Naval Classifications

[BLUEHAWK]

- What is the difference between a boat, a ship and a vessel?

- In what manner is the "messenger line" conveyed from aboard ship to the dock when comparing PT boat to Aircraft Carrier?

- What are the exact classifications which distinguish one type of vessel (e.g. cruiser) from another type (e.g. Battleship)... leave off with subs, even a Zoomie knows what those are :-)?

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK - What is the difference between a boat, a ship and a vessel?
- In what manner is the "messenger line" conveyed from aboard ship to the dock when comparing PT boat to Aircraft Carrier?
- What are the exact classifications which distinguish one type of vessel (e.g. cruiser) from another type (e.g. Battleship)... leave off with subs, even a Zoomie knows what those are :-)?

My Boat, the Boat, our Boat is a term of endearment. Used in the following manner: I'm going back to My Boat, The Boat is go to be haze gray soon, Our Boat the Indy is the best damned carrier in the Fleet!
A ship is what the other guys sail, "There's a Russian Ship!"
A vessel is what I pop when I try to explain this to sand crabs or other land locked critters.

A PT boat may be small and close enough to a pier to toss a messenger to the pier. Carriers don't get that close to the pier and thus the messenger is fired to the pier from a shotgun.

Ship Classifications:

CURRENT US NAVY SHIP CLASSIFICATIONS
Designations currently in use or officially in effect are listed here, all others are no longer in use. The letter "N" when used as the last letter of a ship classification symbol denotes nuclear propulsion.
If you do not find the classification symbol you are looking for here it may be in the US Navy Inactive Classification Symbol file.

COMBATANT SHIP CATEGORY

Warship classification

Aircraft Carrier Type

All ships designed primarily for the purpose of conducting combat operations by aircraft which engage in attacks against airborne, surface, sub-surface and shore targets.

Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) Aircraft Carriers

Multi-purpose Aircraft Carrier CV
Multi-purpose Aircraft Carrier CVN
(Nuclear-Propulsion)

Surface Combatant Type

Large, heavily armed, surface ships which are designed primarily to
engage enemy forces on the high seas.

Battleships

Battleship BB

Cruisers

Gun Cruiser CA
Guided Missile Cruiser CG
Guided Missile Cruiser CGN
(Nuclear-Propulsion)

Destroyers

Destroyers DD
Guided Missile Destroyer DDG

Frigates

Frigate FF
Guided Missile Frigate FFG
Radar Picket Frigate FFR
Frigate (Reserve Training) FFT

Submarine Type

All self-propelled submersible types regardless of whether
employed as combatant, auxiliary, or research and development
vehicles which have at least a residual combat capability.

Attack Submarines

Submarine SS
Submarine SSN
(Nuclear-Powered)

Ballistic Missile Submarines

Ballistic Missile Submarine SSBN
(Nuclear-Powered)

Other Combatant Classification

Patrol Combatant Type

Combatants whose mission may extend beyond coastal duties and
whose characteristics include adequate endurance and sea
keeping providing a capability for operations exceeding 48 hours
on the high seas without support.

Patrol Ships

Patrol Combatant PG

Amphibious Warfare Type Ships

All ships having organic capability for amphibious assault and
which have characteristics enabling long duration operations on the
high seas.

Amphibious Helicopter/Landing Craft Carriers

Amphibious Assault Ship (General Purpose) LHA
Amphibious Assault Ship (Multi-Purpose) LHD
Amphibious Transport Dock LPD
Amphibious Assault Ship (Helicopter) LPH

Landing Craft Carriers

Amphibious Cargo Ship LKA
Dock Landing Ship LSD
Medium Landing Ship LSM
Tank Landing Ship LST

Miscellaneous

Amphibious Command Ship LCC

Combat Logistics Type Ships

Ships which have the capability to provide underway replenishment
to fleet units.

Underway Replenishment

Ammunition Ship AE
Combat Store Ship AFS
Oiler AO
Fast Combat Support Ship AOE
Replenishment Oiler AOR

Mine Warfare Type Ships

All ships whose primary function is mine warfare on the high seas.

Minesweepers

Minesweeper - Ocean MSO

Mine Countermeasures Ships

Mine Countermeasures Ship MCM
Mine Countermeasures Support Ship MCS
Minehunter, Coastal MHC

Coastal Defense Ships

All ships whose primary function is coastal patrol and interdiction.

Special Warfare

Patrol, Coastal PC

Auxiliary classification

Mobile Logistics Type Ships

Ships which have the capability to provide direct material support to
other deployed units operating far from home base.

Material Support

Destroyer Tender AD
Repair Ship AR
Submarine Tender AS

Support Type Ships

A grouping of ships designed to operate in the open ocean in a
variety of sea states to provide general support to either combatant
forces or shore based establishments. (Includes smaller auxiliaries
which by the nature of their duties, leave inshore waters).

Fleet Support

Salvage Ship ARS
Submarine Rescue Ship ASR
Auxiliary Ocean Tug ATA
Fleet Ocean Tug ATF
Salvage and Rescue Ship ATS

Other Auxiliaries

Auxiliary Crane Ship ACS
Auxiliary General AG
Deep Submergence Support Ship AGDS
Environmental Research Ship AGER
Miscellaneous Command Ship AGF
Missile Range Instrumentation Ship AGM
Oceanographic Research Ship AGOR
Ocean Surveillance Ship AGOS
Surveying Ship AGS
Auxiliary Research Submarine AGSS
Hospital Ship AH
Cargo Ship AK
Vehicle Cargo Ship AKR
Gasoline Tanker AOG
Transport Oiler AOT
Transport AP
High Speed Transport APD
Cable Repair Ship ARC
Aviation Logistics Support Ship AVB
Auxiliary Aircraft Landing Training Ship AVT

US NAVY SERVICE CRAFT CLASSIFICATIONS
Designations currently in use or officially in effect are listed here, all others are no longer in use. The letter "N" when used as the last letter of a service craft classification symbol indicates a non-self-propelled (n-s-p) version of a similar self-propelled (s-p) service craft.
If you do not find the classification symbol you are looking for here it may be in the US Navy Inactive Classification Symbol file.

SUPPORT CRAFT CATEGORY

Support Craft Classification

Service Type Craft

A grouping of navy-subordinated craft (including non-self-propelled)
designed to provide general support to either combatant forces or
shore-based establishments.

Dry Docks (Non-self-propelled)

Large Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock AFDB
Small Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock AFDL
Medium Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock AFDM
Auxiliary Repair Dry Dock ARD
Medium Auxiliary Repair Dry Dock ARDM
Yard Floating Dry Dock YFD

Tugs (Self-propelled)

Large Harbor Tug YTB
Small Harbor Tug YTL
Medium Harbor Tug YTM

Tankers (Self-propelled)

Fuel Oil Barge YO
Gasoline Barge YOG
Water Barge YW

Lighters and Barges

Self-propelled

Covered Lighter YF
Refrigerated Cover Lighter YFR
Harbor Utility Craft YFU
Garbage Lighter YG

Non-self-propelled

Open Lighter YC
Car Float YCF
Aircraft Transportation Lighter YCV
Covered Lighter YFN
Large Covered Lighter YFNB
Lighter (Special purpose) YFNX
Refrigerated Covered Lighter YFRN
Range Tender YFRT
Garbage Lighter YGN
Gasoline Barge YOGN
Fuel Oil Barge YON
Oil Storage Barge YOS
Sludge Removal Barge YSR
Water Barge YWN

Other Craft

Self-propelled

Deep Submergence Rescue Vehicle DSRV
Deep Submergence Vehicle DSV
Submersible Research Vehicle NR
Ferry Boat or Launch YFB
Dredge YM
Patrol Craft, Training YP
Seaplane Wrecking Derrick YSD
Torpedo Trials Craft YTT

Non-self-propelled

Barracks Craft APL
Floating Crane YD
Diving Tender YDT
Dry Dock Companion Craft YFND
Floating Power Barge YFP
Salvage Lift Craft YLC
Dredge YMN
Gate Craft YNG
Floating Pile Driver YPD
Floating Workshop YR
Repair and Berthing Barge YRB
Repair, Berthing and Messing Barge YRBM
Floating Dry Dock Workshop (Hull) YRDH
Floating Dry Dock Workshop (Machine) YRDM
Radiological Repair Barge YRR
Salvage Craft Tender YRST


Unclassified Miscellaneous

Unclassified Miscellaneous Unit IX
Submersible Craft X

USS Constitution

Note: The USS Constitution formerly IX 21 was reclassified
to none, effective September 1, 1975 as per
SECNAVNOTE 5030 dated September 2, 1975.

US NAVY INACTIVE CLASSIFICATION SYMBOLS


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Description Symbol

Crane ship AB
Advanced Base Dock ABD
Advanced Base Section Dock ABSD
Collier AC
Auxiliary Mine Layer ACM
Auxiliary Aircraft Carrier ACV
Degaussing Ship ADG
Store Ship AF
Auxiliary Floating Dock AFD
Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock Little (Concrete) AFDL (C)
Icebreaker AGB
Amphibious Force Flagship AGC
Seagoing Dredge AGD
Escort Research Ship AGDE
Hydrofoil Research Ship AGEH
Auxiliary General Frigate AGFF
Patrol Combatant Support Ship AGHS
Lighthouse Tender AGL
Major Communications Relay Ship AGMR
Patrol Craft Tender AGP
Radar Picket Ship AGR
Coastal Surveying Ship AGSC
Satellite Launching Ship AGSL
Technical Research Ship AGTR
Evacuation Hospital Ship AHP
Attack Cargo Ship AKA
Cargo Dock Ship AKD
General Store Ship Issue AKI
Light Cargo Ship AKL
Net Cargo Ship AKN
Stores Issue Ship AKS
Cargo Submarine AKSS
Cargo Ship and Aircraft Ferry AKV
Lightship AL
Auxiliary Lighter Ship ALS
Minesweeper AM
Minesweeper, Harbor AMb
Coastal Minesweeper AMc
Mine Hunter AMCU
Motor Minesweeper AMS
Net Laying Ship AN
Net Laying Ship ANL
Submarine Oiler AOSS
Attack Transport APA
Self-propelled Barracks Ship APB
Small Coastal Transport APC
High Speed Transport APD
Administrative Flagship APF
Support Gunnery Ship APG
Transport Fitted for Evacuation of Wounded APH
Mechanized - Artillery Transport APM
Non - Mechanized - Artillery Transport APN
Troop Barge Class A APP
Rescue Transport APR
Transport Submarine APS
Transport Submarine APSS
Transport and Aircraft Ferry APV
Base Repair Ship ARb
Battle Damage Repair Ship ARB
Internal Combustion Engine Repair Ship ARG
Heavy - Hull Repair Ship ARH
Repair Ship, Small ARL
Heavy - Machinery Repair Ship ARM
Salvage Lifting Ship ARSD
Salvage Craft Tender ARST
Aircraft Repair Ship ARV
Aircraft Repair Ship, Aircraft ARVA
Aircraft Repair Ship, Engine ARVE
Aircraft Repair Ship, Helicopter ARVH
Cargo Submarine ASSA
Transport Submarine ASSP
Ocean Going Tug AT
Tank Landing Craft ATL
Auxiliary - Ocean Tug, Old ATO
Rescue Ocean Tug ATR
Auxiliary Training Submarine ATSS
Seaplane Tender AV
Large Catapult Lighter AVC
Seaplane Tender Destroyer AVD
Aircraft Escort Vessel AVG
Guided Missile Ship AVM
Small Seaplane Tender AVP
Aircraft Rescue Vessel AVR
Aviation Supply Ship AVS
Distilling Ship AW
Aircraft Rescue Vessel Water Tanker AWK
Airship Tender (Lighter than Air) AZ
Guided Missile Capitol Ship BBG
Monitor BM
Guided Missile Heavy Cruiser CAG
Large Cruiser CB
Large Tactical Command Ship CBC
Command Ship CC
Flying Deck Cruiser CF
Light Cruiser CL
Anti - Aircraft Light Cruiser CLAA
Tactical Command Ship CLC
Guided Missile Light Cruiser CLG
Cruiser - Hunter Killer CLK
Mine Layer CM
Coastal Mine Layer CMC
Coastal Patrol Boat CPC
Coastal Patrol and Interdiction Craft CPIC
Attack Aircraft Carrier CVA
Attack Aircraft Carrier (Nuclear propulsion) CVAN
Aircraft Carrier - Large CVB
Escort Aircraft Carrier CVE
Assault Helicopter Aircraft Carrier CVHA
Escort Helicopter Aircraft Carrier CVHE
Small Aircraft Carrier CVL
ASW Support Aircraft Carrier CVS
Training Aircraft Carrier CVT
Utility Aircraft Carrier CVU
Corvette DDC
Anti - Submarine Destroyer DDE
Hunter Killer Destroyer DDK
Radar Picket Destroyer DDR
Escort Ship DE
Control Escort Ship DEC
Guided Missile Escort Ship DEG
Radar Picket Escort Ship DER
Aegis Missile Destroyer DG
Frigate DL
Guided Missile Frigate DLG
Guided Missile Frigate (Nuclear propulsion) DLGN
Minelayer, Destroyer DM
Minesweeper, Destroyer DMS
Surface Effect Destroyer DS
Open Lighter, Experimental EYC
Covered Lighters, Experimental EYFN
Fast Deployment Logistics Ship FDL
Unclassified Miscellaneous Submarine IXSS
Landing Craft Infantry (Flotilla Flagship) LCFF
Landing Craft Infantry (Gunboat) LCIG
Landing Craft Infantry (Large) LCIL
Landing Craft Infantry (Mortar) LCIM
Landing Craft Infantry (Rocket) LCIR
Landing Craft, Infantry (Small) LCIS
Landing Craft Vehicle LCV
Inshore Fire Support Ship LFR
Amphibious Fire Support Ship LFS
Amphibious Transport LPA
Amphibious Transport, Small LPR
Amphibious Transport Submarine LPSS
Flotilla Flagship Landing Ship LSFF
Landing Ship, Infantry Gunboat LSIG
Infantry Landing Ship (Large) LSIL
Landing Ship, Infantry (Mortar) LSIM
Landing Ship, Infantry (Rocket) LSIR
Medium Landing Ship (Rocket) LSMR
Support Landing Ship (Large) Mark III LSSL
Landing Ship, Tank (Casualty Evacuation) LSTH
Landing Ship, Utility LSTS
Vehicle Landing Ship LSV
Small Mine Countermeasures Ship MCSL
Minelayer, Fleet MM
Minelayer, Auxiliary MMA
Minelayer, Coastal MMC
Minelayer, Fast MMD
Minelayer, Fleet MMF
Minesweeper Coastal, Non - magnetic MSC
Minesweeper Coastal, Old MSCO
Minesweeper, Fleet Steel Hull MSF
Mine Hunter MSH
Minesweeping, Special (Device) MSS
Control Submarine Chaser (173 ft) PCC
Patrol Escort PCE
Control Escort (180 ft) PCEC
Patrol Rescue Escort PCER
Patrol Craft, Submarine PCS
Control Submarine Chaser (136 ft) PCSC
Eagle PE
Patrol Escort PF
Motor Gunboat PGM
Patrol Combatant Missile (Hydrofoil) PHM
River Gunboat PR
Motor Torpedo Boat PT
Motor Boat - Subchaser PTC
Control Submarine Chaser (110 ft) SCC
Fleet Submarine SF
Mine Laying Submarine SM
Submarine Cargo SSA
Auxiliary Submarine SSAG
Fleet Ballistic Missile Submarine SSB
Guided Missile Submarine SSG
Anti - Submarine, Submarine SSK
Submarine Oiler SSO
Submarine Transport SSP
Radar Picket Submarine SSR
Radar Picket Submarine (Nuclear propulsion) SSRN
Target and Training Submarine SST
Tank Lighter TLL
Sweeper Device XMAP
Ash Lighter YA
Miscellaneous Auxiliary Service Craft YAG
Ocean Radar Station Ship YAGR
Bow Dock YBD
Fueling Barge YCD
Open Cargo Lighter YCK
Degaussing Vessels YDG
Ammunition Lighter YE
Covered Lighter (Special Purpose) YFNG
Torpedo Transportation Lighter YFT
Ambulance Boat YH
House Boat YHB
Salvage Lift Craft, Heavy YHLC
Scow - Heating YHT
Open Landing Lighter YLA
Salvage Lift Craft, Light YLLC
Mud Scow YMD
Salvage Lift Craft, Medium YMLC
Motor Mine Planter YMP
Auxiliary Motor Mine Sweeper YMS
Motor Tug YMT
Net Tender (Boom) YN
Net Tender (Tug Class) YNT
Pontoon Stowage Barge YPK
Repair, Berthing and Messing Barge (Large) YRBML
Submarine Rescue Chamber YRC
Covered Lighter (Repair) YRL
Stevedoring Barge YS
Salvage Pontoon YSP
Harbor Tug YT
Catapult Lighter YVC
Water Distilling Barge YWDN

[BLUEHAWK]

Whoa... beautiful man, beautiful answer... now I gotta digest it all :-)

Just what I was hoping for, and will now be able to refer back to.

Thank you.

[SparrowHawk62]

Stop it, you're gonna make me blush!

[Bill Farnie]

Thank you SparrowHawk62,

Being a land locked critter I always wondered what the letters meant and now I know.
Good post!!!

[BLUEHAWK]

Hey SparrowHawk!

Ya got a patch? Maybe post it under your handle as an avatar, if you go to the gallery button at the top o' this and every page... We have a MASTER webmaster in David, he knows how to do stuff if you need help.

Ya see, for the Zoomies, Scamp and Boats speak of Crusiers and Frigates and what not... we have ZERO idea what they are meaning, but feel obliged to understand. It's sorta like old AF nomenclatures, e.g. X = experimental, F = fighter, C = Cargo, T = Trainer, U = Utility, R = Recon and so on.

I don't know what all is going on today... it's a real help what you said.

Even a Currahee agrees!

p.s. DANG, you Navals have a LOT of classifications!

[Tamaroa]

OK, I gotta add just a little more. In the Coast Guard. Under 65 feet and you are a boat. 65 feet and over you are a cuttter. The name is a hold over from our predecessor service the Revenue Cutter Service.

WATF Coast Guard Ocean Going Tug - - Haul anything
any where.
WMEC Coast Guard Medium Endurance Cutter - - SAR/LE
patrols, usually two weeks at a clip
WHEC Coast Guard High Endurance Cutter - - deploys
with Navy, 30 days to 6 months or more.

WAGB Coast Guard Ice Breaker - - gone usually 4 to 6
months.
WPB Coast Guard Patrol Boat - - Coastal search and
rescue 87 feet
WIX Misc. Like the Barque Eagle.
WLB Bouy Tender -- Aids to Navigation, two classes,
175 feet and 225 feet
MLB 47 foot, 52 foot surf boats stationed at Lifeboat
stations along the coast to aid mariners in distress.

Bill

[BLUEHAWK]

Bill, what an amazing complexity the Naval classifications are, are they not?

But, according to SparrowHawk there appears to be some kind of an emotional nomenclature associated with boat, vessel, ship?

To close in on the point of the matter, would it be true to say that the Navy/Coast Guard just ups and names classifications on the whim of the moment, regardless of depth and width and length. Damn hard to figure them folks out Bill, e.g. Scamp talked about CHICAGO going from one thing to another classified-wise... how could that be?

What I mean is this, what, specifically, makes a floating thing (I dare not say boat, or ship or vessel) become from one thing to another... Zoomies know the difference between a Sub and a Carrier.

[the humper]

NAVSOURCE.ORG has a wealth of information on past and present ships!!!
SF
NC

[SparrowHawk62]

To close in on the point of the matter, would it be true to say that the Navy/Coast Guard just ups and names classifications on the whim of the moment, regardless of depth and width and length. Damn hard to figure them folks out Bill, e.g. Scamp talked about CHICAGO going from one thing to another classified-wise... how could that be?

What I mean is this, what, specifically, makes a floating thing (I dare not say boat, or ship or vessel) become from one thing to another... Zoomies know the difference between a Sub and a Carrier.

OK, Let an ABH who was TAD to the MAA while on a CV that was formally a CVA try to es-plain some more.

There is no whim of the moment when dealing with the classification of a ship. A ship is given its nomenclature by the nature of it's assigned task. A carrier is a CV because C= Carrier
V= fixed wing aircraft. The CVA was done away with by President Nixon. The USS Independence dropped her "A" on 28 Feb 73.
Enterprise was CVAN-65 she's now CVN-65. Nixon felt we no longer needed the word ATTACK associated with the carriers in the fleet at the time.
Conversion of some ships call for the mission to be changed thus the are Re-commisioned to meet this new mission. DD's changed to DDG's as weapon systems changed. The first Carrier the Langley was a converted coal tender. It all has to do with the mission of the ship.
Now in regard's to our shallow water guys. They have their own naming system, for very good reasons. Different types of ships with missions that are different from those of us that go deep.
So, now since you know about subs, what's the story with an SSBN vice a SSN?

[Tamaroa]

you used to have a concrete system for naming ships. Subs (SS)were named after fish or marine life. Cruisers (CL, CA) were cities, Destroyers (DD or DE) were usually a famous sailor or officer, Battleships (BB) were states and so on.

In the Coast Guard you had 378 foot secretary class cutters named after Secretaries of the Treasury. You had Ocean going tugs named after Indian tribes, 255 foot cutters were known as the Lake Class as they were name after bodies of water. The Coast Guard now has a 270 foot cutter known as the "Famous" class named after previously famous Coast Guard Cutters such as the Spencer, Campbell or Bear.

Now things are all messed up. Subs can be people or cities witness USS Jefferson City or USS George Washington, both subs but different classes. Some Frigates were named after people (Spruance) Some Frigates are now named after Cities. Soon there will be a sub launched, The Virginia, named after a state.

It used to be you could tell what a ship was just by hearing its name. Not so anymore.

Bill

[SparrowHawk62]

Rockland County?? My old stomping grounds, I use to watch the train pass through Congers as a kid! Folks use to have a home in Congers that was an old boarding home for the Rail Road workers.
I worked in New City for quite some time.

[SparrowHawk62]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Hey SparrowHawk!
Ya got a patch? Maybe post it under your handle as an avatar, if you go to the gallery button at the top o' this and every page... We have a MASTER webmaster in David, he knows how to do stuff if you need help.
QUOTE]

If I can shrink the patch small enough, I'll use it, so far no joy! I did post an old Indy patch in the Gallery. I'll give it a few more tries before I call on the web master.

Not all helo's fly, here's one that went for a swim! It was successfully pulled out of the drink and was up and flying a few weeks later!

[Tamaroa]

Sparrow if you are familiar with the geography, my home is not far from the intersection of Rte 9W and Railroad Avenue. I'm about half way between West Point and Congers. :-)

Bill

[BLUEHAWK]

The ABH who was TAD to the MAA while on CVA... holy smokes.

We Zoomies do not think kindly towards rotary propellers... does not sit well, though we know it sometimes works very well. Fundamentally, we think they DO not fly... they sorta swim in the air... don't like 'em :-)

Too much like trying to spin a motor, or fire an M-1 under water.

:-)

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by Tamaroa Sparrow if you are familiar with the geography, my home is not far from the intersection of Rte 9W and Railroad Avenue. I'm about half way between West Point and Congers. :-) Bill


Let's see if I went to the corner I could buy a Dodge, travel towards Congers to buy a Hot Dog at Rock'in Ron's Truck, go the other way to buy a cone a Hoyer's! I think I have a clue where you hail from. Didn't your AL in that town burn down awhile back, there's a crazy Jar Head who hangs out there uses the name DOC.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK The ABH who was TAD to the MAA while on CVA... holy smokes.
We Zoomies do not think kindly towards rotary propellers... does not sit well, though we know it sometimes works very well. Fundamentally, we think they DO not fly... they sorta swim in the air... don't like 'em :-)
Too much like trying to spin a motor, or fire an M-1 under water.
:-)

First mess of Navy terms is easy, I was an Aviation bosun Mate Handler second class (E5) who was temporally Assigned Duties to the Master At Arms (Navy MP's) while on a former Attack Carrier which was reclassed as a Carrier. But I didn't re-up for a third time due to my MCOC CC telling me he was going send my ass to NORVA to catch the first flattop doing a Megelan. I knew I'd be topside dragging knuckles again, so screw that.


Us flattop guys loved the helo's, H-3, H-46, H-53. They served as plane guard to pull us out of the wet stuff when we found it on accident. They brought mail, supplies, took us home and brought new guys to us.
Although it's a bit hard to see in the photo, this helo never got that wet. Her chip light went red, and she tried to get back to the deck. Her transmission failed and she lost forward flight. Indy tried to get under neath her, but we arrived to late. The Prop Jock flying her gently put her down into the sea. They have a flotation ring that can manually be deployed from the pontoon.
Known as a horse shoe she maintained a steady sea state. The Indy pulled along side, and after a bit of doing we craned the helo back on board. The helo got a fresh water bath and a tranny change and was up and flying in about two weeks time.

[BLUEHAWK]

Well, I can see where anyone aboard a flat top would look kindly on a rotor... that is very clear... I know they perform amazing service for the squids, and did more than their share of pick up and delivery in a few recent wars... I was just jerking chains.

I get that way sometimes...

[Tamaroa]

Let's see if I went to the corner I could buy a Dodge, travel towards Congers to buy a Hot Dog at Rock'in Ron's Truck, go the other way to buy a cone a Hoyer's! I think I have a clue where you hail from. Didn't your AL in that town burn down awhile back, there's a crazy Jar Head who hangs out there uses the name DOC.

Yep you ol' airdale. It did. Great guys there. My son was given several awards from that group while he was a cadet at North Rockland NJROTC. I was a snipe myself. Just call me "chips".

Hoyers is a couple hundred yards north of me.

:D :D :D

Bill

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Well, I can see where anyone aboard a flat top would look kindly on a rotor... that is very clear... I know they perform amazing service for the squids, and did more than their share of pick up and delivery in a few recent wars... I was just jerking chains.

I get that way sometimes...

I didn't think you were jerking chains. Now about those huge sloppy C-5's....

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by Tamaroa
Yep you ol' airdale. It did. Great guys there. My son was given several awards from that group while he was a cadet at North Rockland NJROTC. I was a snipe myself. Just call me "chips".
Hoyers is a couple hundred yards north of me.
:D :D :D Bill

Well, I take it you are a Hoyer's fan? Hard to find someone who isn't.
Nice to hear the NR NJROTC has done some good. I went to car wash they were running at NRHS a few years back. They had a splittail Sr. Chief running the show.
When that new AL opens up give me a shout, I'll buy you what ever you like to toss back.

[BLUEHAWK]

Yup, the C-5... quite a LARGE piece of machinery ain't it :-), but nothing compared with the equipment you seafaring ones move around the world! Was reading a Tom Clancy novel the other night, having to do in part with our ships at war... he wrote about how one of your big ones was approaching the dock after a tour, easing up to it, and the captain of the ship just let a gust of wind nudge his vessel to the mooring... a gust of wind mind ya!

I was AF right at the very end of the recip era... we had jet fighters and our beloved B-52 of course by then, but the C-5 and C-141 were in prototype stages, or maybe final check outs. If memory serves, our beautiful SR-71 was either up and running (in total secret) or just about to be. We did at the time begin using the KC-135 for a tanker, which was a jet... but our cargo was mostly hauled by 123s, 130s and 47s still then.

Believe me, I honor the choppers a whole lot... the work they did and do is astonishing, and cannot be done any other way. I just get goofy sometimes, roostering for no good reason at all :-)

[SparrowHawk62]

Well, you'd think the wind wouldn't effect something as large as a carrier. That's not the case at all. Mind you they are floating, with a thousand feet of sail. (The broad side of the ship)
Yup, they "swing" on the anchor when moored due to winds.
The Indy was blown into shallower waters enough that one of her screws got stuck in the sand. This was down in GITMO, and we bent a shaft getting unstuck! They use to move carriers into the piers in Japan by using the aircraft that were on the flight deck! Strange thing the wind can be.
As for the C-5, that is one big target! I've had the opportunity to get real up close with this beast. Always thought it was pretty cool when the put them on display and let the crowd walk through them from one end to the other. I might like them a bit more if they didn't rattle every window in my home when flying over head. Yeah, I'm that close to them at times. Night ACLS is lined up with a major road that runs behind my home, lucky me. We've also had a few loose parts fall off those things over the past few years. A flap, damned thing would have taken out a house but it wound up in the street instead. A few antennae, nuts and bolts, some frozen blue stuff and now and then a spray of fuel.
Having been in one or two Helo's I wouldn't trade them for a single fixed wing A/C! Saw some crazy Jar Heads do things with an H-46 that would put any ride at any amusement park to shame.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
Helos sure have changed a fair dinkum since I was in the garb, that IS for sure... but even when young, those few pilots could do some acrobatics to make the eye smile, like I am now.

I was just trying to picture it in my mind, a whole huge multi-ton Naval vessel, coming into dock mighty slow, then being allowed by her commander to be "nudged" to morring by God's own breeze... lovely image for the heart ain't it.

Us on the fixed wings, a whole different sense of how to go up and down from helo's, and basically, I'd rather float than drop like a rock if it could be helped.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK
Us on the fixed wings, a whole different sense of how to go up and down from helo's, and basically, I'd rather float than drop like a rock if it could be helped.

Come on now, there a bunch of A/C that have no glide scope with out power. They fall pretty hard. Saw an F-8 punch out, that bird went into the wet stuff nose first, ouch. At least with a fixed wing you have a chance of punching out.

[BLUEHAWK]

Yup, you are surely right... gotta have some WINGS, or maybe a second engine.... just wishful thinkin' is all :-)

It has been said around that my beloved Provider was "designed" to be a glider... never had an opportunity to test that concept personally, but we did have some wing span, and a fair amount of weight beneath the span, so maybe it seemed plausible... dunno.

I don't like the idea of single engines on anything (they have a tendency to fall fast and hard), and teensey wings make me nervous... so do helo's with two full time rotors one on either end; not a good sign from the git.

As usual, I have exaggerated :-) and am too dang old to be brave enough to dare fly anything single or teensey they're putting out (not that anyone would allow me in a seat anymore :-)

62, have ya ever been party to a recip run up, your own self? No offense meant or intended...

Man oh man, what a feeling... it starts out so weak, rumpada rumpada rumpada rumpy, rump, rump rummmmmmmmmmmmm, phablooey blooey blooey, whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Smoke, oil snot, more smoke... and then she's ready to work (IF my job was done right.)

[Tamaroa]

for choppers and their pilots. Then I witnessed something that left me speechless. It was in June, 1968 and we were in the atlantic assisting in the search for the submarine Scorpion lost at sea. Now my old barge the Tam was an ATF (Auxilary Tug Fleet) we had no flight deck. The newer cutters called medium endurance had a flight deck. We are talking about 35 feet by 45 feet area to land on.

the new MEC's were top heavy and rolled alot. When the weather got sporty, they really commenced to rolling wildly. Well, during the search party, I witnessed a chopper pilot land on the pitching/rolling flight deck. I had no idea how he was able to control the darn thing but I watched him start to tilt the copter in time with the roll of the cutter. Simultaneously he began his descent. With just about 10 or 15 feet left (hard to tell from where we were) he gunned into the flight deck and a bunch of the crew ran out and tethered it down with steel cable.

As my father would say "you coulda steered my knees with a spoon." What a performance.

Bill

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Y
62, have ya ever been party to a recip run up, your own self? No offense meant or intended...
Man oh man, what a feeling... it starts out so weak, rumpada rumpada rumpada rumpy, rump, rump rummmmmmmmmmmmm, phablooey blooey blooey, whirrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Smoke, oil snot, more smoke... and then she's ready to work (IF my job was done right.)

Now if you're talking about working with Prop A/C, well I've come close the E2-C is a trubo prop, that count? C-2 is the same thing only it's configured quite a bit diffrent.
The C-1, that old bird sounded like a Chevy big block with open headers. Yeah, they'd back fire and do a few other things that would but a skid mark in your skivvies. Love the sound of those machines. Another great bird that's gone to the bone yard!
Here's a photo of Indy's own little gal Miss Belle, I took this photo while we were in the Med in 1980. Sorry I'm not having any luck shrinking my attachments lately. If you take a good look at 602, she's an E2-C, a Hummer, the Navy's AWAC's bird. Yeah, it's hard to see the whole bird but you can make out the tips of her props.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
Turbos definitely have those VERRRRRRRRRY dangerous thingeys whirling around out in front, absolutely...

Hell, it was ALL amazing as far as I'm concerned... I just dumb-lucked myself into coming in at the tail end of the recip era... kinda gave me a special (not very much deserved, really) relationship with those who flew recips in prior wars, especially off of moving/rolling ships... which to me is THE definition of pilot craft and skill, helo or otherwise... especially when your folks do all that in the dead of night... cripes. Just amazing...

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK ... especially when your folks do all that in the dead of night... cripes. Just amazing...

Amazing is not quite the word I'd use. Yup, dead of night, add a bit of rain and wind, worn skid from being out for a few months.
Wouldn't find me doing that today!
Some times think how I was that stupid to have done it at all.

[Dragon Lady]

Alright I just gotta jump in here.

C5s are not sloppy! Thats my baby boy Fred (F**ing Rediculous Economic Disaster). Yep they're huge, but he can land on a carrier....once. Okay so they leak fuel and hydraulic fluid like a sive, but their have so much personality! They are one of the safest planes in AF inventory. Since the early 1960's they have only lost two planes. One during the evacuation of VN due to a suspected bomb on one refugee. and the other in Germany during Gulf War I. I'm not exactly sure what brought that one down.
If you want pictures, I post up a few I have at work on the bad boys I worked on at Dover.


As for the boats vs. ships...According to Chief Scurvy sitting next to me here...
Ships are surface vessels
Boats are subs

Guess which he worked on while active duty...yep subs. He was a nuke missle tech. Now he's a reserve mine dude.
DL

[Dragon Lady]

62,
Sounds like you're down near Stewart. Those C5s are National Guard planes. They used to fly them into Dover so we could fix them. Even Travis was know to fly a plane in with an engine strapped to the cargo floor! Yep saw it with my own eyes, never would have believed it otherwise.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -

I believe Dragon Lady has put us in our place about those C-5 beauties, VERRRRRRRRRRY l a r g e beauties, super-size :-)

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by Dragon Lady
As for the boats vs. ships...According to Chief Scurvy sitting next to me here...
Ships are surface vessels Boats are subsDL

Ah the good Chief has fogotten his Bubblehead terms!
Boats= Subs yes, the underwater Navy guys call them that, in fact they often have a Chief of the Boat. He's normally the highest ranking enlisted man on the "Boat".
Ships= are targets, in Bubble Head terms.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by Dragon Lady 62,
Sounds like you're down near Stewart. Those C5s are National Guard planes. They used to fly them into Dover so we could fix them. Even Travis was know to fly a plane in with an engine strapped to the cargo floor! Yep saw it with my own eyes, never would have believed it otherwise.

Yup, right in the flight path of Steward on a bad day. Those huge sloppy things make some noise! Always good to see a C-130, C-131, now and then a P-3. (Jar Heads are also at Steward)We even saw the birds used to fly over NYC when they highten the alert. The two birds that flew over Scankee Stadium landed at Steward after the service. The Blue Angels were here last summer. I saw most of the practice flights from my home.
Steward took care of the FED-EX cargo plane that would surely have crashed if it wasn't for this air field. That emergency was handled better than any drill ever conducted at any field in the US.
I have that on good account from a couple of the Wing Nuts that put that fire out!
Yeah, they can put a ton of stuff on those ugly things. What a target! Always keep it in the back of my mind to keep an eye out for some sand hopper with an RPG sitting on Rt. 84. 84 Lines up with one of the run ways so does the NYS Thruway. Scary to think about.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 -
I believe Dragon Lady has put us in our place about those C-5 beauties, VERRRRRRRRRRY l a r g e beauties, super-size :-)

Nope, the Wing Nuts can't keep a bird from leaking! Buddy of mine was in Plattsburgh in the mid 80's, worked for OMS Red on F-15's. Those things had more piss buckets hanging on them, then I could count. KC-135 that served in the Indian Ocean as gas in the sky, could be seen for miles by the smoke trail she layed out.
She did do some low level fly bys and that was kinda neat.
Delt with some Wing Nut F-4's in Oceana, they belched more smoke then any thing I've ever seen. Most of this was due to them being fed JP-4.
Naw, the Chair Force may think they own the skys but truely they only rent the space.
Navy Wings are made of Gold.
If it's not Navy, It's not going!
Controlled crashes at 200 mph plus, an art!
Fly Navy, all else is only a close third!
No slack in light attack.

[Tamaroa]

My son the ensign will be graduating from Navy Nuclear School in February. He had a tough choice to make. As a youngster, he fell in love with Naval aviation after he saw the movie "Top Gun". From that point on nothing stopped him from getting a commission. Funny thing was during the summers when he trained with units, he fell in love with submarines. He had passed physicals for both services and when it finally came down to it, he went subs because he said he liked the cammaraderie amongst the submariners more than the pilots. In February he will do 6 months at a nuke plant for practical experience then two months at Groton after which he will go to sea. He's hoping for an attack boat, he really liked his time on the USS Jeffeerson City.

In the end, aviation and subs are valuable assets and both services are to be admired and commended. I can't understand though, how he prefers life in a steel tube underwater, but his mother is relieved that he won't be in fighters.

Bill

[SparrowHawk62]

No matter what field your son goes into, I wish him all the luck in the world! My cousin did a few tours on subs as a Quartermaster.
He enjoyed his time, and loved the Sub community. Groton is also only a few hours away from home, 3 hours or so.
My sole was always with Carriers, I really enjoyed the aviation part of the Navy. Since I was a sixed grader (In Congers Elm.) I told folks I wanted to go into the Navy.
Wish him Fair Seas and Following Winds, he's among Shipmates!

[BLUEHAWK]

Yup... or "Ayup" as Bonesy says... airplane people kinda prefer that special silence time we come to appreciate, a WHOLE lot... the comraderie, for us (dare I say) happens in two places, 1) when we're on the mother earth again together lookin' 'er over and, 2) when we or they are "up there" and we know we did/are doing our best to, a) help her fly and, b) get her home safe.

The first CMsgt I experienced out of tech school on the line took me out to my first aircraft in person... a big ole Guppy charley one twenty-three baker, kinda portly looking affair she was... First words out of his mouth when we arrived at the crew door were, "Son, this aircraft cost Uncle Sam $6,000,000, and I want you to remember that every day." Then he left me there alone... the rest is history.

I b'leeve we'uns can hold our own up in that wild blue yonder fellers :-), rent or not we're proud to share God's own sky and we're mighty proud of our traditional association with the United States Army.

I know we're a family 62, a little ribbing never hurt a man ever...

If'n a Sub is a Boat, what is a Bass Boat?

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Yup... or "Ayup" as Bonesy says... airplane people kinda prefer that special silence time we come to appreciate, a WHOLE lot... the comraderie, for us (dare I say) happens in two places, 1) when we're on the mother earth again together lookin' 'er over and, 2) when we or they are "up there" and we know we did/are doing our best to, a) help her fly and, b) get her home safe.

The first CMsgt I experienced out of tech school on the line took me out to my first aircraft in person... a big ole Guppy charley one twenty-three baker, kinda portly looking affair she was... First words out of his mouth when we arrived at the crew door were, "Son, this aircraft cost Uncle Sam $6,000,000, and I want you to remember that every day." Then he left me there alone... the rest is history.

I b'leeve we'uns can hold our own up in that wild blue yonder fellers :-), rent or not we're proud to share God's own sky and we're mighty proud of our traditional association with the United States Army.

I know we're a family 62, a little ribbing never hurt a man ever...

If'n a Sub is a Boat, what is a Bass Boat?

[BLUEHAWK]

I get it, a Bass Boat is a Navy Helo!

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK I get it, a Bass Boat is a Navy Helo!

No, I added the photo and wiped out my reply. Hey if brains were gold, I'd need a loan and a co-signer.

Ahh, oh yeah. This is the Navy Forum so don't expect any slack from this old Squid, not here anyway. I can take it as well as the next guy. I only mean it in good fun, I get out of hand just let me know.

A bass boat is something an enlisted man can't afford on what uncle pays him. Bass boats is fer sissy boys. I do my fresh water fishing from a canoe. Salt water fishing in the Delaware Bay on a charter. One day I'll do the Yellow Fin Tuna trip... Gotta get a job first to pay for that one. Right now, I do some ice fishing, yellow perch are all that are hitting lately. Bass are down deep and the trout don't seem to be feeding. Going to try an other lake and hopefully the Pickerel with be moving.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
There's some Oakies back where I lived (Tulsa), reeb on here knows about them, who actually DIVE into rivers practically naked and GRAB big fish off the bottom with their bare hands!

And by the way (you may have covered this earlier in that long list of classifications) but I have seen Carriers the deck of which is pretty much running north and south alongside the tower, and there are other where the deck seems to have a north/south AND a NE/SW deck too... I think the planes take off on the straight one and land on the catywhompas one... but then also I have read about certains "Class" of Carriers, and so wonder what those are, and how they got their names?

[Dragon Lady]

I had the fortune of living in a brand new house right in the landing zone at Nellis AFB, NV; home of the Thunderbirds and original support base for the Stealth Fighter program. Many a FB-111 would blast over our house and rattle the windows & china. The worst was the annual return home from tour of the T-Birds. They would kick in after burners at minimum height off the deck. My poor son was only 6 months old at the time. I swear the kid has hearing problems to this day.
As for C5s making a great target heres a little known story:
In 1987 at Dover AFB a C5 (Tail #008) was siting out on the fuelcell line. This is basically a spot way out in the middle of the airfield away from the rest of the flightline. We had drained her tanks for inspection and maintenance and turned it over to the day shift. When we drain the tanks the fire suppression system is taken off line, don't need all that nitro dissipating for no good reason. The day shift had pulled her grounding wires and was prepping to tow her into the fuel docks. A freak thunderstorm cropped up and a bolt struck her right wing just inside the outboard engine. The wing exploded and half fell to the ground carrying the multimillion dollar GE TF33 engine along with it. We all hit the ground when the explosion went off. Then started running to the planes, we thought we were under attack!!
Once things calmed down, fire out, and we could get a good look at the plane it was the most amazing thing I ever witnessed. It took Lockheed and Dover nearly a year to get her airworthy again. I recently found a picture of her in Germany on a tour. I couldnt be more proud of that plane. She's quite the comeback kid.

Tell me something...If navy wings have anchors attached, how do the planes get off the ground??
Just kidding with ya.
DL

[SparrowHawk62]

Tell me something...If navy wings have anchors attached, how do the planes get off the ground??
Just kidding with ya.
DL

Those shit hooks keep us from meeting God when we fly!

[SparrowHawk62]

Blue..

This may help with your question about the shape of the decks on the carriers: http://www.air-navy.com/carev13.htm

Carriers were called:

CV Aircraft Carrier Currently still in use

CVA Attack aircraft carrier

CVAN Attack aircraft carrier, nuclear powered.

CVB Large Aircraft Carrier

CVE Escort aircraft carrier.

CVH Helicopter Carrier

CVHA Assault Helicopter Transport

CVHE Escort Helicopter Aircraft Carrier.

CVHG Helicopter Carrier with guided missile armament.

CVL Light aircraft carrier.

CVN Nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Currently still in use.

CVS Support (ASW) Aircraft Carrier.

CVT Training Aircraft Carrier

CVU Utility Aircraft Carrier

I don't know what they all were, most of the time they were mission related.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
Your completness astounds the old Zoomer... but what I was asking is a question I could not form... the Navy calls them a certain "Class" of carrier oir sub or frigate or cruiser, such as (this is fictitious) a "John Paul Jones" class.

What is that about, those classifications associated with great Naval leaders?

I mean, how is that decided? How is a Zoomer to know what they are meaning?

I asked the question wrong.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -

How come ya'll have to have so MANY names to call things?

Also.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 -
Your completness astounds the old Zoomer... but what I was asking is a question I could not form... the Navy calls them a certain "Class" of carrier oir sub or frigate or cruiser, such as (this is fictitious) a "John Paul Jones" class.
What is that about, those classifications associated with great Naval leaders?
I mean, how is that decided? How is a Zoomer to know what they are meaning?
I asked the question wrong.

Oh, I gotta ya. Well it's a simi easy answer. A class of ship is normally named for the first one made that differs from one before it. For example the Forrestal class of Carriers the Forrestal CV-59, Saratoga CV-60, Ranger CV-61 and Independence CV-62 were all of the same class, Forrestall.
Now they went and moved an aircraft elevator from aft of the island structure to forward of the island, thus this was a new design, thus a new Class, Kitty Hawk. That class includes the Kitty Hawk CV-63, Constellation CV-64 and the America CV-66 Then things get a bit screwed up, the Enterprise CVN-65 is a class of her own. The Kennedy originally was to be a nuke but she was fitted as a conventional carrier CV-67 she is in a class of her own. Then the Nukes started Nimitz CVN-68 and that class continued until the USS Truman CVN-75. I'm not sure if the Reagan CVN-76 will start a new class or not, her Island Structure is very different from the others in this class...
What you also need to keep in mind is that I was an Airedale, Aviation is my field. You're asking suface navy questions! Notice I only stuck with the carriers in my answer, because I know a bit about them the other ships are only a guess, but the class naming is pretty much the same, first ship sets the standard until it is changed.
Now if the Ships name happens to be that of a Naval hero then the class name carries over to them all.
Any help? I'll keep trying if not.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 -
How come ya'll have to have so MANY names to call things?
Also.

Gives some collage boy something to do. Ships under changes much like aircraft. They are upgraded, mods made, etc.
That last letter in an A/C designation is a good example.
The HS-3G, well that turned into the HS-3H. Best way to tell them apart is by the pontoons. You should get the picture by now, sure you saw a few A/C changes?