War - Guantanamo

[BLUEHAWK]

Some so-called "facts" about our outpost in Cuba (cannot speak for their factuality, but they have appeared in respoectable Press);

I simply found these "facts" interesting :D


- It is a Navy base, not a Marine post (is that what one calls it Bones/Drifter?)
- It is officially known today as "Joint Task Force Guantanamo"
- Chief counsel for the detainee's defense is Zoomie Colonel Will Gunn, supervising 6 lawyers who work from the proximity of the Pentagon
- Almost nobody in Cuba speaks Spanish
- Spaniards were evicted from Cuba by the USA in 1898
- Guantanamo occupies 45 square miles on the southern coast of Cuba
- Under a 1903 treaty the USA has a "perpetual lease" of Guantanamo
- The annual rent for Guantanamo is now $4080.00 per year, which is offered to Cuba every year, but has not been accepted by Castro in four decades
- In the 1990s, the USA removed all our mines from the DMZ, Cuba has not done so, on their side, yet
- In January 2002 prisoners were moved there (Camp X-Ray) from Afghanistan.
- In April 2002 X-Ray was replaced by Camp Delta.
- 200 journalists and delegations from 50 foreign governments plus many elected American government officials and Red Cross have visited
- Camp Delta has cost $70,000,000 to build
- Inmates there are from 44 countries
- 21 inmates have attempted suicide, none successfully thusfar
- Guards view prisoners twice every 60 seconds
- In the past year 80 new prisoners have arrived
- The base has a population of 5000, an outdoor movie theatre, 9-hole golf course, one McDonald's (okay, so SUE me for not posting your stupid trademark!!!), speed limit is 25mph everywhere
- 2200 military personnel are there, half of whom are Reserves or Guard
- 5 Cubans work on the base
- Troopers greet one another with the report, "Honor Bound!"
- There are no prisoners from Iraq there

Taken from:
ANNALS OF LAW
"Inside the Wire", by: Jeffrey Toobin
NEW YORKER magazine
Feb 9, 2004





:a:

[David]

I have never been there but I had a few friends who's fathers had been stationed there and they said they loved that outdoor movie theater. I wonder if it is still in operation.

One other fact to add: most people around the Navy call it "Gitmo" :)

[SparrowHawk62]

I was there in the early 80's a few times. What a lovely looking country! Man the water was so clear, in fact we did enjoy a swim call while anchored there. Great looking BASE, have a mud pig friend who's been to Camp Delta a few times, she says the duty is rough at best. Shame an air base is now a prison.

[BLUEHAWK]

Davey,

Yes, it should have been "Gitmo" that I said, quite right.

Gitmo it is...

62,

What got you there in the 80's?

[BLUEHAWK]

Hey you grunts and others!

Say a prayer for my brother Zoomie Colonel Will Gunn... they gave him the shit detail of all time, recently.

Sir Gunn!

SALUTE

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK
62,
What got you there in the 80's?

Aircraft carriers use to stop there while doing work ups or ref tra.
Oh yeah, ahh that would be Work Ups for a cruise, or Ref Tra refresher training. Work ups were only a week or so, ref tra could last a month or a bit more.
I paid my visits while on the USS Independence CV-62, wish I could have gone ashore, if nothing more than to just get a Base Patch.

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -

Some years ago I stood in a looooooooooong line a looooooooooooong time with my youngest son, to get aboard the USS Independence moored in San Francisco Bay, near Hunter's Point. What a treat she was... a Zoomie's nightmare, where in the frick does a person park an airplane? :-)

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 -
Some years ago I stood in a looooooooooong line a looooooooooooong time with my youngest son, to get aboard the USS Independence moored in San Francisco Bay, near Hunter's Point. What a treat she was... a Zoomie's nightmare, where in the frick does a person park an airplane? :-)

So you went aboard my old boat? Shame she was on the wrong coast at the time, 89 or early 90's? Know what you mean about lines, on a carrier you wait in line to do just about everything there is to do. Waited a few hours to eat a Thanksgiving meal, but it was well worth it.
The parking got a bit tight at times. We had ample room in the basement (hanger bay) and sticking birds TOW (tail over water) would leave the roof (flight deck) opened up some. It was all well tought out, although at times one wouldn't think so.
When it had to get moved, they called on us, the ABH's!

[BLUEHAWK]

62 -
It was quite a thrill for the boy and me... it must have been '89 or '90, thereabouts anyhow, maybe a bit earlier (I have more frequent senior moments than I would want these days :-)... I know for sure it was between '88 & '90.

I was just pulling your leg about parking planes, there really IS a lot of room below the "roof", more than was previously imaginable to a non-sailor. I could barely imagine what things must get like when there are a lot of aircraft going up and down those elevators and getting moved around, like a Rubic's Cube maybe?

It was amazing to be aboard such a huge war ship.

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 -
It was quite a thrill for the boy and me... it must have been '89 or '90, thereabouts anyhow, maybe a bit earlier (I have more frequent senior moments than I would want these days :-)... I know for sure it was between '88 & '90.
I was just pulling your leg about parking planes, there really IS a lot of room below the "roof", more than was previously imaginable to a non-sailor. I could barely imagine what things must get like when there are a lot of aircraft going up and down those elevators and getting moved around, like a Rubic's Cube maybe?
It was amazing to be aboard such a huge war ship.

I'd bet it was some time in 89, Indy had just moved to the wrong coast, by 91 she was in Japan. Was your son on the Indy? I have all of her cruise books, I could look him up..
Yeah you Chair Farce guys fly all those huge target type A/C, don''t think to many of them would fit on a carrier.
Man, when flight opps were in full swing there wasn't a better place to be then on the roof! What a show, well thought out and planned for each "event". Off course when a bird went broke dick, that would screw things up, but that was fairly rare.
They are only huge when tied up to the pier. After a month or so out to sea they shrink quite a bit! :D

[BLUEHAWK]

Nope 62, he was a really LITTLE boy then... his name is Mercury, he has red hair (jus' like one in every generation of our clan :-) Today, I am saddened to report, he has yet to see the valor in service... I tried, by showing him (several times) the real McCoy.

Question for ya... I see those Navy planes whose wings fold up... what were the maintenance rigors for a mechanism such as that? I mean to ask, did they tend to be sensitive and break down a fair amount, or were those hinge turning flip up fall back twist sideways dealies pretty reliable?

[BLUEHAWK]

62 p.s.

Do you think a C123 Provider could land on a carrier if it had a tail hook?

We had a real reliable bird, very stout and gutsy, with a real short landing pattern when a fine pilot was aboard. Taking off would be another matter of course, we did tend to need some JATO for short lifts :-)

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK
Question for ya... I see those Navy planes whose wings fold up... what were the maintenance rigors for a mechanism such as that? I mean to ask, did they tend to be sensitive and break down a fair amount, or were those hinge turning flip up fall back twist sideways dealies pretty reliable?

I never delt with the maintenace end of the birds, we had squadron pukes for that. But from all my time on deck, I don't recall to many fold and stow problems. Navy Birds were built fairly tough, wing fold was a major inovation and well thought out.
Some were wing tip folds (F4 A7), others were cross over folds (A6), tuck back folds E2.
Now the only time I did see a major SNAFU was when an Marine H-53 went Plam Tree on us. (Couldn't get the rotor blades to fold)
then the turbine went tit's up and the damned thing wouldn't start! Wound up they took the blades off manually with the help of the Air Craft Crane- Tilly. What a job, bird went to the basement untill spare parts arrived, then the reverse of the blade removal! For the rest of the cruise the Air Boss would not let one of those things shut down on deck!

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK 62 p.s.
Do you think a C123 Provider could land on a carrier if it had a tail hook?
We had a real reliable bird, very stout and gutsy, with a real short landing pattern when a fine pilot was aboard. Taking off would be another matter of course, we did tend to need some JATO for short lifts :-)

As we use to say, you can land anything on a carrier, once!
Don't know about the 110 foot wing span, might be a tad bit tight.
Biggest thing I dealt with was the A-3 Skywarrior, she has a wing span of 72 and a half feet and they fold!
The C123 might not have the wings for carrier landings, they'd need some reinforcement. JATO launches might not be such a good thing either. Most jet blast is straight back, JATO is directed down at an angle, wouldn't do the non skid on the deck any good.
I wouldn't want to be standing on deck watching!

[BLUEHAWK]

Interesting... what got me thinking about it was the idea of a 123 bird being, say, out over ocean and in peril, sighting a carrier and asking to land... what would your skipper do?

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by BLUEHAWK Interesting... what got me thinking about it was the idea of a 123 bird being, say, out over ocean and in peril, sighting a carrier and asking to land... what would your skipper do?

More then likely he'd have them attempt either a sea landing, a very risky operation or tell them all to bail out. Either way they'd be picked up by a helo.
There's no way they would be allowed to attempt a deck landing, to much danger to the ship and the crew.

[BLUEHAWK]

Probably so 62... at least that makes sense. Water landings, it would seem, depend on a lot of factors such as the center of gravity on a given aircraft, angle & speed of entry, etc etc etc.

I know we could shut our bird right down to stop in a fairly short length of space, but I've forgotten just HOW short, and never knew how LONG a carrier deck is likely to be.

In any case, the danger would be there in spades, and nobody could fly the thing off the deck (well, probably nobody) afterward either.

I've read some amazing tales of Navy helo pilots doing astounding things in extremely bizarre conditions.

If I COULD get out of the plane, getting thoroughly wet with one of your helos around would not be much of a worry.