pains me deeply.

But it does not pain me so much that I will ignore the facts of the matter (as presented or what we are 'allowed' to know) .

I desire for my children to reach maturity in this world under optimum conditions.

I just want them to live. And if that is only to happen based on the outcome of going 'to war' , then so be it.

I just want them to experience life. But life on equal terms with the rest of society in the world.
Respectfully yours,
Susan

[Keith_Hixson]

Take your pick.
Its half a dozen of one and six of the other. Both are tremendous threats to world security. Sadam Huessien will push the buttons of the world community as far as he is allowed. The same is true of North Korea. The USA can either become pro-active and try to stop war before it happens or they can become isolationist (as before WWII and WWI) and wait for war to break out before being drawn into the situation. By becoming proactive before the war begins they have taken the criticism from those in the world community whom we are trying to protect. Teddy Roosevelt was absolutely correct, "talk softly and carry a big stick." Try to talk reason but show them that you are indeed capable and willing to go to war. But, if you don't let them know you are serious about using force they will go and cause havoc . What makes me so very angry with the international community is: The U.S. is trying its best to be a peace maker and protect other peace loving countries, yet it is those very countries that criticize us the most. Sometimes I think we should just sit back and watch as Sadi Arabia, and the rest of the Middle East are conquered by Sadam, and Radical Muslims and watch it spread to the Balkans, Greece, Spain, and then finally decide they need us and ask us to intervene. Idiots! don't they realize that their own security hinges on America strength to keep the peace in the world?

Wazza,
You do have legitimate concerns! North Korea may be more of a threat than Sadam in Iraq. But, evil has to be confronted but where do we start? Time will tell.

Keith

[JonVet999]

I am just an old pig-farmer and not the sharpest tool in the shed. But I know asking a bloke about his political affiliation is hardly "trash". apparently you folk have had alot of toe-stepping-on lately. hell, if'n you don't want me to be here i sure as hell can leave....

but i don't cut and run.....ever....give me some idea of what constututes "trash and disrespect' and i will refrain... Suh.

I am a proud vet'ran from the honorable state of Mississippi and
and i will bring no disrespect this way. Anyone else here from Mississippi or general vicinity ? Any pig-farmers, catfish-grabblers,
chiltin-eaters, or possum-hunters ? Anybody want to jaw on why the South am the place to live, except now when it is 12 degrees... LOL LOL LOL

with all due respect and honor,

old Pig Jon in Mississippi

[Keith_Hixson]

I have always enjoyed good political interaction. But, to personally call another individual a derogitory name because of a different political opinion I understand will not be tolerate. We do a lot of kidding and hasseling on this site. Make sure everyone knows you are just joshing around by posting a grin or smile. That way you can avoid hurt feelings. I love to hassel and kid but I don't think I've ever offended anyone. We can talk serious political differences and still respect each other as individuals. I remember when I was in college that we were taught that the lowest form of debate is abusive attacks. That occurrs when one runs out of legitimate arguements. The other night on the news I heard a young liberal attacking President Bush. He called him all kinds of names, attacked his IQ and how he got into college, etc. But, he never once made a worthy point on his policies. That is an abusive attack, which means he had nothing to complain about so he was reduced to attacking the individual. In other words he should have got an F in debate.
Keep it clean, respect the views of others even though you may disagree. Don't ever call someone dumb or stupid even though you may disagree (or feel that way). And you'll do just find here.

Hey Jon, are you one them good 'ole' redneck southern boys?

I was raised on a dairy farm out in the desert of Eastern Oregon.


Keith

[JonVet999]

for the parameters...

as for a redneck, good 'ol boy etc..... I live near Brookhaven and
Bogue Chitto in Mississippi at a place called Hog Chain. My family has always had a hog farm back at least 5 generations. there is a lot of dairy farming around here as well. I am posting below something i found about the origins of the words hick, hillbilly, redneck, gringo, cracker, honky, etc... if this is out of line please PM me and it will be gone. i was going to edit it, but i think it reads better all whole like. the site i got it from seems interesting also. around here you have your rich folk, working class, poor folk, poor-white-trash, jes' plain trash, criminals, no-good-fer-nothin's, good-ole-boys, rednecks, white-collar, blue-collar, farmers, sharecroppers, and a few that don' nobody no about....

i havent give it much thot...but i would guess jes a farmer...

what church are u a minister for ?

of course around here is mostly baptists, mthodists, and the like

later

pig jon :d: :e:

[JonVet999]

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/5/messages/744.html.

The Phrase Finder


Re: Honkies & hicks & hillbillies & gringos & Rednecks @ "navvies"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by Billy Jo on July 16, 2000 at 09:43:01:
In Reply to: Re: Honkies & hicks & hillbillies & gringos posted by Scott Marsden on July 14, 2000 at 17:51:31:


: does anyone know where this term originated? thanks. m

: "Redneck" is one of several terms referring to country folk that should be used with caution.

: My children were touring Chinatown in New York City with a school group. An elderly (and possibly inebriated) Asian-American man heard the students'
Kentucky accents and called out, "Redneck! Redneck!" The young people were amused. Others might not be amused. Calling someone a "redneck" could earn the
offender a punch in the nose. Or worse.

: The "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Facts on File, New York, 1997) has this to say about the term:

: "REDNECK. A poor, white, often rowdy southerner, usually one from a rural area. The word, which is sometimes derogatory, has its origins in the sunburned
necks of farmers and outdoor laborers, and originally meant a poor farmer. 'A redneck is by no means to be confused with 'po' whites,' wrote Jonathan Daniels in
'A Southerner Discusses the South' (1938): 'Poor white men in the South are by no means all po' white even in the hills. Lincoln and Jackson came from a southern
folk the back of whose necks were ridged and red from labor in the sun.'"

: Last year my daughter's teacher explained to his class that "poor white" was an OK term to use in the South. It was just what certain people were called.
WRONG. I put the following information together for my child to undo that bit of miseducation.

: In "Whistlin' Dixie: A Dictionary of Southern Expressions, " (Pocket Book, 1993) Robert Hendrickson explains that "poor white" and "poor white trash" are not
neutral terms used to refer to people who are white and poor. These terms are slurs used to denigrate people who are viewed as poor, white and of low character:

: "POOR WHITE - 'In discriminating Southern speech, it (poor white) was NOT (emphasis mine) used to include all white person who were poor?The 'poor
whites' were those who were both poor and conspicuously lacking the common social virtues and especially fell short of the standard in certain economic qualities.'
(W.T. Couch, 'Culture in the South,' 1941) An old black Southern rhyme goes:

: My name is Sam,
: I don't give a damn.
: I'd ruther be black
: Than a poor white man.

: POOR WHITE TRASH - Lower-class white people. 'There were white people who were poor and there were poor white people. The difference was absolute.'
(Jonathan Daniels, 'Tar Heels,' 1941) The offensive term goes back at least to the early 19th century. 'The slaves themselves entertain the very highest contempt for
white servants, whom they designate as 'poor white trash.' ' (Frances Kimble, 'Journal,' 1833) Terms like poor white, poor white trash, redneck and peckerwood
are often slur names in about the same class as nigger."

: Grady McWhiney, in "Cracker Culture: Celtic Ways in the Old South," (The University of Alabama Press, 1988) makes a distinction concerning the term
CRACKER and tries to reclaim the term that is now used as a slur. He says that "cracker," in Scotch-Irish dialect meant "a person who talked boastingly." Later the
term Crackers came to mean a Scotch-Irishmen, a particular group of people.
: McWhiney says Cracker eventually became a disparaging term and Crackers were equated with "poor whites."

: He quotes historian Lewis C. Gray, in "History of Agriculture in the Southern United States to 1860," as associating the term Cracker with other slurs: "The
distinctive characteristics of poor whites were recognized in the various special appellations by which they were contemptuously known in different parts of the
South, such as, 'piney-woods people,' 'dirt-eaters,' 'clay-eaters,' 'tallow-faced gentry,' 'sand-hillers,' and 'crackers.'"

: McWhiney asserts that Crackers are a distinctive ethnic group - the Scotch-Irish - and is appalled that, "?in a nation in which slurs based upon race, ethnicity, or
religion have become strictly taboo, it is still acceptable to lampoon Crackers as a group?"
:
Since we're on the subject, ethnic groups have always had derogatory (for insult only)"pet names" thoughout history. I remember (about 100 threads back) a
discussion about the origin of gringo which I beleive meant "a Greek" as a mocking of not understanding when whites spoke. I find that funny. I also (in jest) find your
explanation of the rednecks origin funny with regard to sunburned necks--it makes sense. Who knows if these, and the like, began as simple boyish grammar school
jousting like "four eyes" then abused later. I'm interested in how many more of these "pet names" originated this way.
There are spanish(from Spain), italian and Irish. I was wondering the origin of "Spic" and "Hick". and "Ginny"? I'm truley interested. Besides, unless one knows the
origin of these words---how could one take offense. (Not knowing what you're being compared to or referred to). Thanks.
: : +: Since we're on the subject, ethnic groups have always had derogatory (for insult only)"pet names" thoughout history. I remember (about 100 threads back) a
discussion about the origin of gringo which I beleive meant "a Greek" as a mocking of not understanding when whites spoke.

: : Along the same lines, I believe the derogatory slang "honky", referring to whites, had its origins with insults like "hunky" and "bohunk". These latter are very strong
insults aimed at people of an Eastern European origin. They are basically combinations of Hungarian, Bohemian (in the sense of coming from Bohemia, now in the
Czech Republic)and Ukrainian. Where I come from in Western Canada, someone of Ukraininan heritage would probably take offense if you called him a "hunky" or
"bohunk"; but if you called any white person a "honky", they'd probably just laugh. It seems to be more retro-cheezy than actually insulting.

: : : There are spanish(from Spain), italian and Irish. I was wondering the origin of "Spic" and "Hick". and "Ginny"?

: : "Spic" is no doubt a bastardization of "Hispanic".

: Not too long ago someone on this site had told of the era of jazz and jazz clubs (either Chicago or New York)where a "select few" black female singers would
(after the show)go to the street and solicit sex. But, unlike today where prostitutes walk the streets, they would stay in the building until a car drove up and honked
(usually a white male)---thus here's comes a honky.
: I applaud your non PC attitude of some of these old ethnic slurs being retro-cheezy than actually insulting. Most of these origins are very funny.
: Honk-Honk...

HONKY OR HONKIE - This derogatory term for white people probably evolved from "hunkies," according to two references. "Black Talk: Words and Phrases
from the Hood to the Amen Corner" by Geneva Smitherman (Houghton Mifflin Co., Boston, 1994): "Honky - a negative term for a white person. Probably derived
and borrowed from the name-calling and expression of resentment by settled European Americans against central and Eastern Europeans immigrants, who were
negatively referred to as 'hunkies' (from Hungarians). Blacks, in competition with these immigrants in the first half of the twentieth century, generalized the term to all
whites. Also hunky."

Ditto for "Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins" by Robert Hendrickson (Fact on File, New York, 1997): "HONKIE; BOHUNK - 'Bohunk,' a low
expression for a Polish- or Hungarian-American, arose at the turn of the century, and is probably a blend of Bohemian and Hungarian (both Poles and Hungarians
were called Bohemians). 'Bohunks' were also ' hunkies,' and black workers in the Chicago meat-packing plants probably pronounced this as 'honkie,' soon
applying it as a derisive term not just for their Polish and Hungarian co-workers but for all whites."

A personal note: in West Virginia "hunkie" means Italian-American.

HICK -"Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Volume 1, H-O" "n. 1. (formerly a hypocoristic form of Richard) an unsophisticated country
person; bumpkin; yokel?"

Anyone know what "hypocoristic" means??

HILLBILLY -- "I Hear America Talking" by Stuart Berg Flexner (Von Nostrand Reinhold Co., New York, 1976): "?Mountaineer, 1834, first applied to one who
hunted, wandered, or lived in the Appalachians; hillbilly (1900), as Hill-Billy)."

By the way, the West Virginia motto is "Mountaineers are always free."

"Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins" by William and Mary Morris (HarperCollins, New York, 1977, 1988): "hillbilly is exactly what the word implies -
a rustic from the hills?The earliest example of its use comes from the turn of this century and from the vicinity of Arkansas. Then its use spread throughout the South
and it became especially common in Kentucky and West Virginia."

But NOT where we can hear it. Hillbilly is one of them fightin' words.

"Random House Historical Dictionary of American Slang, Volume 1, H-O" by J.E. Lighter, Random House, New York, 1994. "1900?In short, a Hill-Billie is a
free and untrammelled white citizen of Alabama, who lives in the hills, has no means to speak of, dresses as he can, talks as he please, drinks whiskey when he gets
it, and fires off his revolver as the fancy takes him."

Lord, that makes me homesick.

GRINGO - The "Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins" says that the "?legend that the Spanish American term 'gringo' - a pejorative label for an
American - came from 'Green Grow the Lilacs' is a good story?" American soldiers was supposed to have "?sang this song repeatedly" during the Mexican war
and the "natives" heard it as "green-grow," thus "gringo."

"?But the truth is the word 'gringo' was standard in Spain before 1787, half a century or more before the Mexican War?appearing in a Madrid publication in
1787 and meaning 'any person with a peculiar accent that prevents him from achieving the true Castilian accent.' In fact, the label 'gringo' was first pinned upon the
Irish?"

I like the "Green Grow the Lilacs" story better.


: Anyone know what "hypocoristic" means??

A "pet name" or diminutive.

A "navy" is a laborer: the name originated in England during the 18th century with the growth of canal building. Canals were, in those days, known as navigations and the builders as navigators - later shortened to "navvies".



pig jon :e: :e:

[Keith_Hixson]

It would seem that the South had a more highly structure caste system for society than the North and especially the West.

We were probably, as dairy farmers, lower middle income folks. But, being raised in the desert West of Eastern Oregon nobody seemed to be caste conscience.

I always resented the rich dry land wheat ranchers. Only worked six months a year at the most. Made the most money. Vacationed in Arizona and Hawaii. And complained the most about the weather and grain prices. While us Dairy Farmers worked 365 days a year. Grain ranchers work hard in the fall and for a short time in the spring. They really work hard during harvest but nobody is going to convince me they work as hard as dairy farmers.

I went off to College when I was 18. Ran out of Money after two years. Tried working for a year. Got drafted before I could get back into College. Finished College after I got out.

I am an Assemblies of God pastor.

Out West, a red-neck usually refers to a person with conservative politics. So us who are conservatives wear the badge of red-neck with pride. But, down your way it may not be so.

Keith

Keith

[vetgirl]

My husband, George Wiliam Hart III, was raised in dairy land; salt of the earth (mothers milk) They are not paid their worth. Who knows what priorities we will put on our survival.

[Jerry D]

Hey old Pig Jon in Mississippi, I am a little late reading your post. But you were asking some questions I resembled :) I was raised on a pig farm in SE Missouri then I joined the Airforce did my 20 then Retired in SE Georgia (didn't want to shovel anymore Snow) and now its 90*f in Georgia and the 'maters are growing pretty good I got marble size ones now :)