Equal!

[Andy]

Finally, a little sanity!
In 1974 a class action suit was filed against the city of Boston and rightfully so. Boston had a minority population of 23%. The fire department had only 1% minority group members, the police had less than 3%. As a result a judge named Wiezanski when overboard. He said that if a black or Hispanic received a 70 on the civil service test it was the same as a white boy getting a 100. This is how things have been operating since 1975.

Today Boston and most of the state has about 40% minority group members on Police and Fire departments, however the state population is only around 33% minority. As a result a Federal Court just ruled that the score of 100 for minorities is unconstitutional. If a person gets an 85, it?s an 85. Our laws say that if there is one opening the candidate must be picked from the top three scores.

Isn?t it funny? When Dr. King, way back when, said he wanted his people to be equal many of us thought that was a fine idea. However, Father Jackson and his boys have been demanding to me ?more equal? than others. If two candidates both get an 85 on an exam I see no problem with giving a black, Hispanic or woman the job. But if a white guy gets a 90 and the other two candidates have a 85, the 90 should get the job. Wouldn?t it be nice if hiring and promotions ignored color, ethnic background and sex? It seems that?s what this Federal ruling is shooting for.

Stay healthy,
Andy
PS: One exception, sex should be a factor when applying for a job at Hooters.

[39mto39g]

Andy
The court making this ruling, (unconstitutional) means that all those passed up can get there rightfull jobs with back pay and senyority, And the city can also recoop money from what ever government agaency that made such a redicules ruleing.
Sounds like a letter to the editor is what is needed.

Ron

[Andy]

The ruling wasn't straight and simple, they never are. The judge said something had to be done in 1974 however in 2003 there is no longer an imbalance, thus today it's an unconstitutional procedure. It's sort of like saying, "Us judges fixed the problem, now it's time to get back to fairness."
That original ruling came in the middle of the court ordered busing to desegregate Boston schools. A very violent time. The original idea was, in part, blacks would be less apt to throw bricks at black cops and firemen. It didn't work but that was the idea.
Also, less than 3% of the entire fire and police being minority was just wrong. Maybe the most important thing about all this is an acknowledgment that "social engineering" done by judges doesn't work very well. So very many whites just packed up and left the city. If it wasn't for a lot of immigrants from Europe the city would probably be 60% minority.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[39mto39g]

Kinda like afermative action. Ive always said that when they bring back afermative action they should start with the NBA. There are no short fat white guys in the NBA, there needs to be a quota. And then we could go to the NFL. we need some more white guys as wide recevers, so what if white guys are not fast and can't jump, Theres a quota and its afermative action.

Kinda dumb ain't it.

Ron

[philly]

In the 70's, many blacks and Hispanics did not have the privileges/opportunities to attend colleges like they do now. Despite this truth, hiring standards should have never been lowered to accommodate said quota for any department.

You'll find today many blacks and Hispanics are capable of scoring in the top percentile. College has been made more affordable and accessible to many minorities. Many are well educated and pass the written and oral exams without any difficulties. Those who cannot pass, should not be considered. Everyone should be scored on the same scale. I don?t even think sex should be a consideration for hire. Hopefully, we, as women, can hold our own and compete along side our male candidates..

[39mto39g]

Don't belive this is true at all. I went to college in the 70s because I went to the Army in the 60s, GI bill,
Most all the people that went to college in the 70 and 80 and 90s that didn't go under GI bill got student loans and went to college. Blacks and anyone else had the same opertunity, You had to have a high school deploma, Junior college all you need was a GED.
Its much easier to use a gun to get money, just look at the prison population.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

When I was growing up in the 70's most of the Blacks and Hispanics were auto workers, factory workers and field workers with little or no former education.

I know that the GI bill was offered to our minority brothers, but what are they going to do with $10,000.00 in college tuition if they can't even write or read? Many that left the Military after war, had no choice but to find work. Their families needed assistance and they needed to eat.

Today, it's a different story. Hispanics and Blacks are educated and go on to college. Some enlist in the Military so that they may receive the GI Bill in order to further their education and advancement. I'm glad to see things have improved for them. Now, it's up to them to go as far as they want to in life. Discipline gives you independence..

Lastly, I don't think any standards should be dropped for anyone whether Caucasian, Black, Hispanic or Asian.

[39mto39g]

You said, "but what are they going to do with $10,000.00 in college tuition if they can't even write or read? I can't help they were stupid, they did have it available, just like anyone else.

I couldn't get into Yale, or Harverd ( cause I was to stupid) so I settled For a Jr college and then a Univercity, I didn't go get a gun and rob people.
Ron

[philly]

Funny thing about perception is innocent people are sometimes imprisoned. My best friend's dad (while growing up), was at the check out counter in the grocery store when two policemen removed him from the space and pushed him up against the wall. They frisked him and then asked questions later. Come to find out, he matched a bolo that was sent out that day. He wasn't the criminal because he could prove his innocence. He was embarrassed in his community that he had lived in for 30 years.

Are we that far removed from our minority brothers that we cannot acknowledge their progress. Many minorities including Blacks are getting higher educations and moving into professional jobs. I know there's been a problem with meeting quotas and it was wrong. But, it's also wrong to say that minorities made the police departments and fire departments because they were hired only to meet said quotas.

[39mto39g]

You have your head stuck in a wonderful cloud, where everyone gets along and we all treat each other with respect, Sorry that anin't how it is. The prisons didn't get full of black people because they were inocent and whiite guys wanted them there.
Its only wrong to say that minorities made the police departments and fire departments because they were hired only to meet said quotas only IF this wasn't true, Which I can say I seen it happen. Why do you think all of a sudden (six months) are there blacks in every commercial , Because they got good at acting all of a sudden, NOOOOOO NAACP sued and in a settlement the add ajencies agreed to use more blacks, Not because they are better but just because they are black.
Can you imaging for a moment what the black community would say if there was an organisation called The National Association for the advancment of White people, Jessie Jackson would have a heart attack. NAACP National Association for the advancement of colored people does exist and is racist to the highest level.
Did you ever hear of a TV show called the White Power Hour, NO I think not, but there is one Called the Black Power Hour, and so on and so on and so on.
Personnaly, I could care less what race or gender someone is, When I start to speak out is when that person uses the race or gender to gain, for what ever reason.
One last thing, Your friends dad, you said matched a police Bolo, I think I would be more upset if the police did not do what they did, Or maybe you want someone matching the police bolo to just walk around and the police do nothing, because hes black and we wouldn't want to offend.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

I don't have my head in a cloud. I'm speaking from my own experience. Your experience sounds completely different than mine. Perhaps, regions make a difference when discussing this topic.

I think it's wrong to state all minorities made it in the departments because they fell under the quotas. I am sure you saw this happen, but can you honestly state each minority working for your department made it undeserved? I don't think you can.

As for Black TV, it's wrong to have separation. I don't think it's right to have the Black Entertainment Channel. They are separating themselves. But, we're not really talking about that. We're talking about Blacks and minorities on the police and fire departments.

Much of what you state is true regarding our social problems. But, I don't believe each minority on our department have made it unearned.

[Andy]

Going back to the original post, that judge's order back in the 70s was necessary to pull down the "good old boy" wall. However, it was done so poorly that any minority or woman who got a job in police or fire for quite a few years was looked down on, people thinking they ONLY got the job because of their color, ethnic back ground or sex. This made it very hard for those who were qualified. I can recall pulling a cop aside and saying about a Hispanic officer to a white cop, "He's really ok, he's good".
It came to the point of foolishness. There is the famous Malarski case. A Boston cop named Malarski passed the sergeants exam with a perfect score. Four minority officers with lower scores got the promotion. Malarski got married and took her last name, Rayez. He took the exam for sergeant, Lt. and Captain. Once he was a captain he divorced his wife and changed his name back to Malarski. The ACLU went nuts but he retained his rank. That sort of thing points out the nonsense of the court ruling.
You are right, the world has turned since the 70s, education has improved, the Head Start program has made a difference. I'm happy the court changed the rules due to fairness but I'll bet a lot of minority folks are happy too. When they get an appointment or promotion everyone will know it was a level playing field and they earned it.
Regarding the Bolo incident, if the police had information the person they were looking for was suspected of being armed, they done good. If not, a tad more training would have been in order.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[philly]

Andy,

I didn't refute anything you stated. I was simply stating that I don't believe the minorities today, where I live, are hired based on their skin tone or last name. I have met some great minority people who are cops and firemen. These men made it because they are educated and skilled.

As for the incident related to my best friend's father, it happened in a small town with little or no crime. The man was a Chaplain for Royal Rangers and never broke the law or had a ticket issued to him. I think their approach could have been a little different, but maybe I'm being sensitive because I knew him as warm and descent man.

[39mto39g]

This is the first time you used the word (all) when talking about minorities getting on Fire or police departments, No I don't belive all minorities got on fire or police by quotas , as a matter the ones that did make it on our fire department by aroundabout way are no longer with our fire department and if you'll look at another post I made here called My Crew you will see there is a black guy on my crew, he is a very fine firefighter and went through the process of getting hired without any outside help at all. And not only that but I asked for him to be on my crew, I didn't have to take him. I am the senior officer in our fire department so I could have anyone I wanted.

Those cops didn't know your friends father, what they saw was a suspect and acted on that, I wouldn't want them to do any less. He wasn't arrested was he? He was inconveinonced, Maybe you think the police officers might have asked the suspect to please talk to us after you have done your shopping, we'll just wait outside. Yea right.

Ron

[39mto39g]

The post is not called my crew its called "pictures" There are pictures of me and my crew.

Ron

[philly]

I think when you're going to be discussin a group, you have to be more specific in your references. You inadvertently made it sound like "all" were not qualified. You didn't point out "some" were qualified. It's a play with words, but it's important to be specific, especially, when discussing topics like this.

[39mto39g]

I don't belive I used the word qualified at all. I don't know what post your reading. must be something Andy wrote. However the minority people that got a 70 and were given a 100 as a test score are not qualified.

its real hard to get specific because I don't know any of the people were talking about. I was talking in general except for your friends father.

Ron

[philly]

Ron,

I understand. :)