Legion or VFW Member?!?

[BLUEHAWK]

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the American Legion, VFW or one of their auxilliary groups?

Do you believe that american vets must have our service organizations take IMMEDIATE political action, en masse, in Washington to help vets get their rights restored and protected in Congress and the White House?

What are your experiences with the Legion and VFW?

Do you realize that too few Vietnam, Desert Storm or other vets under age 60 are members of AL or VFW? :md: :cd: :d: :n: :r: :t: :ek: :( :ad:

[theoddz]

I would be more than happy to join a service organization.....if I could find one that would have me.

It's a shame that, as a 100% service connected disabled veteran, I cannot join the DAV (I was not injured and did not serve during a period of war). I would LOVE to be a part of an organization that lobbies and assists my fellow vets. I feel that I have a lot to offer.

I guess they don't want a female, non-combat-disabled veteran drinking beer with them at their membership halls. I fail to feel sorry for these organizations when they whine about their "shrinking memberships" when they reject those of us who could help to bolster their memberships and bring "new blood" into the mix.

Aren't we who served during peacetime just as valuable as our brothers and sisters who served during wartime?? After all, we "stood the watch" too and could have been called to go to war when we served, too.

Just my 2 cents.

[BLUEHAWK]

WHAT!

They have got to be crazy not to "allow" female members!

It never occured to me that this was the reason no women, other than auxilliary, are ever at meetings!

Whoever wears the dang uniform has got to be welcome. This is nuts!

Now I really DO feel stupid.

I'm bringin' this up the very next time we meet. I might even have to cause a heated discussion about it.

On behalf of my imbecilic comrades, please accept a sincere apology.

Geez...

[theoddz]

Thanks Blue, for your support.

I think that the fact that I am a PEACETIME vet is more the issue than my gender. What I resent about these service organizations is that they don't recognize my disabled status or my service for membership because I am not "combat disabled" and did not serve overseas or during a period of war. I served stateside during peacetime, so guess I am SOL.

DAV: Ineligible for membership because I am not COMBAT disabled. Up until lately, what female vet is??

American Legion: Ineligible for membership because I did not serve overseas.

Veterans of Foreign Wars: Ineligible for membership because I didn't serve overseas during a period of war.

AMVETS: They will have me.

I have ceased feeling sorry for the DAV, VFW and American Legion when they whine about their shrinking membership rolls. It seems like they should welcome all vets, male and female, who did "our bit". In these days and times when it is so essential that our service organizations have the numbers and the resources to lobby Washington for better veterans' benefits and rights, NO VET should be excluded, dammit!!!!!!! :d: :d: :d:

[MORTARDUDE]

Great post and great points !!! It shows how many veterans have been alienated by these "service organizations" over the years. They really need to get their collective act togeter...and soon.

Larry

[BLUEHAWK]

Everyone would agree, know what to do and getting it done are quite different things...

What I am hoping is that other service org members will see this, or will have already thought of it and might be inspired to make a point...

The way I see it is to ask all female vets to picket their local service orgs, and be sure to let the newspaper reporters know in advance.

For my part, I intend to bring it up every chance that comes up.

I ain't pleased about this situation.

Its stupid in this day and age.

[sfga6970]

The eligibility requirements for the American Legion do not require that you serve overseas. The dates of your service is what determines your eligibility. If you tell me your dates of active military service I can tell you whether or not you are eligible to join. Congress sets date parameters for times of conflict and those are the periods of time that the Legion uses. All those with honorable service, both male and female, are welcome.

[BLUEHAWK]

sfga -
Thanks for some good news...

[sfga6970]

With regard to your first post, I agree that many Legion Posts are dying because they haven't recruited "new blood" and the older members make all the decisions. That is not good for the organization. Our Post has made a determined effort to constantly recruit for new members and keep the organization growing. The majority of the active members are Vietnam and Desert Storm vets. Currently our Post Commander and all three Vice Commanders are Vietnam vets as are the last two Past Commanders. The Executive Committee, which makes all the major decisions for the Post has 10 Vietnam vets and two Korean War vets. The younger people are running our Post.

We continue to recruit new members in the town and contact them when they return from service. We also distribute blue star flags to the families of active service people and give free memberships to those on active duty. We sponsor the Memorial Day parade and Veterans Day parade in the town and have an open house at the Post with all invited, both marchers and spectators. This is where we do a lot of recruiting, on Memorial Day we signed up six new members.

As for dealing with VA, we are very successful. Once a year we bring in the VA service officer to sign people up for their hospital benefits card. Ads in the local newspapers for a month before the event alert all veterans (members or not) that the service will be available. Last year we had more than fifty vets attend to register with the VA.

Our Post feels that it takes work to keep the Organization alive, healthy and growing and we are willing to work at it.

Current eligibility dates since Vietnam:
Vietnam 02/28/61 - 05/07/75
Lebanon/ Grenada 08/24/82 - 07/31/84
Panama 12/20/89 - 01/31/90
Persian Gulf 08/02/90 - Current
If you served even one day of your enlistment in any of these periods you are eligible. Again, I wish to add that these dates are determined by the US Government, not the Legion.

Sorry if I rambled.

Regards,

Paul Cain
Vice Commander
AL Post 334 Floral Park, NY

[BLUEHAWK]

Thanks Paul -
I see what has happened in my thinking now... I was viewing the health of the Legion from the standpoint of the experience I am having thusfar in it, which is as described... almost NO other Vietnam or Desert Storm vets at all, ever, and NO women vets either. I see that this is a local thing now.

I also hope theoddz will see your last post including eligibility dates, so she can figure out if she can join a post in her hometown. If not, then I hope she might consider coming into the auxialliary. It is difficult for me to imagine any post not doing all we could to find some way for ALL vets to take part.

[theoddz]

Well, I've fallen through the cracks again.

My dates of service were 78-81.

Again....peacetime warriors, even though service connected disabled ones, cannot join a service organization, with the ONE exception of AMVETS.

:( :( :(

Ah well.....guess I'll just go join the local Marine Corps League. After all, "Once a Marine, Always A Marine". They don't care when I served, just that I AM a Marine.

[BLUEHAWK]

I'm sorry theodzz, this is disturbing to me too.

Something is out of kilter if a vet is not allowed to join an of the three largest (fast dwindling) service groups. I'm gonna find some kind of a way to make a stink about this.

Bless the Marines... then, now and always.

Welcome Home...

[theoddz]

Any help is appreciated. I also chatted with one of my patients at work (I work in a VA Medical Center) about this. He has something to do with the local DAV chapter here. He has promised that he, too, will make a stink about the exclusion of non-combat disabled peacetime vets being unable/inelgible to join the DAV.

Bless you for your help!!!!!

Semper Fi.

[Tamaroa]

is who I belong to. It is a small group about 1600 sailors, whose common roots are Naval or Coast Guard Service was on a Fleet tug. I served on an ATF aka Auxiliary Tug Fleet. 1730 tons displacement ,205 feet in length. Stronger than an OX. No VFW for me since I did not serve in a war over seas. No American Legion for me because whenever I went to an American Legion Post, they had the flags of 4 services up always leaving us Coasties out.

I guess I could do Amvets but between the Naval Institute, the Tamaroa Maritime foundation and the National Association of Fleet Tugs, I have enough memberships in military organizations.

The Big problem as I see it is that we do not have a common council that unites all of the veterans organizations. If we did we would perhaps be a bigger voting bloc with more people willing to listen.

Bill

[MORTARDUDE]

I have thought about the walls that separate the various "service oragnizations". I listed somewhere on here maybe 15 major ones. Each has its own members and income flow and ideas about how to do what they do. I believe thay also have rules ( mandated by Congress ? ) about who can join which groups. So it becomes basically a turf war, which each group separately bugging the President and Congress and the VA with their complaints which greatly dilutes the effect. If all the groups had one voice they could say ( like the AARP for example ) we have 15,0000,000 ( or whatever number ) folks here that are voting aginst you if you do so and so. The way it is now is a much smaller number. I guess what I am trying to say is that politicians like it the way it is and the groups hold on the power and money they have and as a group all veterans suffer for it.

[BLUEHAWK]

theoddz -
To have a genuine Marine say the words "Semper Fi" to an airman is a tribute the meaning of which you'll never know. Now I get to rib my jarhead buddies that I've been granted this one lifelong wish, and there ain't a thing they can do about it. I plan to rib them several times, in repeat succession too.

Bill -
It grates me no end that USCG flags are not flown at the Legion too, and I'd even go further to include the Merchant Marine of WW II who get squat, even less squat than the Coast Guard. Our service organizations are gonna hafta come up to reality or else. Thanks for reminding me about that. 26,000,000 living vets today, give or take.

Larry -
Yup, united we stand, divided we fall.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
Why are we so slow to grasp these things...

Mike

[BLUEHAWK]

theoddz, Bill, Larry, sfga & others

Just had a thought (very dangerous, I know)...

Didn't we just start being entitled to a campaign ribbon for having served to win the COLD WAR!?! If I understand correctly, anybody who served throughout that whole 50 years or so is eligible to wear the ribbon.

A campaign is a campaign, right?

Wouldn't theoddz be very much entitled to her membership, especially in the Legion, on that grounds alone!

Is this an idea, or what?

[Tamaroa]

turned down by the DOD. there is cold War Commerative medal but it is not authorized to be worn on a uniform. It is for civilian dress only.

You can apply for a DOD sanctioned Cold War Certificate:

"How to Apply for Your Cold War Recognition Certificate
By Jim Garamone
American Forces Press Service
WASHINGTON -- Up to 22 million former and current service members and DoD civilians can start applying for certificates honoring them for their role in winning the Cold War.

Those qualifying for the certificates can apply via the Internet at https://coldwar.army.mil, e-mail at cwrs@fairfax-emh1.army.mil, or fax at (703) 275-6749.

Applicants can also mail requests to:

Cold War Recognition
4035 Ridge Top Road, Suite 400
Fairfax, VA 22030.


Applicants must present proof of service. Army officials caution applicants not to send original documents because they cannot be returned. Applicants must use fax or mail to submit supporting documents.

Persons are eligible for the recognition certificate if they have military or civilian service with the War, Navy or Defense departments between Sept. 2, 1945, and Dec. 26, 1991.

Military or civilian personnel requesting the award must certify that they served honorably and faithfully at any period during the Cold War. Each mailed or faxed request must have official documents verifying their service. Acceptable documents include any government form that includes that includes the applicant's name, Social Security or service or foreign service number and the date of service. Military personnel can also use any of the following documents as proof of service: DD Form 214 (Certificate of Release/Discharge from Active Duty); WD AGO Form 53-55 (War Department Separation Document); or Oath of Office -- Military Personnel or Letter of Appointment.

Qualifying civilian service also can be proved with a Standard Form 50 (Notification of Personnel Action); Standard Form 2809 (Health Benefit Registration Form); an award certificate with employee's name, name of service or agency, and dates; or retirement forms with the employee's name, service or agency and dates.

The Total Army Personnel Command is the executive agent for the recognition project. A telephone help line is available at (703) 275-6279. "

Regards,

Bill

[BLUEHAWK]

Oh well, I'll keep thinkin'

Thanks for all that info Bill, very informative.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Are you now or have you ever been a member of the American Legion, VFW or one of their auxilliary groups?

YES

Do you believe that american vets must have our service organizations take IMMEDIATE political action, en masse, in Washington to help vets get their rights restored and protected in Congress and the White House?

YES

What are your experiences with the Legion and VFW?

They didn't make me feel welcomed at all. needless to say I was the youngest person at the post at the time. Seems I didn't earn thier respect to be called a Vet.

Do you realize that too few Vietnam, Desert Storm or other vets under age 60 are members of AL or VFW?

Maybe because they don't welcome us? Maybe because a lot of us who volunteered to serve can't join!


:md: :cd: :d: :n: :r: :t: :ek: :( :ad:

[BLUEHAWK]

At what Legion or VFW post have you not been welcomed? And I have never heard of volunteers not being allowed to join.

I volunteered, early Vietnam era, and was welcomed.

What experiences are you talkin' about?

If you've been mistreated we'll have to send a posse over and already have a cranky well-armed impatient garrison in your area... so, what gives?

[Keith_Hixson]

I visited the American Legion site on the web.

You can down load the official application.

There is nothing on the Official Application requiring service over seas.
Only requirement is that you served and it was during a period in which there was a military activity (war or police action).

Go to http://www.legion.org and check it out.

Keith

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK At what Legion or VFW post have you not been welcomed? And I have never heard of volunteers not being allowed to join.
I volunteered, early Vietnam era, and was welcomed.
What experiences are you talkin' about?
If you've been mistreated we'll have to send a posse over and already have a cranky well-armed impatient garrison in your area... so, what gives?

It was the one in my former stomping grounds.
Some of us are not considered Vets, by the standards set by the VFW and AL.
Other than no one close to my age, I just didn't seem to be welcomed and thus I felt I didn't fit in.
No need for a posse, I quit that post and have no intention of joining up again. The only reason I was let in is because I have a Naval Expeditionary Medal with a star, from Bayrot. I heard a few comments that it doesn't count for much. I would have felt a bit stupid knocking this Butt Wipe to the floor and man did he come close.

I've helped at a local VFW with painting and clean up, and I do clean up tasks around the various Veteran Memorials in the town I now live in. But I can't join the VFW, I don't meet the qualifications and I will not join another A.L. Post.

[BLUEHAWK]

Well, most of the guys at my AL Post are definitely quite a bit older than me so that counts for something in their ways, not to mention that most of them are in Last Man clubs basically... so I've been biding my time as a newcomer essentially, just like with any group. I like to listen to their stories, even if from the side, and I do what I can, like you, to help with projects now and then... some of the old guys have been real nice and welcoming to me at times though.

The thought came to me long ago, when they first invited me out for one of their do's... and I saw their ages. What would happen if there were no VFW or AL after those guys are gone... so, for that reason too, I joined up.

Sorry you had a bad experience...

[Terry Cashatt]

I am a Persian Gulf Veteran and was a member of both the American Legion and VFW. I am no longer a member of either. Both are great organizations but our problem was on the local level.
As with many units you just have too few guys trying to do everything. We couldn't get the Vietnam or Gulf War guys interested. I served as Post Commander for 4 years and just got tired of arguing for everything that we did. Again thats just a local thing for us.
On the VFW side of the house, our guys were some of the most bitter folks you would ever want to be around. We had 2-3 guys running the show for years and no one else was going to have a shot.
They pulled some things that were pretty questionable so that was it for me. They started taking guys without checking their records so now they have built up a membership using guys who are not qualified.
Once again, It is just a local thing. I have seen some small posts do some outstanding things. It just isn't here. it's sad too because until all veterans join together to make our voices heard loud anc clear we are just fumbling around!
I withdrew from both organizations and began my own little group. it was not to compete with the big guys. It was to do the things that weren't getting done. We now provide flags for all local cemeteries during Memorial Day. We have been buying them and putting them out for the past 4 years. That is no small task especially with the tornadoes we had go through here last May!
We also have a Nursing Home Ministry, and hold the largest Memorial Day service in this area. We don't argue over what has to be done, we just see a need and go work on it!
We have a lot of veterans and others who although not veterans have a burning desire to help our veterans, active duty personnel and community so we just grouped together!
My website will probably explain it better. We are too small to be a voice to be reckoned with but we are able to get some things done around here.
Thanks for letting me vent a little!
TC
Terry W. Cashatt
www.focusonveterans.com

[darrels joy]

Darrel joined the American Legion and VFW when he retired. He let his AL membership lapse.

Peter was at our house on November 11th after his return from Kosovo (2000). We took him to the nearest VFW post and paid his first year's membership dues. For Darrel's next birthday, Peter paid for his VFW lifetime membership.

Every VFW post is different but all that we have always been made welcome no matter where it is from Michigan to Missouri to Vegas to home in Yakima.

Our VFW post in Yakima works on a variety of military community services from stand downs to parades to school outreach.
They complain about the lack of membership even though they have more than 1,000 members. Some remember the dances they they once held at the old Armory. Lots of good family memories there.
When Peter shows up in there in uniform (or people there talk to each other and find that he is currently serving) he can't buy a drink or drink all the ones they would buy for him.

I am a member of the VFW Ladies Auxillary. When I land a full time permanent job, I will return to active membership at the nearest VFW post.

OPINION: Congress set up the rules for membership. It is my personal belief that they did this (and refuse to change it) to compartmentalize our military veterans making it difficult to lobby congress in support of veterans and dilute the political strength of people they fear (warriors).

Our only effective solution is to join the group that they will allow us membership and work on projects that are joint efforts with other military organizations. Leave the territorial imperitive at home and don't allow the polititians to continue to divide us using rules that they imposed.

Joy

[David Sine]

Just for general information VFW (Veterans Of Foriegn Wars) Membership eligibilty states" The Veterans of Foreign Wars welcomes U.S. Citizens who completed honorable U.S. military service and one of the following 1. Served In Korea. 2.Received hostile fire/imminent danger pay. 3.Received a campaign medal or ribbon for service overseas during time of conflict.
I see nothing stated as gender.It does however leave out the non citizen soldiers of which some have died and received medals for their effort. I do believe the membership is down in most service organizations wonder why ?
Toujours Pret,
Dave

[Jerry D]

I was eligible for most all of the service organizations and decided on the DAV . The AL has sent me several applications. But with limited income you can't join them all. I am a young person so the lifetime membership was a great deal with the easy payment plan :D I have attended one DAV meeting in Waycross,Ga(the nearest chapter). They are a good group but it's a long drive from home so, me and the wife (both regular Life members of DAV) enjoy the magazine and the info on stuff like CRSC that has recently become available covered in the magazine. I do support the VFW thru donations ( they have the best calenders too :) If there was a local organization in my home town I would consider joining it but the nearest VFW post is in Folkston,GA

[MORTARDUDE]

Terry :

Welcome aboard !! Same thing here with my experience with both organizations. I do not believe the national level of these organizations do anything but complain, and do little good all divided as they are.


Larry

[Terry Cashatt]

Larry,
It's a shame, too. There is so much that needs to be done. I write an article for our local paper each week on veterans benefits and military history and such. you would not believe how many guys call me every week because they did not know they could get medication through the VA, not to mention the other benefits! Nothing against the other groups but I don't believe a guy should have to be a member of the AL or VFW just to get what he already deserves! Unless your a member these guys don't get the word!