Politics and the playground

[melody1181]

Those two have so much in common.

Politics tend to rip and tear friends and people apart...even families. Why, because people tend to act like children and start calling names. On a playground more often than not there is groups of kids that make fun of the other groups and so on.

Been readin on this site for a while and I used to be on the history channel way way back. I respect all you guys on here. When it comes to politics it was the same there as it is here(of course with a few less idiots) And I bet that all of ya'll are about as stuborn as could be. No one is ever going to change anyones mind cause let me tall ya there already set.

Why does politics and politicians have to be so dirty? Why do we let what politicians do divide so many people? :d:

[HARDCORE]

"An echo perhaps - again, true words of wisdom!!"

VERITAS, VERITAS :z: :z:

[melody1181]

Sorry about that...don't even know what happened for it to repost

[travisab1]

Bush;
PARDON ME!!!

Clinton did!!!

Nixon did!!!

Why not Bush? My bird in my hand is worth two in the Bushs'

Travis

[Seascamp]

Politicos by art form and inclination leave everything open ended, subjective and with multiple escape routes to multiple other positions. More or less a kind of ?now ya see me now ya don?t? fancy footwork and sidestep dance. That being the only absolute, all the supposed constituents are left to figure out what the politico said or what in means. Some even feeling deficient because they don?t want to admit that they don?t understand a word of it to someone who doesn?t understand a word either but won?t admit it.

Therein comes the political debate where the blind are leading the blind through the kaleidoscopic eye of the swirling nebulous of no magnetic north, no gravity, and no absolutes or constants. Soon this environment acts to eliminate social constraints learned in kindergarten like no biting, scratching, hitting, kicking and play nice concepts.

And at the end of the period in the swirling nebula, no one has a clue as to what anyone else said, everyone goes off to band-aid therapy, swears off politics forever only to jump back into the fray at first opportunity.
In the interim, the politico?s greatest fear is that the inertia of the swirling nebula loose energy so they are compelled to again make totally non-understandable pronouncement or policy positions that act to restore the nebula to a stable state of unstable equilibrium.

It?s all as easy as that so no big deal and a piece of cake eh, LOL. :D

Scamp

[reconeil]

Re.: "Why do we let what politicians do divide so many people"?

You might not like my answer,...but it's as honest as I can make it.

Politicians do what they do merely because they're politicians and/or those thriving quite well and achieving or retaining power and control OVER ALL, by perpetually keeping people divided and ideologically pitted against each other.

Hey Mel,...if you really think about it, "Divide and Conquer" was, is, and will always be more so of political usage, than such was, is, or will ever be used militarily.

As to: "Why do we let...", The Political System is so well entrenched in most every facet of American Life,...The People have no choice in the matter. 1776 was then,...and now is now.
All The American Citizenry can do now, are to adamently pressure politicos or rulers into not eventually turning America into another Hong Kong, or perpetual political refuge for everyone on earth wishing to sneak-in here. During wartime, such even quite foolishly worse and/or nationally-suicidal.

Sorry,
Neil

[BLUEHAWK]

I'll venture just this... minds DO and ARE changed here, and in other rooms with tables where someone might have been, or let themselves become, a person they never intended to be.

It took a "change of mind" to move from being a British Loyalist to an American Revolutionary partisan, as one example.

Minds DO change, and should when the evidence is sufficient or the time is right, or there is no other choice.

Just a thought...

[BLUEHAWK]

In other words, I would rather believe that most of us are not so much stubborn as we are convinced of the reasoning by which we have arrived at certain conclusions on very important matters involving patriots and patriotism.

It would seem rather cowardly to stick with a position just for the sake of being stubborn... many are the examples from history when people did so with tragic results... truly tragic.

Everyone hangs it out there from time to time, or has a really bad day, or is fed up, or cannot forget a suffering, or exaggerates an insult, or misunderstands a joke, or places the emPHAsis on the wrong sylLAble, or is in the right church but the wrong pew, or is just too mean or too obsequious at the improper moment...

However, the purpose of dialogue is to advance the ball as a team.

[SparrowHawk62]

Let me put another one of my shipmates in the ground, and I'll tell you all about the filthy politicians.
The Liberty
The Cole
Operation Eagle Claw
Cuts at the VA hospitals..
I can't stand a damned one of them, liers the whole friggen bunch. Kerry is going to be among the top of shit spewing liers when this race is all done.
Fat Ted, Hillary, Schumer, all liers. Yeah, they'll take my tax money and spend it on some crack head breeder pig, but not give one dime to help a Vet......

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
Not meaning to be argumentative, and ain't gonna engage in it...

However, the political professionals have accomplished the good and the bad over the course of our nation's (and ALL nation's) life mostly with our compliance or O U R failure to control them... they are just like anyone else, some honest and decent, some not.

We are a federalist republic, and there is very little chance of that changing. I, myself, do not favor that form of government. .. preferring instead a direct democracy, in the traditional Athenian sense of those terms. I merely believe that history demonstrates such a form works better in the long and short runs. It is about as untidy as the federalist system, but has the added advantage of very immediate results when the body politic is dissatisfied with the direction of the people's government (e.g. how veterans are dealt with). And, it needs not lurch over into communism or socialism to be effective.

Here is how we might begin, as Americans and patriots:

Abolish -
- Gerrymandering
- Electoral College
- Closed primaries

Food for thought, if not balm in Gilead...

[BLUEHAWK]

p.s.
Not that it will make a dime's worth of difference to you or anyone else on PF, but I, also, have put a serious and regular study to this for almost 40 years...

[BLUEHAWK]

What the heck (I'm an old man), I will permit myself to re-express where I believe we began going wrong (see also: Civil War and Revolutionary War forums) -

The Constitutional Convention was purposefully called, in my opinion, to redress these major difficulties which our new nation suffered from:
- Inability to pay the Rev War soldiers
because there were at least 13 different currencies (one for each state) and no central bank.
- The Articles of Confederation under which our new nation was operating were not sufficiently explicit about commerce and the military.

So, the landed gentry (for the most part) whose names were on the tongue, or who were deemed gullible enough to accept the assignment were voted to be in attendance at Philadelphia WITH THE SOLE MANDATE of revising, I repeat, REVISING the Articles of Confederation and meet the urgent needs of an infant government still smarting from the horrors and exhilarations of a won war.

What they took it upon themselves to do, instead, was to SECRETLY (never doubt that it WAS utterly in secret!), write an entirely new Constitution under which we are said to live as we speak with one another today.

The Bill of Rights, rather than being a welcome addition, was an out and out compromise addendum, put in because without it there would NOT have been ANY formative, fundamental document to come from Philadelphia. There were men such as my esteemed Patrick Henry in attendance those days... who stood his ground against the tyrannies from which our forebears had just recently extricated themselves, but I can safely testify that from the evidence of history, his honorable remembrances were not well received by the likes of Madison and several others. Washington himself kept a diplomatic distance, as did others whose voices in support of the Articles might, or would, have made the key difference. Who could blame them for their reluctance... high issues were at stake, not least was the PAYING of warriors for their good and victorious services in time of need. I understand that all or most officers HAD received their compensations, but not the men. The government, the new and infantile government was truly at peril, for the men could not bear any more weight upon their families. Henry knew this, as did others, and they strived to communicate how America MUST not ever after fall back upon the very ways from which with blood and sorrow we had just relieved our people.

Yet, as still today happens, the powers of money, convenience or payback held sway. and America got a federalist republic under which we stand... instead.

Due to this result, in 1860-65 we commenced a War of Rebellion (as some still name it), with still greater murderous killing and terror amongst our kith and kin...over, I believe, the simple idea that:

Either we are a TRULY federal republic (e.g. we have an AMERICAN driver license), or we are independent sovereign states.

I say we ought be a federal republic, but in the form of a direct democracy, where one has their vote, and that vote is sacred.

Ther you have it... what say you?