Law Enforcement Forum

[philly]

Here's a law enforcement forum some of you may be interested in visiting:

forums.realpolice.net

[39mto39g]

every once in awhile I get into this argument with a new police officer about his police dog,
It useually starts out, Oh, he wont bite you, and I say, if he dose I will kill him. Which brings on a barage of this is not just a dog but he is a police officer, which useually brings on laughter from me.
Any of the police officers we have belive that a police dog is an officer?????????


Ron

[philly]

I think police dogs are officers. They are not human of course, but they are officers. They protect when needed. They cannot think like humans, so they must take commands from their handler. There's one instance where they do not need a command to assist and that is taking a bullet for their handler.

They are sent into dark vacant buildings and houses to locate perps. By sending the dogs before their handlers, helps to prevent an attack on their handler. They are used to chase after fleeing suspects and subduing them until their handler takes control. There are too many instances to name where police dogs are used to police the criminals and save their handlers lives.

I hope this gives you a better understanding of why policemen consider their K-9 dogs police officers.

Kindest regards,

Philly

[39mto39g]

Dogs are not police officers, They are equipment, Just like a holster, They go where an officer sends them just as there vehicle does.
If you really belive they are police officers, I would like to see them cash there check, How much have they paid into the pention fund, Why does this officer get tied up at night.
A dog is not a police officer, nore are a pair of shoes.

I hope this gives you a better understanding.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

Why are they given a badge? If someone were to attack one of these police officers, K-9, what charges would they be brought up on? They would be brought up on assault on a police officer.

Regards,

Philly

[David]

The loyalty of dogs to humans goes beyond words. Dogs have also saved many lives serving faithfully in our armed services. If there was a dog heaven surely these would be first in line :a:

[philly]

Yes, the loyalty these dogs give to their handlers is deserving of respect. They have earned their badge many times over..

[39mto39g]

I would laugh all the way to the court room,
First witness I would call Is Officer Dog,
Who cashes your check Mr. Dog. What No answer,
Your Honor, would you direct this officer to answer the question.
(case dismissed)

The dog is a peace of equipment, The officer that contols the peace of equipment can charge anybody with anything, That doesn't mean they are gilty. Saying that a dog is an officer is just stupid, and If I was an officer, I wouldn't like it.
Who gets the next of kin money if the dog dies in the line of duty.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

Whether an officer has two legs or four legs, they should be treated with the same respect.

Police dogs are not pieces of equipment. Yes, using equipment like a revolver or a pistol could save your life. Will it jump in front of you to take a bullet for ya? Heck no! A police dog will jump in front of his handler to save his life without command. Their loyalty to humans and the work they do has earned them the title Police Officer.

The value one places on animal, such as a dog, is the way you are going to look at them in this position..a piece of equipment or Police Officer. You choose equipment and I choose police officer and the Federal law states Police Officer.

[philly]

The article below was published in the Beacon Journal on August 1 last year. I didn't copy the entire article, but I did mark the salient points in bold face.

A felony is " a crime for which the punishment in federal law may be death or imprisonment for more than one year".

Police dogs are still officers

Judge gives Barberton man maximum of year for punching K-9 member By Phil Trexler Beacon Journal staff writer

Robert Dulabhan voiced his remorse in court Wednesday, seeking a break for punching a police officer last spring.

But the judge didn't bite.

The same could not be said of the officer, who, while responding to a call in May, chomped at Dulabhan's head before the Barberton man retaliated with the punch that landed him in court.

Despite the bite wound, Summit County Common Pleas Judge Mary Spicer said Dulabhan's reaction was unacceptable.

``An officer is an officer -- whether he has two legs or four,'' Spicer told Dulabhan before sentencing him to a year in prison for assaulting Charon, a K-9 police dog. ``They're entitled to the same respect as other officers.''

Dulabhan pleaded guilty to assaulting a police dog, a fifth-degree felony , and aggravated menacing, a misdemeanor.

He told court officials he remembered little of the event, except being bitten by Charon.

[39mto39g]

Id like to see a federal law that says dogs are police officers.
The dog will help out its owner because it is trained to do that.
If you trained it to sit when a gun shot was heard, thats what it would do. You can think a dog is an officer if you want, I think more of our officers than that. Show me the Federal Law.
Then I would still ask the dog where he cashes his check, and lets see his W4 form.
Listen this conversation is getting relly dumb, lets just stop.

Ron

[philly]

Ah, Ron,

You mean you want to stop? ;) Yeah, we were playing paddy cake there for a while. :)
Have a good evening.

Best regards,

Philly

[philly]

Ron,

I researched this further and found that there isn't any mention of police dogs officially named police officers. None that I've seen regarding the federal law. However, they are considered a police partners. And that's why some policemen and civilians refer to K-9 cops as police officers. So you are right if we are to be completely factual.

Here's an interesting article on this subject:

Aug. 9 ? For those tempted to punch a horse during a demonstration or kick a narcotics dog sniffing at your bag, the U.S. government has a new message: Keep your paws off or you will go to jail.
Harming these four-legged law agents is now a federal offense. Under the Federal Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act , which went into effect this week, anyone convicted of purposely assaulting, maiming, or killing federal law enforcement animals such as police dogs and horses could be fined at least $1,000 and spend up to 10 years in prison. Previously, the animals were covered by a variety of state, rather than federal, laws.
The United States Police Canine Association and The Humane Society believe the new law will not only provide more protection for the animals they but also deter criminals, particularly in drug stings, from targeting canines.
And, as Russell Hess, the executive director of the U.S. Police Canine Association, notes, the new law recognizes the law enforcement animals as more than just a piece of police equipment and property. The stronger punishment recognizes the animals as partners who are valued by human officers.
?If it protects the animal then that?s great. But if it doesn?t, then at least now the punishment will be more in line with the violation,? said Hess. ?We?re hoping that once people hear about the new law and the punishment they will face, that they will be deterred from hurting a federal law enforcement animal. Before, the animals were classified as a piece of equipment, like a computer, or a police car.
?Well, the law recognizes that an animal is not like a computer and is a living thing that has to be taken care of. Though the animal?s not a person, the bond [with the human officer] is still there.?
A Target in Drug Busts
Before the law went into effect, Hess said, the Police Canine Association had received reports that narcotics dealers had put out bounties on narcotics dogs that had either thwarted or come dangerously close to foiling their operations on previous encounters.
The Federal Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act was introduced in 1999 by Rep. Jerry Weller, R-Ill. and was approved by the House of Representatives last October.
Though there are no national statistics on the number of animal fatalities suffered annually, the canine association says that assaults on law enforcement animals were on the rise when the bill was proposed. According to the association, eight police dogs were killed while on duty between 1998 and 1999.
Weller believes that law enforcement animals needed greater protection under federal law because of the dangerous situations they face and because the bond they share with their human colleagues.
?Police dogs?and horses? lives are on the front line against drug runners and violent criminals every day,? Weller said in a statement. ?Law enforcement officers have told me that police dogs are the first sent in to survey dangerous crime scenes involving drugs, bombs or other high risk situations.?

Ties To Human Assaults
Wayne Pacelle, senior vice president for communications and government affairs at the Humane Society, says the federal law is an overdue recognition of the work of law enforcement animals and their sacrifices. Pacelle hopes that the law will not only protect canines and horses on duty but ultimately protect human beings. He believes the law recognizes a link between attacks on animals and assaults on human beings.
?Maybe that will prevent people from transferring their violent tendencies and actions on other people,? Pacelle said. ?Oftentimes, studies have shown violence against animals pre-stages violence against people. It?s important that law enforcement agencies, judges, and prosecutors take these acts very seriously as an indicator of future violence.?

K-9 Partners:

Federal Law Enforcement Animal Protection
Summary: Legislation that raises the penalties for anyone who "willfully harms" a federal police dog or horse. The Federal Law Enforcement Animals Protection Act establishes a prison term of up to ten years if the offense results in the death of the animal.

Status: Signed into law August 2, 2000 (P.L. 106-254).
Position/Action: Please thank the bill's sponsors, Representative Jerry Weller (R-IL) and Senator Jon Kyl (R-AZ) for their leadership on this issue and encourage their continued support of animal protection legislation.

[39mto39g]

No one doughts the good things that the police dogs do, However thats not what we are talking about. Even if some city made an ordinance saying police dogs were police officers that would not make it so, First someone would have to be arrested for ( kick the dog) assulting a police officer, Then the court would have to find the person guilty, and thats where the person charged would get off, Because , like I said , My first witness in the court of law would be officer dog, Case dissmissed.

All officers that I know of have to go through an accadomy and take test and some agency has to hold there commision. The dog could not pass the test so it would not get a commision so it could not be an officer.
If it looks like a dog and barks like a dog, its probibly a dog.
The fire service has dog also, but we don't call them Firemen.

Ron

[philly]

Hi Ron,

I understand what you are trying to convey, but it doesn't mean that I agree. I think we both have differing opinions on this subject. If a cop chooses to call his K-9 dog a police officer that's his prerogative. Does everyone need to agree on the title? No. The criminals need to keep in mind if they strike or kill a K-9, they will be prosecuted under federal law because they are valued more than equipment.

It seems that we are both at an impasse on this subject.

Philly

[MORTARDUDE]

I had some experience with dogs in 'Nam..on several occasions they spotted booby traps and saved lives...I have read about some that "walked point"....more than just equipment...They had to leave all of them in-country...a travesty...call them what you will...they have emotions, are loyal, and will die for you....they are not just equipment...

Just my opinion...not meant to start another argument,

Larry

[philly]

Hi Larry,

While researching the federal law for canine yesterday, I found there are ways of adopting retired Military K-9. I was very glad to learn of this. If they are manageable and are able to adapt to a home environment, it's a great thing. What a great way to save a life.

[David]

Most ex-police dogs can be adopted as well. One our our dogs went through most of the training but then we did not want to have to buy it back years later so he was pulled from the program.

[39mto39g]

Being prosicuted and found guilty are different, Any police officer can arrest anyone for anything, That doesn't mean they are quilty.
Hitting a dog and being arrested for assulting a police officer will end up in case dismissed, Cause the Dog officer can't testify. And more importantly, THE DOG IS NOT AN OFFICER.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

I like to believe the federal law protecting the K-9 cops can and will be enforced. I also want to believe that prosecuting a criminal for breaking the Federal Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act could be tried with the same degree of seriousness as that of a human.

Not all cases of assault on a K-9 are thrown out. If the prosecutor has eye witness testimony supporting the K-9 cop's case, it would be very difficult for any judge to ignore the testimony. Would a judge throw out a case even with strong evidence in favor of the K-9 cop? Sure. Why? Some humans do not value the life of an animal even if it is a K-9 cop. I like to think there are more judges that would sit on a case, such as an assault on a K-9, with an open mind then not. I believe they would consider all of the presented evidence and make his/her judgement based on this evidence.

[Andy]

A dog can't testify it was the victim of an assault. That is very true. However people are convicted of that crime without the dog's testimony. The victim of a murder can't testify either, however some people are convicted and without the testimony. This could be another example of different states - different laws. Around here dogs have been sworn in as cops for at least 20 years.
When they "alert" on a suitcase at an airport for example, it is considered probable cause to search the item. The same is true when a dog "alerts" on the trunk of a car, a school locker, or in an apartment. The dog handler testifies on behalf of the dog. A three year old who was sexually assaulted would generally not be asked to testify in a criminal case. A one year old victim would never, of course, be asked to testify but pedophiles are still convicted.
Dogs aren't people, however when they are trained to find drugs, as an example, their abilities are accepted as "expert".
Until the time they want to unionize for extra days off, more pay and for protection when they start hitting on other dogs for sex, I think we ought to continue to call them Officer Rex.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[39mto39g]

The case we are talking about is not an asualt on a dog its an asualt on a ploice officer, as the defence would no dought bring up, If this animal is an officer it should be able to testify under oath, If this animal is not an officer than the assult against a police officer should be thrown out. Take your pick, ya can't have it both ways, Is the dog an officer or not?


Look, there is no dought that the dogs ,that officers control do great things for that officer, but calling a dog an officer is a
dis-services to the police officer that is an officer. Why don't we call his car an officer or his vest? I'll tell you why, because they are equipment, That was bought.

Kicking the dog would be the same as kicking the car. No more, no less.

Ron

[ArtySgt]

I think the difference is if you kick a car you can't hurt it, I.E. cause it pain.

[MORTARDUDE]

a car or a vest didn't have blood and a brain...

Larry

[Keith_Hixson]

Farmers, NOT ALL, seem to think of their working animals in the same way they look at new equipment. If a herding dog isn't working out then he is disposable. Now, my wife the wonderful sweet person she is becomes emotionally attached to just about any animal (including me!). She would never consider a police dog or any other pooch a tool. But, an object of affection.
I think its all how you look at it.

Keith

[39mto39g]

Personnaly I don't care about animals one way or the other, They are good to eat, Thats all,
You can't go down to the local pound and buy a police officer, unless your talking slavery, you buy a dog, train it to do what ever you want it to and use it until its wore out, then you get another one, Car, vest , Dog. Gun, Holster, shoes. Some people may grow attached to there peice of equipment, like a New York Cop and his horse, but that attachment doesn't make the equipment anything more than equipment. sorry.

Ron

[philly]

I suppose dog fongu would be a treat... :D

[39mto39g]

wouldn't bother me any to eat officer dog.
Hot BBQ pit , slow cook for 4 or 5 hours, some beer, a few frends.


Ron