Military Gay Marriage?

[BLUEHAWK]

My never-ending curious brain just thought of something...

What will happen to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" if/when gay and lesbian marriage IS legalized!!!!!

The Defense Department and VA are gonna have to then come up garrison housing, survivor benefits, adoption dependents procedures, child support enforcement etc etc etc... oh my God, imagine a couple wanting to get married under the swords at Annapolis!

Ya know what, except for the very few words Jesus himself is said to have said that are in the Bible, I honestly don't pay all that much attention to anything else in there other than the Ten Commandments and Psalms.

I really fail to understand exactly why marriage MUST be limited to a man and a woman. It ain't my personal cuppa tea, but if people love one another, what in the world could possibly be the harm? Heaven knows our divorce rate, the number of kids born out of wedlock, the vast numbers of kids desperate for adoption, sexual harrassment and rape and pregnancy while on duty... its gonna be an entire total disturbance all in all, right?

Gay and lesbian folks have served honorably and even commanded military groups from the dawn of warfare... Alexander's name comes to mind.

I gotta add though, why anyone would WANT to make their personal genital activity a public political issue is just inconceivable. Now we've got a Gay and Lesbian etc high school going up in New York, but no all negro or all mexican ones etc. are permitted and our taxes must not support any of the decent religious schools either. Some Catholic and Episcopal priests have been after our boy school-children for the past 60 years (AT LEAST!), and nothing much is said about those wily nuns who did the same with our girls...

Man oh man, we really ARE in deep doo doo now...this is gettin' real crazy here lately.

Yesterday our Prez said in his news conference that he's got the lawyers working on it, and the Evangelical partisans are talking about a freakin' Constitutional Amendment for heaven sake!

Just what we all needed most right about now...

Couldn't all this just wait a few years until we get our a-- out of the middle east and Korea? Please?

[blues clues]

blue this is a joke right.

razz

[BLUEHAWK]

I wish to God it was Razz...

I can see it coming, the news is full of reports day in and day out.

Today the Vatican itself sent out the official word begging nations not to agree to it.

The religious right is up in arms, and they really ARE getting the ball rolling right now (!) to demand a Constitutional Amendment which will, in effect, ban gay marriage in America.

I am NOT kidding around

[BLUEHAWK]

Here's the latest, what they're starting to debate all over the place is the "Defense of Marriage Act", which says that no State has to recognize any homosexual union that is legal in another State.

Problem then becomes, the US military is not a STATE but people from EVERY State need to live in other States where they are stationed, so will THEY be obliged to recognize the validity of a homosexual marriage? Even if they aren't, I betcha there will be a whole bunch of lawsuits insisting that they should be!

[philly]

Blue,

Even though I have Gay friends, I don't believe in Gay marriages. I don't believe Gays should be allowed to be open about their Gayness in the Military.

If I were young soldier in the Military now, I would refuse to room with a Gay female soldier. Why would I want to share a room with a Gay female when they think like a man? :d:

[BLUEHAWK]

Philly,
I was, and still am frankly, kinda thinking along the same lines as you about rooming arrangements... I just don't like it.

Sexual harassment is an issue, and so is rape. It is my undertstanding that there are more rapes BY FAR in prison among males than any amount of heterosexual rapes on the outside, for one thing. And second, if anyone has ever been the target of a homosexual predator, they know it ain't a pleasant experience... and almost never gets included in the statistics.

[BLUEHAWK]

Some more thoughts, I know I'm goin' on and on about this, but it seems to bother enough of us on both sides of the issue...

- The military law is the UCMJ, so I gotta assume that it will not feel too threatened by whatever individual States enact...it's just that this will not stop homosexual lawsuits to try and change the UCMJ, or bring up some cranky thing about people's Civil Rights being "violated". Heaven knows where that will end if gay marriages are nationally, somehow, legalized.

- Even now, if a gay marriage is legal in Vermont and Hawaii, and there is some marital dispute between partners, one or both of whom is in service, what the hell will the UCMJ do when under a State law a legitimate legal action gets underway?

- Y'know, if I thought for a minute that the true premise of all this hankering for homosexual marriages was a genuine wish to formalize the love bond (which I am sure it is in SOME cases), and not just a tricky way to use Civil Rights politics to squeeze in some financial benefits that will be added on top of everything else that is considered by our government and people as budgetary "entitlements"... then it'd ring a little truer. I just get this feeling that the folks who are truly sincere about wanting to be actually married as a way of expressing emotional committment are getting used by the fanatical political branch of the thing... the ones who made what those people do in their bedrooms a P U B L I C Civil and Human Right, and an exception or exemption of an unusual type. To me it's almost like granting special rights to somebody because they prefer the missionary position... it just doesn't make and sense, and I still think it's something that never SHOULD have been made a political issue of in any way. Having said that though, it has become such a huge issue primarily because of the military's historical (hysterical and hypocritical as well, by the way) abhorence of it, which went right along with a lot of other crazy discriminations they used to force on people in service...

- There's a way in which the "Don't Ask - Don't Tell" policy is working pretty well, as a compromise policy. But notice, that has not stopped people from blurting out their homosexual orientations nor claiming they have been discriminated against!

[BLUEHAWK]

P.S.

Practically every single news magazine, TV news program, and Talk Radio show is discussing this matter...

Nothing else to talk about...?

I know, it'll all change pretty quick now to some other issue... wanna bet it pops up again in an even more complete form one day fairly soon?

[reeb]

TO EACH HIS/HER OWN.

I also have friends that are Gay, but they dont hit on me and I dont hit on them.

Think this over

A common Law Marriage is recognized in each and every State of the USA, it you committed the marriage that recognizizes the marriage. Tx Family Code 911.

You have to do two of three things to make that Common Law Marriage legal.

Co Habit
Represent to the public that you are married
comsanate (sp) , you know. Making Love.

the States has to recognize it and it will take a Divorce Court to get out of it ( legally)..

Other than that the Military is a State ( in reality) , it represents all of the USA.

enough.........

[BLUEHAWK]

Well Reeb,
that's the way it OUGHTA be, but it ain't gonna get that way for a long long long long time..so, Gay Marriage (if legalized nationally, or in more and more States) is GOING to have an effect on military morale and preparedness/unit cohesion (whether it SHOULD or not is a separate discussion), because it will take away from command priorities in the field, and money back home...or so it seems, to me anyhow.

And, there IS such a thing as a homosexual predator out there trying to comsanate (I like that spelling of it!)... a fairly dangerous activity I'd say, amongst a bunch of well-trained and heavily armed warriors.

[BLUEHAWK]

Today, and in the past couple of days, the pundits and partisans are debating whether Gay Marriage should be called the euphemism "civil union" or "marriage"...whichever, the legal ramifications will be identical for the military.

[reeb]

Blue,

Like I said, To each his/her own.

Where they go and do their "thing" is up to them, but the Man/Woman upstairs will separate them (I guess).

I mean hell man, you only live once on this earth so make the best of what you can get and have or accomplished.

Personally, I STILL LOVE THE "TACOS"....................

enough.............

[BLUEHAWK]

Reeb -

I believe we, as vets, would agree however, that if and when "to each his/her own" begins to or does threaten military preparedness and effectiveness, then all of us had best immediately get real serious about personal freedoms vs. selfless duty, and to protecting and defending our country from ALL enemies foreign or domestic.

Right?

[reeb]

Blue,

If tactics got right down and dirty as to never see the daylight for a couple of days cause you are stuck in a bunker, What you rather have with you?

I wouldnt give a darn , as long as they carry their weight, just like the rest.

(personally, I would like to be there with a 5ft5in Wac,Wave.Waf, about 130 pounds>) Ha Ha...

I know where you are coming from Blue, and respect all your posts and replies. Especially the last one. Makes ALOT of sense to me, but to alot of others, WELL!!!!!

enough.......

[BLUEHAWK]

Hi Reeb -

Yes, in a firefight etc., or even in a warehouse or office, what matters is carrying a full share of the weight... and I have little doubt homosexuals have, can and will always do so.

The issue here is marriage. The military has a hard enough time coping with heterosexual marriage, dependents and other relationships as it is.

They talking heads are still talking about all over the place...me included.

[philly]

Everyone wants to be the good guy and say, "It's their choice", but the simple truth is legalizing Gay marriages affects an entire nation and it's Military not just the people who are involved.

Many considerations and allowances would need to be made for Gay couples. The policy on "Don't ask don't tell" would have to be abolished. Housing, for Gay couples, would need to be provided. Our soldiers would need to be given classes on tolerance and acceptance of Gays in our Military. Our Military leaders would need to accept the Gay culture in our Military in order for our troops to do same. It is so much more complex than chucking it off as "It's their choice". Our nation isn't ready for same sex marriages.

just my 2 cents..

[Keith_Hixson]

I had two gay men as neighbors. I got along well with both of them. They would come over and borrow tools from me, and we would make polite conversation. I am not a bigot but I am against gay marriage.

1. The gay life style violates nature. The main purpose for sexual activity in God's creation is procreation. Two women, two men just don't get it.
2. It violates the established norms that have been established by society for thousands of years.
3. It violates Biblical morality!

If gay folks want to participate in their gay activity I am not going to lead hate campaigns against them. However, I do not want them to force me to accept their life style which I believe it biologically wrong, and morally wrong. In a church I pastored many years ago one of our members had a daughter who was a military nurse, she had a companion throughout her military career who was also a military nurse, when they retired from the military they bought a house together and lived together. I was informed by family members they were lesbians. They would occassionally come to church when they visit their family. I believe they were good officers and nurses (one was colonel and the other a Lt Colonel). But, if the military had known or they had come out of the closet they wouldn't have been able to finish their military careers. I am absolutely certain that folks must have had their suspicions but no one ever filed a complaint. I can I handle that but to flaunt that which I believe isn't normal makes me angry.
Allowing folks to openly practice their gay lifestyle in the military would be disasterous for the military.

Keith

[BLUEHAWK]

Keith and Philly -
That's the thing lately, it is so much constantly in the public face, every where one turns... people just aren't let to be what they want to be on the deal.

But, as I've been writing to Reeb, when it causes trouble in the services then that's a kind of trouble nobody wants or needs, now or ever.

Thanks for your views. Maybe someone with good sense in a position to prevent the marriages will see what we are talking about here.

[blues clues]

Keith if I have a "choice" between mans law or God's law mans law is out, it isn't normal fact is fact.
razz

[philly]

Hi Keith,

I agree with your commentary. I'm glad you shared your perspective as a Pastor and Veteran.

Personally, I think the whole Gay culture is getting way too bold with their sexuality. The message being spread to our youth is that it's okay to be Gay or Bisexual. Here in the San Jose area, it's a fad to sexually experiment with the same sex.

If one openly opposes the "Gay" way of life, one is accused of being homophobic.

[BLUEHAWK]

I don't oppose their way of life, and until Jesus himself has something to say about it I don't feel qualified to morally condemn them either. In fact, I feel a lot of compassion for the way their lives have gotten made so public, so often, so many places throughout the world... partly by their choice or permission, but mostly due to them being cynically manipulated like the rest of us for political reasons. The quiet simple lifestyles most of them live, and had lived throughout our history, got turned upside down and exposed... for no good reason other than economic and social objectives. I do not believe that anything some of them do in private can actually be regarded as being particularly bizarre when compared with what goes on some in mainstream bedrooms, if anything does. Whether it's genetic or a learned tendency or neither or both, is utterly irrelevant. It exists, and our young should know about it, right along with all the rest of their sexual education which we often miserably fail to provide them. We gotta trust our own kids to make good choices, and we must teach them to live with their own decisions too.

That horse is WAY out of the barn by now. Hardly a day goes by that there isn't some new flap about it in the papers, TV, radio or on the streets.

Mostly it's just embarassing to me, for them and for humanity to even have to discuss the matter. It is the height of hypocrisy for the Anglican church to now claim moral superiority about the election of a gay Episcopal Bishop, knowing as everyone surely always did that gays and lesbians have also staffed their, and Roman Catholic, churches and nunneries for centuries.

If the activists have their way, and they're pushin' it REAL hard here lately, there will come a day when someone tries to force the military to accept homosexual marriage. They do not have to do this, but looks like they will.

[philly]

Hi Blue,

Let's just say Gay relationships are not immoral for the sake of argument. How do you refute it being against the laws of nature? Wouldn't the male human being have been born with two sexual organs? In order for any male human being to have a sexual relationship with another male, most of them have to violate their anal cavities. The skin and muscle becomes stretched to the point that they have to wear anal plugs. There is a horrific torturous act that some of them do and it is called "Fisting". I'm not going to elaborate on what that act is but it's pretty sick stuff. So, I'm not convinced that same sex relationships do not violate nature's laws..

[BLUEHAWK]

Hi Philly -
Can't disagree with how you characterize things there... I worked & raised my family in San Francisco almost 20 years... saw some stuff that'd turn both our stomachs along those lines, IN PUBLIC no less. One of the reasons I left that area was to get away from their culture day in and day out, although most of the folks in that community are not nearly so blatant...or sick. They're just tryin' to be happy, joyous and free like the rest of us.

Maybe its a lot like war in a way, as far as being against the laws of nature? What I mean is that just because it is POSSIBLE to do any given thing, does not mean it HAS to be done. I, for one, regard war as being more disgusting and abhorent than others seem to... sorta like "fisting", or the ultimate snuff film.

Anyhow, we'd maybe agree that from all evidence some of the things heterosexuals do are pretty far out there too, and just as stigmatized. Most people recall the Jimmy Swaggart story, and, "...what the meaning of IS is.", etc., hard to get past those either.

I just would hate to see it all end up having to be sanctioned by the UCMJ is all, and it sure does appear that a steamroller is well underway toward that result, right now.

We do live in a free society, where any behavior that creates a percentage in dollars is more likely to survive than ones less so.

[Boats]

Keep it in the closet - and move along. What I don't know won't hurt me but what I do know is that this is something or a subject that can't be really understood nor accepted by the majority +1 me.

[BLUEHAWK]

Yessiree Boats!

If only...

Cover illustration for THE WEEK magazine, August 15th issue, includes these words:

"Gays At The Threshold: Just how much liberation will America accept?"

Won't be long now before "married" gay expatriots from Canada in our services will be demanding child support enforcement...

[Keith_Hixson]

There is nothing so hypocritic as those who believe in abortion and gays rights portraying themselves as morally superior. Balderdash! What is wrong is wrong. Murder is Murder, Stealing is stealing, Lying is lying, and because you believe stealing is okay makes you morally superior. People that think that way know they aren't morally superior but are just trying to cover up their own guilt.
At one time the Episcopal Church in America was one of the largest denominations in the United States. At the present time they are one of the smaller denominations. The talk in clery circles is that they will continue their downward spiral. People want to believe in values, they want to know right from wrong, they want to know their is evil and their is good. You can't always mix them make a gray that is superior. We kid ourselves when we get rid of time honored standards of morality and consider ourselves more moral. :d: We have already observed that churches who cater to gays eventually close their doors. Gays aren't especially religious and eventually these congregations fade away and fold. Only in large cities with large gay populations do you have gay churches which actually maintain a congregation. The demise of the Espiscopal Church of America has been sealed.

Keith

[Seascamp]

This Gay rights business isn?t something I have on my ?A? list of things I worry about but it?s getting close. The full court press lately on Churches, theme parks, TV, TV commercials, Courts, boy scouts, etc., is getting ten toes over the line that separates Gay rights from Gay tyranny and I?m getting concerned that an in your face intimidation deal is coming to fruition. That isn?t going to work at all and will cause a lot of problems for everyone.

I think it would become a total nightmarish quagmire if the Military were to give serious consideration to same sex marriage. Last I checked they are light years behind the general population in even recognizing homosexuality as a reality let alone institutionalizing the practice.

Scamp

P.S.Interesting comments about the Episcopal Church Keith. I watched some of the debate over the election of the Gay Bishop and wondered how much was hype and how much was reality, but it seemed there was a lot of strong opposition to the election. But then a few years ago they got into a serious flail over ordaining female Priests. That appears to have gone down without too much aggravation but that issue may not have been as supercharged as the Gay Bishop issue is. Well see what happens I suppose

My only experience with the Episcopal Church was that it was the unofficial but preferred USN Church. So during boot camp that?s where us boots were taken for mandatory Church call. These days that Church Call round up would probably cause all kinds of grief and aggravation for the Navy, but times change.

[BLUEHAWK]

Scamp -
Like you, this deal was not on my list of high priority interests... until recently.

A day does not go by without something else coming up on the topic... but not yet (so far as I know) has the connection we are making on this thread being discussed by anyone else.

Hard to guess what might be the response of the DOD when their first gay marriage case comes up, all things considered.

"Don't ask - Don't tell" might just get blown out of the water by fiat.

[BLUEHAWK]

Update:

Yesterday it was reported that Jerry Falwell is agitating on his web site and in person for the addition of an amendment to our Constitution which would effectively ban gay marriage.

In my opinion this is a foolhardy effort, for one reason: polarizing actions of that magnitude do nothing but inflame the opposition and escalate the conflict.

[BLUEHAWK]

Update (August 21st, 2003)

New AP poll (conducted Aug 8-12) results today on this topic:

54% of us would be in favor of a constitutional amendment specifying that marriage should be between a man and a woman.

52% of us would favor a law that would ban gay marriages.

49% of us would be less likely to support a presidential candidate who favored gay marriage.

44% of us would be less likely to support a candidate who favored gay civil unions.

53% of us would oppose a gay civil union law that provided the same rights and benefits as heterosexual married couples.

A thin margin, at best. Undecideds averaged only 5%...

[Gunner Carvo]

Isn't freedom of sexual preference listed in the constitution somewhere? I think it would be wrong of us to say, "Sure, you can vote. Yep, say what you want about the government or who ever pissed in your cheerios today. Praise that compost heap if you feel the need. BUT KEEP THAT PECKER OUT OF YOUR MOUTH, SON! I have met some people in the military who have an unpopular life style. I even became friends with a couple of them. It didn't make them any less of a Sailor, Soldier, or otherwise!

[Gunner Carvo]

Housing, for Gay couples, would need to be provided? What the hell would they need special housing for, more closet space? That comment made no sense.

"Our soldiers would need to be given classes on tolerance and acceptance of Gays in our Military." Where have you been? Have any of you gone to the PX, NEX, etc. lately? If you know what to look for you will notice more homosexual people than you probably care to. But, they go unnoticed a majority of the time. Why? The same reason there are so many jokes about the Navy being gay in general. When your stuck on a ship out to sea for weeks at a time people do stupid sh_t to amuse themselves and/or others such as smacking each other on the ass. Are they gay? Ballplayers do it all time on national television. It doesn't necessarily mean they are gay, just comfortable enough with themselves and his/her shipmates to do stupid sh_t knowing that there is no sexual meaning behind it. Not to mention, we don't care if FC2 and IT2 are going to go home and blow each other as long as they show up, do their jobs, and fullfil their enlistment contracts to the best of their abilities.

[philly]

Not everyone shares your opinion on Gay relationships and marriages. You have every right to be pro Gay, but I don't have to like what you believe is an okay life style! Where did I come from? Let's see, I did a tour in the Military and I never once came across anyone that was tolerant of a dude getting or giving a blow job to another guy. Where I come from, that's pretty discusting business...

[BLUEHAWK]

Gunner -
What we started talking about is the effect MARRIAGE between gays would have on the military...

No, it ain't listed in the Constitution... none of 'em ever thought of any such a possibility, specifically.

Now it seems we gotta, or had better.

Of course they are not any less of anything, that ain't the point.

Picture it Gunner, picture what would happen if a Gunnery Sarge or Chief Petty had to deal with gay marital issues... MARITAL issues Gunner, not Gay issues.

[BLUEHAWK]

Update:

Last night on MSNBC Judge Robert Bork said that he believes gay marriage will become legalized with the next two to three years. That is saying quite a lot coming from a jurist of his background.

[Gunner Carvo]

Philly, Christians say the same things about Jews. Plus, the Christians didn't look at Druidism as "an okay lifestyle" so they slaughtered them all across the UK until they were gone. There has been discrimination against those of "alternative lifestyles" for centuries. Just because you find it disgusting does not make it wrong. I find broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, and almost every vegetable disgusting, but I'm not telling you that it should be against the law to have them on the same plate as a steak!

I'm not pro-gay. I'm just a heterosexual male who has been exposed to enough homosexual people that were cool with me (never hit on me after hearing I'm straight) to know that I have no conflict with them. I have no reason to afraid of them or hateful towards them.

What happened to the "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? It's their lives, they have liberty, let them pursue their happiness; gay, straight, or otherwise.

You're right, Mike, a marital issue. Chief deal with those all the time. The only difference I see is the guy would be talking about his husband, not his wife.

[Keith_Hixson]

The Brimstone will start to fall. Every society that has tolerated a homosexual life style has fallen from moral decay. It will happen in America Also. Good Bye America, Good Bye!

Keith

[BLUEHAWK]

Gunner, Philly & Keith -

Recent poll, 54% of Americans favor gay marriage.

There be lies, damn lies, and statistics...

[Keith_Hixson]

Anyone can poll and interpret the results to suit their belief system.

Other polls put it at less than 10%

Keith

[BLUEHAWK]

Keith -
The one quoted was from NPR (where else?)... broadcast last Wednesday morning.

Like I said, lies, damn lies, and statistics.

[theoddz]

You said in your previous post:

"If I were young soldier in the Military now, I would refuse to room with a Gay female soldier. Why would I want to share a room with a Gay female when they think like a man? "

Now wait just one cotton-pickin' second.

1. I am a lesbian.
2. I served my country proudly in the US Marine Corps.
3. I NEVER (nor will I ever) made ANY advances towards "straight" women.
4. I am VERY PROUD to be a WOMAN and I DO NOT "think like a man".


I think your ignorance is showing.

:d: :d: :d: :d: :d: :d:

[Arrow]

Keith,

I'm proud of your courage as a pastor to take your stand on this issue. It's not easy and it's not popular. I know you are a kind man and would do anything for anyone in needwithout exception or prejudice. You are alsomandated to tell the truth of scripture and you have not backed down from that appointment.I'm standingright next to you with nothing but admiration for your courage to say the unpopular thing in this politically correct culture.

For anyone that thinks otherwise I want to tell you this man has a foster daughter that he loved as his own murdered some years ago when she stopped to help a couple of men broke down on the side of the road. He struggled with his anger toward them but through the grace of God was able to go and minister to them in prison, release his anger and forgive them.

This my friends is what a true Christian is. The examples of Christianity that Gunner mentionshave nothing at all to do with New Testament Christianity and everything to do with a Political Movement driven by a false religion under the guise of Christianity. I'm truly sorry that more folks do not take the time to know the difference.

And yes Jesus does have many things to say in regard to the practice of homosexual behavior. He also has many things to say abouthetrosexual practices.Those words are not for our undoing but to keep us emotionally and physically healthy.

There is absolutely no justification for harm done against any one that practices unsafe sex be it hetrosexual or homosexual. We will come in harms way soon enough if we choose to practice lifestyles thatare full of risk for sexually transmitted disease and death.

I too have spent my time in the bay area and I can tell you that what isknown as the"Gay" lifestyle is not so "Gay" after all esp for those that have lost so many friends toAIDS.Those I knew personally werekind and sweet people.They were better to me and my children than some members of myown family.They died hard deathsbefore their time.Talented,kind and compassionate souls that would give you the shirt off their backnow gone from this planet because of a deadly life style they wereaddicted to.

If this dicussion is to continue let's try to state our views in a civil manner and without hostility.

Arrow>>>>>>

[BLUEHAWK]

Amen Arrow...

It IS just that tiny percent, of ANY group, who will make stuff miserable for everyone else, take advantage, give decency a bad name whenever possible, take liberties, use force where none is called for nor asked...

Being the recipient of a homosexual assault is not fun... imagining HOW on earth the military is gonna deal with gay marriage (civil union rights and privileges etc.) when/if it does come to pass is practically impossible.

[philly]

Frankly, I don't care if you're a lesbian! Don't expect me or any other straight female soldier to feel comfortable living with a lesbian.

Just to let you know, I did not make a statement based on no experience of my own. I have been hit on by lesbians. Some were aggressive in nature while others were not. Some knew how to take rejection, while others did not.

Since lesbians are attracted to women, not just Gay women, don't you think I have every right to feel uncomfortable with living with one??? According to your post, I do not.

I made a general statement that lesbians think like men. I shouldn't have made such a broad statement. That I see now. Some lesbians I have known stated they have never been attracted to a men. What is a straight person to think? Since lesbians are attracted to women, then there's a fair amount of uncomfortable feelings a straight woman would have rooming with a lesbian. As far as ignorance, when you attack someone for their beliefs, you show your ignorance.

I don't choose to continue this discussion with you. :d: :d:

[Stick]

Bob and I went to D-3-1, Ft. Benning for basic on the same day. Finished together and went on to Ft. Puke together. Finished together and went on to Ft. Ritchie, Maryland, H&S Co. Bob was a beutician before he enlisted but it didn't mean nuthin and he was a good troop. Joanne and I got married the first time at Ft. Ritchie and Bob was my best man. After about a year I got ordered to STRATCOM CONUS in Suitland, Md. and Bob stayed at Ft. Ritchie. Worked as a classified mail courier at CONUS and did a 21 day TDY in Korea while there but most of it was uneventful. Bob and I still kept in touch because I had to go up to Ritchie several times to take papers up there. One day I got some papers, orders that had to be brought up to Ritchie and low and behold, Bob's name was on them. He was going to AnKhe with the First Cav. on August 24, '67. I hated bring those orders up there but when I returned the next day I was handed orders. Turns out that my orders read that I was to go to the 1st APU in QuiNhon on August 24, '67. Bob and I flew into TonSanNhut on the same plane. Bo and I saw each other often up until when I was transfered to the guard detachment because I had to bring documents to AnKhe. Bob got out a little early because he DEROS'd within 90 days of his ETS. I didn't learn how to walk well enough by my DEROS so I had to stay until my ETS.
When Bob got back to the World he bought a beuty shop in Akron, Ohio. He probably was "gay" but the subject never came up and it just didn't mean nuthin and I didn't give a damn. I know Bob would be there for any Troop and they could depend on him to do whatever it took.
Seems to me that being a soldier and being a husband are two different things and you can be good at both.
BTW; I was an E-3 when I first got married. Post housing wasn't offered unless you were an E-4 NCO and even then you had to pay rent. I had to rent some off base housing when Jo and I got married.
The Bible tells me that I should take a Wife not a man. The state issued our a marriage licience but didn't have a damn thing to say to us when we were going steady. If someone wants to go steady with someone of their own sex then the state doesn't have a damn thing to say about it. It's only when they come for that licience that they can say anything and refuse that licience.
Gay? I just don't care.
Use my tax dollars to flaunt your gayness? No way!!!!!!!

[theoddz]

Gay marriage, or the legal equivalent, is coming soon. You'd better get used to dealing with it.

Whether or not you feel "comfortable" around me or not, based on my sexual orientation is not my concern. I'm not hitting on you. Quite frankly, I think you flatter yourself.

I am quite comfortable with my orientation and I believe that, if there is any "problem", it is yours. It is not my job to make you "comfortable". I'd be willing to bet that you have been/are now among lesbian friends and associates, but just don't know it. As a matter of fact, I feel an uncanny urge to join the gay lobby!!! Thanks for your motivational support!!!

:D :D :D :D

[philly]

Seems to me you are a hateful type person who wants nothing more to insult people who are not like you or think like you. Your true colors show right through.

If you plan to further insult me, I'll allow the moderator to respond to your messages.

[theoddz]

No one is "insulting" you. I think you are a bit "overly sensitive" to the situation. I didn't realize that there were so many "lesbian rapists" on the loose chasing fine, upstanding heterosexual women like yourself.

If the moderators believe me to be out of line with my responses, I would be more than happy to talk to them, at your request or at anyone else's. I've been posting here for a couple of years now and I've always felt free to express my feelings about many topics. I still feel free to do this. I am not attacking you, but I do feel like I am appropriate in responding to your posts which have criticized my orientation and and insinuated that I, or people of similar orientation, have perpetrated some sort of "crime" against you. As a matter of fact, it is your attitude that is the fertile field of hate and violence and causes things like gay bashings to occur. I've yet to see, read or hear about any cases of a group of homosexuals/lesbians beating a poor heterosexual to death (ie., the case of Matthew Sheppard). This is how I have interpreted your posts, and now I am responding.

I am in no way "hateful", believe me!! In the South, we have a saying. It's called "Hit dog hollers first".

Peace.

[Arrow]

Theo,

All of us have stated our feelings in an open and forthright way. Some have agreed with you and some have not. That does not mean those that disagree should be accused of fermenting hate and violence against homosexuals.

You have gone from the general disagreement with a lifestyle toa specific horrendous murder of a young man that became a target for those that have no tolerance at all for the homosexual community. I nor anyone that has disagreed with you on this threadcondones violence against homosexuals and not one statement that has been made gives any indication of that sentiment.

Because the discussion has takena negativepersonal tone and strayed from the intent of the original poster I believe nothing can be gained by keeping it open.

Arrow>>>>>>>>>