10 POW's

[catman]

Iraqi soldiers and Fox news claim that the Iraqi's have taken 10 Americans including one female POW. Pray gentlemen. Pray for their safe return and pray that the commanders unleash a storm the likes have never been seen.

Problem with "Shock and Awe" or as they said in GWI "Haul ass and bypass" is the follow on forces can not protect their selfs. They have not had the training or do they posses the weapons to deal with platoon size enemy elements.

Fox news now reporting 4 American POWs shoot in head, execution style.

Trav

[Arrow]

Praying and watching Trav. I have a question. What do you and the rest of the vets think of the live coverage?


At first I thought it was ok as they could record for the world our actions towards any that surrender. Tina had said in a phone conversation that her dad and her felt that they should not have it. As we have got farther in and seeing Marines shot at and shooting backI am concerned about the families that have men and women on the ground. What happens if they see their own killed before their eyes? I am sure many have turned off their television. I remember spending my time away from the tv while many in the military community were gathered around it.

I am also concerned about all you vets out there already suffering from PTSD being triggered on a moment to moment basis. Some may get through this ok but somewill not. I know how most of you are. If you can't be there in person you may feel that you need to keep the TV on 24/7 and in so doing you are standing with them. I am having the same problem. But I don't have a family member in the Gulf. I know if they were there I couldn't handle it.

I want you all to know that I am thinking of you every day and praying for everyone of you and your emotional well being through this thing.


I really want to hear from you guys before I call the White House. That is exactly what I am getting ready to do but I will stand down for a bit and wait for your response. Sis

[catman]

Sis...I can only speak for myself. The media coverage is a true two sided sword.

I think that they could be more sympathetic to the families that have lost loved ones, the father on national tv showing pictures of his dead son. I am quite sure that he felt this at first and later on he would realize that it was his son's choice to join and he died doing what he was trained to do and died for a cause greater than himself. God cares for the liberators of the oppressed. Now with his new found fame the reporters and antiwar types will hound this guy relentlessly and the seed of contempt have been firmly planted and will grow and grow. The entire family will take up signs and travel the country speaking for the antiwar movement.

As a veteran unable to be there, I can not turn the tv off. I have slept very little and found myself channel surfing for the latest news. I have all the leading news sites from the US, England and Russia bookmarked. I have several different maps that I can reference at a glance. This is my first tv war that I am not a part of and am very unsure how to act. I was but a wee lad during Vietnam and Dad was stationed in Germany during the early 70's so all we heard was Armed Forces Radio and not much else.

I guess that i am quite the hypocrite as I feel as though I can not get enough news while at the same time think that the general public does not have the need to know.

As for the PTSD, I have not had any trouble since the war began. The days leading up to the fighting were very tough. Wife even told me that I am doing much better.

Trav

[Arrow]

Trav,

I agree with every one of your points. And even the fact that you feel more comfortable with your need to know over the general public. It's understandable.

In speaking with my daughter while waiting on your response she was telling me of seeing our troops pick up a 14 or 15 year old girl wandering around out there in need of medical attention and alone. They ministered to her immediate needs then had her flown out by chopper to a medical facility. She was also commenting about the fine men and women we have in force there and how proud she was of them. We talked about this question of media coverage and both agreed as you said it is a two edge sword keeping in mind that the media is documenting and recording for all the world to see our conduct which we can be more than proud of. We have shown great restraint and patience through out this whole process.

God Bless You Trav..

God Bless All Of Our Warriors Past And Present...

God Bless the families of our Warriors Past and Present...

God Bless America...

Sis

[catman]

I may have given the wrong idea that I am entitled to more information than the general public. That is not what I intended to say, I meant to say that I can not turn off the news coverage and am glad for the coverage on on hand. On the other hand, I do not feel that the general public has a need to know all that is going on. hence the two sided sword.

Trav

[Arrow]

Your clear brother...understood..Sis

[DMZ-LT]

Rocket killed 29 one day at C-2 by the Z. Never Heard a word about it written or told any where. Bless our troops.

[David]

The whole thing is surreal, I am not watching TV.

[David]

DMZ-LT I hope everyones story will eventually be told. Thank you and your generation for standing up for the rest of us. Your sacrifices and lessons learned in Vietnam have given every trooper since much better odds of returned in one piece. I hope the troops in the field today heed those lessons as well.

[MORTARDUDE]

fragging of our officers, dead..maybe executed POWs on live TV, being involved in firefights in realtime, watching a city being bombed in realtime..... I try not to watch, but it is hard. If one of my sons were in harms way, I can only imagine how this would be. It seems DOD is getting info out in a ragged manner. Every news channel seems to have different info. If indeed the Iraqis are pulling ambushes when they are to surrender and are executing our POWs.... this is all going to get very bad. My fear at the outset was that we do not have enough trigger-pullers on the ground. I hope I am wrong. The 173rd Airborne is coming into Kirkuk in the North from Italy....Yes, this all just creeps me out big-time.

Larry

[catman]

Larry...hang in there brother. If I can you too can. As for being creeped out, i can more than relate. Really strange to sit and watch those guys talking ground that we took in 91. Same-same Vietnam, just took longer to occur.

Keep your head up brother, just heard 1st ID is also on the way. 4th ID is coming around from Turkey, course unto their mustache, and should be unloading the boats in the next day or two. Should be quite the NASCAR race up highway 8 to Basra, then north up highway 28 to Baghdad.

Trav

[PHO127]

Our own media, if not those four then others in the future. The front page of the Atlanta Journal Constitution this Sunday shows two GIs (British) but it doesn't matter, looking at two dead Iraqi soldiers in a trench with a white flag of surrender. Now what do you suppose will happen when this picture gets reprinted in an Arab newspaper or shown on Arab TV. Don't blame them Blame our own media. BASTARDS

[deltamedic]

Not since the Civil War has American and its people had a real and up close dose or reality of what type carnage war holds. No matter how much you digress the horrors of war it fails to fully register with 95% of the people in this country.
Televised news of the true, true horrors war produces should be aired to wake us as a nation of people up to its full reality not just the few that have in the past had to fight them and endure them.
Yes, its horrible on one side of the fence to see a possible loved one killed but its also just as horrible that we go non-chalantly about life with the attitude that well; its too bad but since it doesn't affect me personally it will pass as a passing thought in time.
9-11 should have showed America something, as it was in full reality we were all shocked and dumbfounded a bit initially but as time went by it became a more and more NY and DC happening.
They are harping on the Geneve Convention well..let history rear its ugly side a moment and pause to reflect that in the past it was not adhered to by the Japanese, Korea, Vietnam, Germany so why would we expect now to have our POW's treated under the Geneve Convention correctly? In actuality the Geneva Convention does not apply to this matter just as it didn't apply in Korea or Vietnam...why? The U.S. Congress never issued a Declaration of War henceforth the G.C. was not applicable; sad but true.
I have the image that once our troops get within short range of Baghdad that then morter and rockets will be fired with nerve or biological elements at them wherein no response time from patriot missles could be had...This man has more sinister ideas in mind and I dread to see the true price we are going to pay.

Doc

[David]

PHO127 there have been a few reports already of them flying the white flag and then opening up on troops that come forward to accept the surrender. I have no doubt this was one of those occasions. There will be a point however when no surrender will be accepted.

[PHO127]

Flag or no flag, men, women or children. But it is irresponsible of the media to print such a picture then complain because they are killing POWs.

[MARINEVET]

about the bypassing of Iraqis/Iraqi elements and positions, in most cases (at least with our USMC assets over there), most follow-on forces (to include those in CSS-oriented outfits) are "task forced" so that they either have some fairly potent organic weapons or have Infantry (Rifle Co elements) attached.

As for the SOJERS who were captured...fog of war and a wrong turn...tragic, but certainly happens. It will now be a very serious leadership challenge in dealing with the troops...who...will probably want to retaliate in some manner when they take Iraqi prisoners...can't allow this or we lower ourselves to "their" level.

Back to your concerns about bypassing...same-same with me...hope we're not leaving folks' "stuff" hanging out w/re to regional security.

We here in Jacksonville NC are watching the events in Iraq very closely since about 18,000 of our friends and neighbors are deployed over there.

AS FOR THE MARINES who were involved in the POW issue earlier today...a very hard but quickly learned lesson. Same comment as w/SOJERS dealing with captives that I mentioned above...the Gyrenes must exercise restraint (not to mention a whole helluvalotta caution) the next time they approach folks claiming they want to surrender...a considerable leadership challenge...!

And as for the fraggin' incident...discussed that in another thread...sad day for the famed 101st and the NCO/PO Corps in general...but...as I've told some SOJERS on back-channel emails who got up with this ol' Jarhead...just to vent...that they should KEY on the FINE job being done by so many FINE Soldiers over there...not this ONE individual who let us down...!

Semper Fi,

[Arrow]

MARINEVET,

Thank you for your wise words in regard to not taking revenge but taking the high ground. I hope you and yours are well.

Arrow>>>>>>>>>

[Jerry D]

I agree that The Numerous units deployed to the Area are doing a great job and should be proud of the job they are doing serving their country and to the members who gave all for thier Country God bless them and their Families.

[MORTARDUDE]

Would it be possible to scan the picture and surrounding caption so that we can read it ? I can't find this on their website. This may just be a set-up. Thanks.

Larry

[PHO127]

You have to go to front pages and bring up 03-23-03. It is no set up, just stupidity, I receive the paper.

[MORTARDUDE]

Their web site is real user un-friendly....can you scan the front page so I can see the caption and the picture clearly ? This still bothers me. Thanks.

Larry

[PHO127]

you're right, their web site is very complicated. Sent the authors an email when I posted the picture, they still haven't answered. Sent them another email this morning telling them how chickenshit they were for not answering.