Draft Women

[BLUEHAWK]

Leaving aside the question of whether there should or should not be a Draft... should women be drafted?

I believe we're soon gonna need you, in battle.

Don't like having to say this.

Not totally sure my hunch is correct either.

:q: :af:

[revwardoc]

Yeah, I think women should be drafted but not to combat MOS's. In WWII women proved that they could do any and all non-combat jobs from clerical to mechanical including ferrying combat aircraft to overseas bases, though sometimes I feel that contemporary women care more about their nails and being Brittany Spears clones than anything else. But if its equality they want, lets give it to 'em.

[BLUEHAWK]

Dan -
I do not like the idea of them being into combat either... but there's a percent of 'em who CAN really fight and WANT to!

What do we do about those ones man! We need them!

I am confused.

We cannot just make them all go into combat or be subject to it can we?

Shoot, that would not work for the very reason you stated...

Dang...

[revwardoc]

The best example I can think of is the Israelis. They tried using women in direct combat roles and the "experiment" failed for several reasons; comparative lack of physical strength, emotionally unfit for combat, the "periodic" inability to fight and its accompanying irrationality, and more men were lost in an attempt to protect the women in their outfits. Granted, there are times in history when there were entire divisions of women warriors (the Zulus, the Roman-era women of Britain, another tribe of West African women in the 19th century [I forget who they were]), but these were the exception, not the rule. As for putting the small minority into direct combat, it may be a sexist point of view, but I personally don't think it would be worth the effort. And even in this "enlightented" day and age, a woman would have to be extremely exceptional in order to be accepted by men and lead them into combat.

[DMZ-LT]

If I was in a defensive position and knew my daughter was leading a platoon against my position I would be booging out of that location real fast. :a:

[BLUEHAWK]

Guys, that is exacraly what I have been thinking!

a) Guys will pay more attention at critical moments to the presence of a female anywhere in proximity, and put at risk the mission, so to speak.

b) I did not know that the Israeli experiment did not work out. It's always held up as THE example of women in combat, right?

c) Women are women. Even if they are lesbians, no?

d) How to allow for that "exceptional female"... dear God we need all the fighters we can muster.

[39mto39g]

I think W's can be very effective in combat,
If you stop looking at them as W's and start looking at them as inteligent fighters. After all, there are very large guys out there that we wouldn't want to confront head on, but we think of ourselfs as inteligent fighters. (through a gernade and run).

Training is most likely the key to W's in combat. M's have been doing it for so long that it's expected.

Lt-- it's nice thing to say, but reality check, She wouldn't have a chance against your defencive possition.
Again-- training is the key to the W's sucsess. and for the M's for that matter.

Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

Ayup (as Bones says) - Ayup Ron...

Thing is, thang is... we're close to having it worked out, close but no cigar, yet.

Cannot get my brain heart wrapped around the Co-ed thing, so was thinking maybe separate female and male units... every time I think of having to be next to a woman in a dire strait, the first thing I think of is the woman... VERY bad sign.

I'm s--t off the pot on this deal no doubt, but that's how it's seeming. No dang mixing, NO mixing at the training level.

[Keith_Hixson]

And,
Only draft the mean ones.


Keith :D

[melody1181]

I know alot of women my age I wouldn't trust my dog's life with...but that isn't everyone. You find this with men too. There are plenty of men who should NEVER hold a loaded gun let alone shoot it.

There will never be agrement on this between everyone. You will find idiots everywhere in both sexes.

[BLUEHAWK]

Keith -
Yeah, but HOW mean can they actually get! Gotta watch out for that problem :-)

[SuperScout]

Having been in a couple of Really, No-Kidding Live Fire Exercises and all the attendant frivolities that said activities entail, there is no place for women in combat roles. Some don't have the strength, some don't have the temperament, and the same could be said for some men. But the missing element in all the previous posts is the issue of sexual tensions that women bring to the table. (Now there's a kinky thought! Ooops, I digress)

A commander has to concern himself with operations, logistics, personnel, green air support, blue air support, redleg activity, supporting fires/activities of adjacent units, the bad guys, morale, and a few dozen other combat multipliers. Add in the issue of sexual tension, either from women or from homosexual men, and this is simply one more item that serves only as a detractor from accomplishing the mission. To think that it won't happen is to be so naive as to be placing one's unit in severe jeopardy, should excrement become propelled towards wind generating devices.

In today's difficult martial environment, it's becoming more and more difficult to keep women in the rear areas, as the fluidity of front lines, even if they exist, the constant metamorphing of the physical and metaphysical locale, due to the nature of counter-terrorist operations. For my money, the further back the better is where they belong. In GW I, we had an instant of some serious he-ing and she-ing going on, and the couple was captured by the Iraqis, way out in Indian territory.

But back to the original idea: if we reinstitute the draft, it best be fair, evenly administered, and impartial, not like during the last time. Draft 'em!!

[39mto39g]

Today is a different time, Women-for some dumb ass reason- want to have the opertunity to die in a combat situation. Normally I would say, go right ahead. But I guess Im getting old. 1st , make the opertunity available,
2nd , train them, then train them some more.
3rd, make sure they really know what they are getting into.
4th,


Let them die.


5th praise the hell out of the ones that make it.

Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

Thank you for stepping in Scout...

Don't want 'em to die Ron...

[39mto39g]

Combat is not a video game, There is no reset button. People die in combat, Thats what they are there to kill each other, Whitewashing it doesn't do them any good, If they go into combat, there is a real good chance of getting killed.
That was one of my points of the Gulf war, Those guys are getting a false sence of what combat is. Some Army's out there stand and fight and the good guys don't always win.
Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

I know Ron, that's what I always keep in mind when people start DEMANDING to be sent into combat... on the other hand, I believe the female Marines and Army do train these days with shoulder arms (maybe other stuff too for all I know), not sure what AF & Navy do about weapons training anymore... when I was in I don't recall SEEING a female on the bases except maybe at the hospital, or civilians at the BX.

I figure though, if a unit was isolated, had females in it and was attacked severely the women would know how to use the weapons and their help would come in handy... something like that... it's hard to talk about without seeming to insult ladies, which I don't mean to do.

[39mto39g]

Don't belive an all female combat unit would work, 1st thought, Its discrimination,
If you were in a hostal country and you get intel as to the enemys streangth, Don't you think the enemy might also get some intel, and when they find out they are up against a all female unit, Just what do you think the enemy might do in this case. (Make the American dawgs pay)

Probably go down along side of custer.
Yes there will be some sexual tention, so, deal with it.

I belive when the shit hits the fan, women would do ok, and thats all you can ask out of anyone.
I would demand one thing though, tell them the truth.
That way when there frends face is missing it wont be a suprise.

Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

Hadn't though of that thing you mentioned Ron... about the women being singled out for "special treatment" by an enemy... but crap man, if any enemy was so stupid as to do that they'd have a freakin' "student body left" maneuver on their butts in about five, or so it would seem, and there, too, is maybe another reason not to do the women units... guys could get distracted, come to the aid and be real cranky, is that what you're thinking too?

[39mto39g]

I don't think in combat anyone on the US side would ask or care if the unit was all women or not, When the shit hits the fan the arty is comeing and mortars and jets, theres not a lot of time to analise who is in what unit. The support units would do there job, The Airforce and Navy would do there job and the women unit would still get over-ran, if nothing else, just for the propaganda that action would bring.
All female units wouldn't work in combat, in no combat sure.

I guess Im reminded of a fire I was on not to long ago,
I was behind this guy on a large hose line for about 2 hours, The fire was so intence that the water we were standing in started to boil, after we got the fire under control, we were all high fiveing each other when I noticed the guy in front of me for 2 hours was one of our female firefighters. I had no Idea, and wouldn't have cared if I knew, what mattered is the person did her job and didn't panic, and WE kicked ass.

Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

Yup, probably so Ron, probably so...

What I let my mind think back to, right or not, is the Demi Moore character in "GI Jane", (what happened to her I mean) AFTER she performed well with Seals... the politics of women in combat, in other words, is far more worrisome (to me) than their actual presence or absence.... just thinking about it is all.

[the humper]

You're a couple miles in front of the lines on an all night ambush patrol. Engage the enemy. Grenades come at you by the bucket loads. The person next to you has one land on his butt and go off. The concussion, immediately makes him immobile. He's 6,3 and weighs 200+. He needs to be picked up and ran with the 2 miles back to the lines. Now I wouldn't care what your ethnicity, size, gender, etc., etc., that anyone was, as long as they could complete that task at hand. It's happened, time and time again, and when you have to make that decision, you don't have time to ruminate as to who can do that job. It has to be then OR there is no tomorrow. THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[Keith_Hixson]

If women can provide the physical strength do the job, I have no problem with women at the front. The majority of women don't have the endurance to do a long term recon mission miles from the front. If they can pass equal physical fitness tests I have no problem with women in combat. Women have been used as fighter pilots and done quite well.

When I was doing Mountain Rescue we had women who could climb as well as anyone else but they never could carry their fair share of the load when it came to packing folks out. "You got enough guys to pack em out?" was the question that was asked and it developed a small amount of resentment among the crew.

There are a few beefed up women who could do the job anywhere and more power to them.

Keith

[39mto39g]

Now your talking about something different in GI Jane. In the MOVIE, you seen her do 1 or two push ups and jog 20 or 30 feet in front of a camera. There is NO WAY a women could go through SEAL school, NO WAY, Id bet the farm on that one.
Through a Army or Marine infantry school is one thing but the Delta force, seals, Air Force special ops, NO WAY. GI Jane was a joke and a not very good one at that.

Ron

[BLUEHAWK]

I was kinda wondering about that exact point Ron... what little I know about Seals training (a nephew survived it :-) put together with GI JANE, didn't know if there was any relationship with the true experience or if it was a real story... but it kinda DOES come to the point of this thread if I say so myself, eh? Humper and some others have put the hair on the horse about it elsewhere too... but when I keep seeing something rising up in social conversation, it's one of those things... if you don't watch out all of a sudden it's "policy" and we all have to live with it...

[kmac7847]

I can't attest to a woman's role in combat. I'm neither pro or con. If they have the strenghth and courage to pass the training, go fur it. I will say the draft is an essential part of this country's military might. I believe there would be many to benifit if the draft was to be re-enstated. Maybe some of the young americans would learn basic responsibility and mature a bunch!!!

[BLUEHAWK]

kmac -

Well, if it would accomplish that last sentence of yours and be universal to ALL americans with no outs, then it'd probably be a good idea :D

[jchristin]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SuperScout there is no place for women in combat roles. Some don't have the strength, some don't have the temperament, and the same could be said for some men. But the missing element in all the previous posts is the issue of sexual tensions that women bring to the table.
[/QUOTE


Hey dude,

Don't be laying your overactive sexual tension onto women. We're not the cause of it. That's your own issue, take some saltpeter. And if we find ourselves - together in a firefight with the enemy - and if all you can think about is sex, darlin - you've got no business in my beloved Marine Corps. You're the one who doesn't belong in the battlefield. Don't be laying the blame for your sexual tension on the women. In this time of "don't ask, don't tell" you'd be equally concerned that that grunt behind you isn't looking at your sweet lookin behind! That may take care of that sexual tension.

I have known an equally distributed small number of men and women from the Marine Corps I wouldn't want to see in the battlefield. But they each would serve with honor in an administrative role or supportive role.

As for strength or "size," it's like that old saying: "it aint how big it is, it how you use it that counts."

Training is the key. In todays world, the backward thinking that once dominated the flimpsy "proper" role of women - both in the civilian world and the military world - has changed dratically. This will continue to progress.

Heck, the United States Marine Corps had their first woman fighter pilot fly and fight in Iraq. She served well and with honor - just like any of the men. Imagine that.

Equal Rights means Equal Rights to serve. Equally draft women, just like the men. As a woman, I believe firmly in equality all the way around.


semper fi
jchristin

[BLUEHAWK]

Best watch yerself Christin... go easier.

I'll try to do the same likewise.

We ain't your enemy.

[Dragon Lady]

I believe that yes there should be an equal draft for both men and women.
As one of the first wave of women aircraft mechanics in the AF I was required to pass the same physical test as the men. I lifted my own toolbox out to the plane. The men had a dolly for their toolbox but would sometimes give me a tough time if I used one. On one such day, I was tending to a C141 filled with Marines heading to Cherry Point. I was pulling my toolbox along the tarmac on the dolly and a group of these guys started taunting me. I stopped, smiled and said in a sweet southern drawl..."Why don't one o' you boys come on over and carry this here heavy tool box for a lady?" One of the guys got this big grin on his face and came over to "help". When he tried to lift the box he just about hurt his little self. This was a special "Crew Chief" box that weighed over a hundred pounds. He gave new meaning to the word Grunt.

You see it doesn't always take brawn to get the job done. Sometimes you just need to do a smarter job. By the way...back then I weighed less than the toolbox.

The only issue that I see is unfair is that you will have many women getting pregnant on purpose to avoid a draft. I've many civilian friends who have said that they would do this to avoid going to war. I have turned and told them that they are fools. Men don't have this option and that I find most unfair. Not to mention the poor child, what kind of life would they really have?

Besides, I don't like any kind of draft men or women. You never get the best of the crop nor do you get very good results. Oh they will serve to avoid jail, but will they do a very good job if their heart isn't in it? Some may change their minds after they've been in, but most dont want to be there so why should they put forth the effort.

Okay now I'm rambling...sorry.
DL

[Dragon Lady]

Oh and I almost forgot. As for long term recon...
Sorry Keith, beg to differ here.
It is a proven fact that women do a better job of watching and observing. Many animal researchers prefer to higher women to gather their field research because of the patience. (Jane Goodall comes to mind)

Now obviously, I've never been in that situation so I can't say exactly what is required for a recon mission. Not my forte.
This of course is just my opinion and observation on this issue.
DL

[Arrow]

Arrow>>>>>>

[BLUEHAWK]

Arrow -

Arrow -

Arrow -

Where is the heart hurting

Need thee cry

Or pour from out thine eyes

More than the heart can drink

[BLUEHAWK]

DL

Sometimes it does take brawn to get the job done.

In that case, we ask thee step aside...for thine own sake.

Your role is a far higher purpose under heaven.

[Dragon Lady]

Was I male bashing? :af:
I most certainly, honestly, with all sincerity did not mean to bash some males. :i:

Some of my best friends are males! :D
I like guys, they're funny. :v:

I just wanted to relay a personal experience that happened to me and post an opinion on whether I thought women should be drafted.

I personally don't think anyone should be drafted, male or female.
:zzz:

DL

[the humper]

Please tell me, EXPLICITLY, if you want to be in a position where you have to grab a hold of someone in a, split second, carry HIM, two (2) miles BACK to the lines, with no support, from NO where, regardless of what your gender , is, or what you might change it too, what in the hell, would you do!!!!!!!!!!! It's easy, over this configuration, "to think" what I would, but you please tell me what you would do, with 15 seconds of warning. On this site, WE can always relate WHAT WE THINK, we might do, but reality , facts, and posting on a site are, without exception, TWO different matters.
Thank You

[jchristin]

If I was preceived as "coming" on a wee bit strong, well - perhaps I was. In the future I will pay closer attention how I write messages. I will place effort not to offend, even when I am offended. It will be a balancing act, but please be patient with me. Like men, I sometimes develop strong opinions on what is right and what is wrong.

My two sons are offering me advice, from the male prepective. They told me that women are suppose to be more demure in how they voice their opinions. That women are can voice an opinion, but to do so in more apologetic lanuage, never straighforward. I just grounded both of them, very apologetically of course.

But I will place a sincere effort to be less abrupt. Just don't tell Bones! :)

semper fi,
jchristin

[BLUEHAWK]

JC

Well, you got word from brother Humper... (You earned the one stripe posted, and I got busted down to Slick for "insubordination", so you outrank me.)

Let me take a step back, and say Welcome Home, in the most sincere manner. Any friend of Sargeant Bones is a friend of mine, now and always.

Ya did come on a wee bit strong, as I myself have done (and might yet do again one day :D) No fault, no blame... as the I CHING reportedly says: "Perseverance Furthers."

I do believe, not wishing to go against the advice of your sons, that the several women I have known in my long life have a tendency to SELECT when they WISH to be demure and when not.

Ya might inform those sons of such a tendency among women next time they offer their advice :a:

[Arrow]

Dragon Lady,

No, No and a thousands time no. See my pm.

Arrow>>>>>

[the humper]

I think you offended, NO ONE, but you didn't address the issue.!!!!!! What would you do, NOW, without the matter of verbal discourse DO, in the situation described ABOVE!!!!!
No more. No less!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[BLUEHAWK]

It is the one way or the other

We know where we fit

or not

Much is at stake

[jchristin]

Originally posted by the humper Please tell me, EXPLICITLY, if you want to be in a position where you have to grab a hold of someone in a, split second, carry HIM, two (2) miles BACK to the lines, with no support, from NO where, regardless of what your gender , is, or what you might change it too, what in the hell, would you do!!!!!!!!!!! Thank You


What would I do? I would demurely do whatever task was required to accomplish the objective. As a Marine Veteran, Forest Fire Fighter, and former Law Enforcement Officer, in my weaken feable female fashion, I would employ all my previous trainning, which by that time, if I may beg your pardon to be so bold to say, would hopefully had become second nature in my thought processes, in order to achieve the task, however difficult or straining to my female condition to meet the objective.

Oh my, I have been shot at in the line of duty, and didn't require the smelling salts and didn't even break a finger nail! But by the very nature of my lesser female nature, I should of been happy to simply run back to the kitchen and stay put! But, I offer my apologies for not having done so. Working "Gang" Violence is of course no place for a woman! Something must of just have got the better of me.

If I may be so bold to share, why, once as a forest fire fighter, at the Canyon Creek Fire in the Bob Marshall Wilderness of Montana - back in 1988, get this - I did carry my partner Ethan, nearly one mile to our vehicle when he sprang his ankle while I was teaching him to fell a tree! I know I shouldn't of, that I should of ran for help, to a man with big brawdy strength, but something once again just got the better of me. After all, we were surrounded by big tall burning trees with sraves tied around our faces to breath. I mean he was a big brut, standing 6'3" to my 5'10'! But then again, it was less than a mile. Could I have lasted a whole 2 miles? Oh my. Who would I of ever of thought I was anyway! I mean, there were big mean cougars, tigers and bears out there! Funny thing is, I meet the task and achieved the objective.

My training at Parris Island gifted me with the innate abilities and level of self-confidence to accomplish that which may of otherwise seemed impossible to otherwise achieve. A form of disipline was instilled deep within my character to know this: That I can go anywhere at anytime under any condition to meet any challenge. Now if you where that man who needed to be carried those "2" miles, and I was the only person around to do the job, WOULD YOUR REFUSE MY HELP? This is of course, just my thoughts on the subject, and of course, I hope not seen as straightforward question.

semper fi,
jchristin

[the humper]

The folks who have to fight it, and as of yet. NO ONE on this site has been in that position!!!!!!!!!!
Kindly, please don't reflect what you would, DO. but reflect, what you think, SHOULD be done, cause you LIKE ME, ain"t going no where!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[jchristin]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK JC

Let me take a step back, and say Welcome Home, in the most sincere manner. Any friend of Sargeant Bones is a friend of mine, now and always.

several women I have known in my long life have a tendency to SELECT when they WISH to be demure and when not.

Ya might inform those sons of such a tendency among women next time they offer their advice :a:


Thanks BlueHawk for the kind words. I really appreciate what you wrote, especially about women having the tendency to select when they wish to be demure and when not to be.

I know it is difficult for men to understand the various forms of discrimination women encounter - afterall, they're not women, how could they know. But times have changed a great deal since I was a kid growing up in the late 60's and early 70's. Ask Bones, I can usually hold my own pretty well - most the time.

Now don't go thinking I'm some feminist out to cut the ---- off of all men. That is not true. Heck, I've got two sons and one day I wanta be a grandmother! Just not right now! Why, I don't even try to change the stinkin thinkin of some men. Some of them are just constitutionally incapable of change. That's okay. I'll love them anyway. I just don't always understand men. Funny creatures some of you are! That's just one of the spices of life!

[the humper]

But it takes "common training" to do what has been reflected. And when the cow has to eat the cabbage, there is ABSOLUTELY, no time for PC or anythings else, you've got to get your butt out of Dodge, and anyone else, or you have one alternative, YOUR DEAD.. And thank my lucky stars. I REPRESENT ALL, the others who were not Lucky as I was. And if you care to respond, please respond to the folks who were carried off in a poncho, or covered off with same, otherwise, I. stand, mute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SF
NC

[Arrow]

JC..

Thank your for your service to this country and to your community. And welcome to the forum and the site.

Arrow>>>>>

[Arrow]

Humper...

I live in the same world you do. There is no wayeven in my youth I could have done whatJC has done.Iam not emotionally or physicallycut out forthe discipline it takes.But the times they are a changin' brother and we might just be surprised what some ofthese young ladies can do.

Arrow>>>>>>

[Dragon Lady]

JC,
What Sparrow said and then some!

I would rather have you at my side than some men I've met. Some women too for that matter.

You've shown me that what matters most is getting the job done. And not worrying about gender.

Bones should be proud to call you friend! In a demure sort of way.

DL

[the humper]

Can you or another "change it" when it comes down to the nut'cuttin. You tell me, I will await an intelligent answer, as to what in the hell, anyone would would do if they had to hump a 200+ individual person, regardless of gender, for 2 miles, without stopping. to, SAVE THEIR LIFE. What anyone does, and not relating on this site, which. I realize is the ONLY way to express OURSELVES!!!!!!!!, Please enlighten, me!!!!!!!!!!!
TY
SF
NC

[Dragon Lady]

Hump,
I would do what ever I could to get my companion to safety. There have been some amazing stories of small women lifting cars off their husbands when they fall of the jack. You would be very surprised at what the human body is capable of when adrenilin kicks in.
At less than 100 pound I once picked up, off the floor, my 170 pound ex-husband by his upper arms and walked him 10 feet to remove him from my space when he was being verbally abusive to me. And that was just because I was pissed off!
Don't ever mistake size or gender for frailty or weakness. They dont compare.

I would suggest a relaxing soak in the tub and a cup of camomile tea to help ease your tensions.

And this is all I am going to say on this matter.
DL

[Arrow]

Humper-I live in the same world you do. There is no wayeven in my youth I could have done whatJC has done.Iam not emotionally or physicallycut out forthe discipline it takes. -Arrow-

Hump...

Don't make me laugh now. I'm sixty years old. What do you think? :nn:

Arrow>>>>>>

[jchristin]

Hump:

There is no "correct" answer to your question, if it were delivered by me, including the textbook classic.

But here's a clue:

I've seen men buckle under far lesser stress, the same goes for women. We never know what one may do under any circumstance until one is there - in reality. Training prepares a Marine to meet any condition under any circumstance at any time. Training prepares one to "slip" into a thinking mindset in order to achieve a task to meet the objective in the least amount of time when the occassion arises. We never know with 100% certainly what one may do until the moment arrives - that includes you.

I wish you well with your search for the answer you seek. However, if I suspect correctly, whatever I would say would be wrong no matter how correct the answer may actually be.

semper fi

[the humper]

As to what a body can do!!!!!!!!!! I'm not laughing one bit after 12 months and 6 days across the pond, at 30 below.. As to taking care of someone, I do not care what your ethinticity, your religion, age, iq, or hat band size is, but if you are not prepared to do the job required, AT THE TIME, all other is irrelevant. Whatever the above you might qualify for, or not. If YOU. whomever you are, can't get my butt out of a jam. what else are you good for?????? This is not a facetious question, but reality!!!!!!!! Get on the front line for a month and a half or two at 30 below and then tell me what your thoughts might be!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't freeze your butt off first. Bet You'd have a varied different view if that ever occurred. But we really don't have to concern ourselves about that do we, so we can VERBALIZE, what we think, SHOULD BE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SF
NC

[Arrow]

[the humper]

Dp Not do, and if it's Adios to you, Good bye U!!!!!!!!!!!
NC

[Arrow]

[Arrow]

[Arrow]

[revwardoc]

Dragon Lady,

You had a dollie, too, eh? Those things came in damn handy when you had to get out to a plane parked a mile away and you had to haul that heavy tool box and the personnel van was elsewhere. We had to build our dollies ourself so I put the type of wheels on mine that you'd find on a little red wagon. It rolled a helluva lot easier than the small steel wheels most of the guys used. Were you allowed to have bicycles? We did...for a while, anyway. I found one in a dumpster and cleaned it up, patched the tires and painted it Air Force Blue. I even rigged up a telescoping extension so I could pull the tool box dollie behind it. That bike came in real handy for getting parts and tools from the "shed" in a hurry and I didn't want to wait for the van. Personally, I thought it made us more efficient and was great for morale. Unfortunately, the powers-that-be decided it made us too independent so they told us to get rid of them. Figures.

[Robert J Ryan]

This is a hard subject for me to dicuss, as I have had my sierra jumped into by women on other bbs' and I have called a dinosaur discussing this topic. I'm sorry but I don't think women need to be drafted. There are women on active duty, if a women wants to go into the service then enlistment is best. I don't want to see women placed in infantry units at the company level. I know there are women at division, brigade, and battalion level in infantry units. I guess I am old fashioned and don't want woman to be exposed to battle and more than they have to. I know women soldiers get PTSD, but maybe the chances of exposure are limited if you keep them out of rifel companies.