Whats your thoughts?

[reeb]

Posted by Mother Margaret
Posted on 1/2/04 6:49:01 PM

Have you heard the expression, "The truth is stranger than fiction?" Well, it is the little things that have caused Gulf War Syndrome - I've studied a chemical, that causes all of those symptoms www.valdezlink.com/same.htm

More www.valdezlink.com/gwv1-5.htm

Why the USA can't find the real cause of Gulf War Syndrome www.valdezlink.com/usa_hoodwinked.htm

I think there are a lot of companies that should be sued for negligent failure to disclose hazardous ingredients in products, such as in GUN CLEANERS, and PESTICIDES and JET FUEL.

Let's just call a spade a spade. When you go to the doctor (as this 3 time Vietnam vet did) and ask what causes that leathery skin (where he put his gun) ... call it whatever you please, dermatologist, but it is DEFATTED skin. That's what 2-butoxyethanol in gun cleaners does: defats the skin, and a whole lot more.

This happened to gulf war vet valdezlink.com/as_son.htm

What is going on with the blood will be the proof
See a hematologist & an endocrinologist. Check the blood for these things, don't take no for an answer http://www.valdezlink.com/acute-hematology-overview.htm

Let's get insurance companies & others to fund a real study of what happened to you. www.valdezlink.com/study_needed.htm

[Seascamp]

Yikes!!!!!Someone is spinning half truths again. By law all industrial chemicals and fuels in the work place must have a hazardous material label and a MSDS (material safety data sheet) on file and all employees must be trained accordingly. Same thing with any materials in transit and any modern firehouse has a file of hazardous material information and the training to go with it.

Some chemicals that are absolutely banned in the work place are found on the supermarket or hardware store shelf, have no haz mat label or back up MSDS with the container. So we figure out what lobby is saying that what is mandatory in the work place is not necessary for off the shelf home products and we got a winner.
One of the nastiest and deadliest chems to be found is carbon tetra chloride and was booted out of industry over a decade ago. But that turns out to be the ?super duper stain remover? right in your friendly local grocery store. Same deal with the gas we pump. If ya go inside the fence of any US industrial complex you will see the gas pumps covered with hazmat labels, all kinds of cautionary labels and procedures. These things are not to be seen at any commercial gas station and the store attendant probably never heard of the term MSDS.

So the real question is why the double standard? I see US industry getting it stuck to them again, big time, but let us not hassle the local consumer of off the shelf items or share important information with them, heaven forbid, that may cost some politico a bunch of votes. Curious deal for sure.

As an example, a while back there was an office product called ?whiteout? and was used for printed word correction. Well, that turned out to contain carbon tetra chloride so that stuff vanished instantly and a replacement product was developed. But these days the old stuff is still around in various stationary stores, go figure.

These days I would be dumfounded to learn that US military people are not trained in haz mat proceedures and all labling, etc. on military basses isn't fully up to snuff with the law.

Scamp

[SuperScout]

Perhaps you noticed this bit of whimsical posting in the original, and chose to ignore it, but I couldn't hep myself! How, I asked myself, could leathery skin result from where he placed his "gun"? Has he never heard of KY? Thanks for debunking this!!

[Seascamp]

As to the leather skin deal, ya, I passed on that opportunity, LOL. However as in all conflicts and potential litigation there is always a grain of truth wrapped in the eye of the crap-storm. It?s a true thing that solvents can enter the body through the skin and this is the usual mode of poisoning. Things like carbon tetra chloride, acetone, chemical paint thinners, hydrocarbon fuel distillates, etc, are real travelers and attack the liver and kidneys and can eliminate body fat at the point of contact, but ya really have to go some to do that and there has to be prolonged exposure, I mean a long time and by that time other serious internal ailments have arrived. That is not to say a specific individual cannot have a severe reaction and advanced damage with minimal contact. But that would be the exception, not the rule. So I?d say the Troop may be an exception or soaked his cammos in cleaning solvent all the time or something else is going on. Maybe a case is being built, I don?t know. From first hand experience I can attest that skin adsorbed hydrocarbon distillate poising isn?t a subtitle thing and ya know you?re in trouble from the get-go, no mistaking that for sure.

One thing I failed to mention in my last post is that all hazmat products made or imported into the US have to have the labeling and MSDS information as a matter of law. So as these chems go from bulk containers to smaller household shelf containers the safety information seems to go poof, I don?t know why.

Here is a point of interest for some: The most dangerous and deadly process I have ever been around converts a rail car of coal to 55 gallon drums of a vicious opaque glop. This glop has been defanged totally and is suitable for skin contact without any associated problems at all. This glop then goes on to various cosmetic companies and is the base material for lipstick and like products. Of course coloring, thickeners and perfumes are added as the original glop isn?t all that attractive and looks exactly like something else ???????but I?ll let it go at that, LOL.

All the same that process is working alive with the killer H2S and one must have their head up at all times and wear exposure badges. Oh, what we do to help our lovely Lasses look even lovelier, goodness. But it is worth it.

Scamp

[SuperScout]

My faith in your astute powers of observation are gleefully restored!

Now, I wasn't trying to trivialize the exposure one might face from all sorts of haz mat stuff, and can state with full authority of experience that some national retailers are buying into the process. I speak of Home Depot, fer instance, which is really big on educating employees on what haz mat is, how to control it, and how to dispose of it, should a spill occur. I suspect that other big box stores are doing the exact thing, knowing that greedy trial lawyers are lurking just around the corner (is the phrase "greedy trial lawyers" being somewhat redundant?) Your mentioning of that marvelous stuff derived from coal that those mostly of the feminie persuasion have coated theyselves with brings up a more salient point. Unsuspectingly, us human beans have been used as guinea pigs for all sorts of products, the result of which is our current epidemic of various forms of cancer, unnecessary anxiety and depression, and a variety of other ailments. As much as possible, me and my beloved are into the organic thing, a bit of wisdom passed to me by my sainted pappy; the older I get, the wiser he has become, and only wish he was still here so I could thank him again!

Certainly, overexposure, knowlingly and stupidly, to many substances will bring harm, diseases, and rapidly receding hairlines. Same-same on some of the recent pronouncements by that paragon of scientific excellence, the Center of Public Interest in Something or other, who had declared that eating apples was harmful. They even trotted out that Nobel-laureate in science, Meryl Streep, to wax eloquently before Congress, warning us of the dangers of consuming 58 pounds of alar, the apple coating chemical, in one sitting. Well golly gee, Batman, I thought I could eat the whole thang!

[Margaret Diann]

Hello all, and happy birthday to the 'first responder'

Thanks for reposting the concerns over 2-butoxyethanol and diethylene glycol monobutyl ether.

Wish companies really did disclose that ingredient

Look what Fuller O'Brien paints are doing now with their warnings (http://www.valdezlink.com/media-misc/FullerOBrien2003warnings.jpg)

Not what they were doing a few months before (http://www.valdezlink.com/many_things.htm ) A personal experience.

[David]

Originally posted by Seascamp
These days I would be dumbfounded to learn that US military people are not trained in haz mat proceedures and all labling, etc. on military basses isn't fully up to snuff with the law.
Scamp

CARC (http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/carc_paint/carc_paint_s03.htm#A.%20What%20is%20CARC)

Scamp here is a page describing some of the effects of just one of the many chemicals we were exposed to on a daily basis in the Gulf.

We came into extensive contact with the CARC spoke of in the above article even before we left. We waited for hours in lines at the paint booths to get our vehicles sprayed and then we drove them back half dry. I can still remember the smell of it as it was drying especially when it was on tanks and was being super heated by the tank engines. This was only the beginning of our troubles though with CARC paint. We soon realized, after a few inspections, our vehicles were not painted correctly and many areas of them were not painted at all due to the rush to get them ready for deployment. Many of our team leaders produced cans of CARC paint for us to finish the job with by hand. We then spent many more days touching up our equipment. Because it was illegal to have open cans of CARC on base we hid the cans in stashes around base just far enough out in the woodline to not be found by the casual observer. Again this was not the end of our exposure. After a few more inspections of our equipment we found that the CARC paint was having an insulating effect on some of our antennas. It was decided we had to scrap the antennas clean of the paint. We did this in the motor pool with utility knifes.

No one had any idea of the information posted on the above link nor did anyone higher up try to find out anything about what we were doing. I specifically remember a few troops asking if it was safe to scape the paint. I do not remember the answer if there was one but it does not matter as we simply followed orders regardless.

CARC report download (http://www.patriotfiles.com/xxx/carc.zip)

[Margaret Diann]

Thank you for this comment.

I've been wondering what was used to 'decontaminate' vehicles (http://www.valdezlink.com/chad4.htm)

And if anyone knows how to locate the Navy report done in 1994 on Jet Fuel 5? ... or the experiment the Navy was carrying out off Ocean Shores, WA in 1996? Why I want to know (http://www.valdezlink.com/looking_for_navy_reports_1994.htm)

The reason I believe that Gulf War vets, by the way, should consider 2-butoxyethanol as harming them (http://www.gulfwarvets.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000002.html ) is because it causes all the symptoms of 'Gulf War Syndrome' all by itself.

[BLUEHAWK]

Just thinking... (dangerous activity), that even if there were not one single human-made chemical on this good earth, there would be some chemicals in nature herself that would downright burn the skin off, eh?

Guess all we gotta do is not makes things TOO much worse, right?

[Margaret Diann]

Chad Pagel of Indian said OK to share an update to 'his health situation' (http://www.valdezlink.com/chad_shares.htm)

Let's pray for all affected and that the harm to people will be stopped. For that to happen, we may need to study many groups for the blood damage. (http://www.valdezlink.com/study_needed.htm#groups)