Korean War II?

[BLUEHAWK]

I'm putting this poll in the Conflicts Forum for two reasons:

1) I regard the opinions of Korea vets a lot more highly than anyone else's, now that sabers are rattling again on the topic.

2) Since we are living in a Republic, and since some lawmakers/diplomats probably prowl Patriot Files, maybe they will see your thoughts and take them into account.

[BLUEHAWK]

Today, August 5th 2003, there are putatively responsible experienced and high-ranking professionals appearing on television and in recent print media advocating, strongly, what amounts to an all-out pre-emptive attack upon North Korea, as an "unavoidable" alternative to failing or frustrated multilateral diplomacy.

Question:
Unless the attack is so ferocious as to virtually destroy what is left of North Korean industrial power and ALL military defenses, and unless such an attack would regard unimaginable "collateral damage" as acceptable, then what possible military or moral justification for it could possibly exist!

[the humper]

justification?????? Try the last 50 years, those civilians in the North have been in an on Earth, HELL!!!!|
SF
NC

[BLUEHAWK]

Humper -
Okay, then since that is true (and I agree that it IS true), why have the North Korean people been allowed to languish in suffering for 50 years?

It's a rhetorical question actually, not that it helps one bit to ask it... I have some ideas of my own why that was let go. But now that they are said to have nukes, the problem is JUST becoming critical? I mean, suffering people wasn't a good enough reason to act, we had to wait until it got MORE dangerous to start upping it on the priority list?

Guess so... wonder when we're gonna get around to it.

[the humper]

best way to answer your question, by my way of thinking is, TYRANNY!!!!!! Same type Hitler used. Just as confined and as ruthless. Now, IF they have nukes, that's another question, that can be solved, with many casualties, by destroying them with a first strike. As they have had 50+ years to, even seem to think they wanted to live with the rest of the world. But that is harder than hell to do, when you want to be the great Ruler, Dictator or whatever. (And as to your poll, couldn't disagree more with the results)
SF
NC

[BLUEHAWK]

Humper -
I disagree with the poll results myself...

Here's another question for you:

Assuming a day came for there to be that first big strike, given the enormity of their ground forces (saying nothing about their training or equipment), what do you think the chances would be that a) they'd launch weapons against South Korea, b) they'd attempt to send troops across the 38th parallel again, and c) what would China's most likely response be to a first strike?

[the humper]

would certainly launch what was left, without a doubt. 3. Same with the forces and would have to fight the remnants of the S. Korean forces. 3. China would watch as for now they can't send enough firepower, far enough, to get in an ass-kicking contest.
SF
NC
McArthur wanted to go into China and use the bombs necessary, but, he didn't have the last sayso. And, that was good, cause if he had his way, I wouldn't be here now. And another thing, I never saw his butt on the lines shooting at anybody. Him, and his underlings, in Japan, where the cause of the army getting the shit kicked out of them when they were thrown in piecemeal in the early fighting. They had absolutely NO training for the task in front of them, plus they were fighting folks who had been fighting for 10+ years with the Chinese Communist. And the other part of the story about the Command in Japan, his S-2, Willoughby was nothing but a yesman for him. When he was asked, directly by a Colonel in charge of the intelligence for the 1st Marine Division, if the Chinese would enter into the war, his statement was, if they did, it would only be some volunteers. And our forces had already captured hundreds of them, BEFORE they showed up in force.

[BLUEHAWK]

Thanks for the enlightenment Humper...

If it ain't too personal, for what reason would you not be here if MacArthur had gone into China with the bombs necessary?

[the humper]

The life expectancy of a Machine Gunner, on the lines 24/7 is not to long. In fact, in one night, 14 hrs. total, in my squad alone, we lost all but myself and 1 other, K-WIA.
SF
NC
(And I guess we did make a little peace for some S. Koreans for 50+ years)

[DMZ-LT]

Welcome home , Humper. Thank you for your service. Welcome home again.

[BLUEHAWK]

Humper -
I see what you were meaning... god awful odds.

I'm glad you are here, sandstorm comin' on

Later

[the humper]

When you see a reply from me, it's for the others who were never able too!!!!!!
And believe me, I'm mighty glad to be their representative!!!!
SF
NC

[DMZ-LT]

Same , same Humper. Thanks again

[MORTARDUDE]

Welcome Home Humper !

Thanks for your service !

Larry

[BLUEHAWK]

Extraordinarily fine and lengthy article about North Korea, in September 8, 2003 issue of The New Yorker:


"Letter From Korea: Alone in the Dark", Is Kim Jong Il just a madman, or does he know exactly what to do to survive?

by: Philip Gourevitch
Pages 54 - 75

Very persuasive case for a UN-sanctioned or multilateral military effort to rid that region of another dangerous criminal despot... nukes or not.

[the humper]

Thought so, we've been there, done that. Folks in the New Yorker are now coming around to the questions you put forth, here. ( And some, don't keep up with affairs in that region or the survey wouldn't be as it reflects, cause 50+ years has not made a difference)
SF
NC
And the answers, shouldn't change!!!!!

[BLUEHAWK]

Humper -
I'm sure you are right about that, man...

This is the first article of its kind I've seen in that magazine, which reaches a gazillion people, so I'm hoping it will have some effect on thinking around this country, or maybe even on PF.

Thing is, it could have been even longer... its a pretty scary piece of writing as it is.

I have come to the conclusion that 50 years has not made a difference, too.

[skeeter]

To All You Good Men, Mort, Humper, DMZ-Lt, and all the others here I failed to mention, I'm pleased to be in your company. I served my time(24 yrs. Navy) and spent 20 months piloting a Navy jet over N. Korea. I think I had it good, at least had a warm meal each day, and a warm bed to lay my head. I had a brother in the 1st Calvery there at the same time I was there(9/51-9/53). I feel for you when you had to spend time in that miserable cold mountain country, and there is not one part of it worth one American serviceman life.
I would like to say, if we went back there today, we could not win. Those N. Korean are better trained and fighter than what was there in the early 50's. But if asked, I would climb back in that cockpit and do the same.. Only this time, I want to pick where I'm to drop the bombs. I hope you understand,, no American should leave a front line in defeat.

[the humper]

There is NOTHING more pleasing in a Grunts' eyes, than when they have to take the next objective, than to look overhead and see a plane coming in, blowing the hell out of your objective. Certainly helped us, MANY times and THANK YOU!!!
SF
NC

[BLUEHAWK]

Skeeter -
Welcome, from a zoomie... glad to have you aboard!

[BLUEHAWK]

humper -

Is it safe to say today that people have become fairly assured that the President and his folks have got North Korea's threat under control?

[skeeter]

Bluehawk;

Sometimes, it is quiet before the storm.. Let's hope the wicked giant is sleeping for another 50 years..

But the President may open his lips and jaws and utter the wrong words, causing undo noise to wake the wicked giant.

[Robert Ryan]

I was with the 2nd ID from Oct 1975-Nov 1976. I was there when two american officers were axed to death over a tree. It seems that the US is responsible for the up keep of the grounds at the peace village. In Aug 1975 a Korean worker was trimming a tree. He was told to stop by a North Korean Guard. The worker told him he was doing his job. The North Korean Guard told him if he didn't stop he would kill him. The Korean worker informed the US commader about the problem. The worker was taken back to the tree under escort, and continued to trim the tree. A confrontation took place, and North Korean Guards picked up two axes and killed the american commander and his xo. We went on full alert, drew our basic load, and was ready to move out to our contingent areas. My Battalion was assigend the job of blocking off the Qui Jon Bou valley. President Carter decided to have the tree blown down. That was the extent of our retalation for what the guards did.