How soon they forget, old records can still bite

[MORTARDUDE]

How soon they forget old records can still bite

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." - President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." - President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." - Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten time since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." - Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin (D-MI), Tom Daschle (D-SD), John Kerry( D - MA), and others Oct. 9,1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has .... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." - Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." - Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." - Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." - Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." - Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force-- if necessary-- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" - Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weap ons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members.. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002

"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real" - Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

[SuperScout]

Although your cogent reminder has been posted before, once I recall even my yours truly, it bears repeating to do nothing more than remind all folks still capable of fogging a mirror making any decision based on perhaps faulty data is not in and of itself constitute the basis of a "lie." Were that the case, then the whiners and snivelers would also have to attach the same label to the people you just quoted. What nobody has adequately addressed yet is since we know that SH had the stuff, a point of which there is dang-near universal agreement, what the Schmeck did he do with it all? And given the complete looniness of his two sons of a scorpion, is anybody naieve enough to think that these two paragons of virtue wouldn't have used it, if they could get their hands on it? Fortunately, a healthy dose of firepower has rid the world of SH's sons.

[Seascamp]

My first real political lesson, RVN 66-68: Only rarely, if ever, is reality politically advantageous or acceptable.

Currently all the past statements as noted are not politically viable and the DNC faithful that so much as utter a reference to any of it are on the way to the political leper colony forever and ever amen. And it?s an absolute that each statement now has or soon will have an antidote statement that has been whipped up by various and assorted Spin Doctors. One handicap right now is that it?s a bit difficult to retrofit the ?Bush deceived us? excuse/scenario back into the Clinton Administration, but where there is a will there is a way I suppose. So I expect we?ll get that saga spread on the table right next to the chicken-shit pate spread and bull-shit guacamole dip that the voting public is epected to consume.

In my darker moments I think it would have been better if Al Bore had gone to Washington. That way after 9/11 we would have never messed with Afghanistan or Iraq or had this war on terrorism, Tippy would be giggling in the clinic, Al would be all sweaty and confused and the world at equilibrium, or seemingly so.

Scamp

[SuperScout]

We may need to schedule a therapy session with Bro. Keith, to help rid you of such nightmarish and ghoulish dark moments of seeing Algore in Washington! After seeing his latest screaming harrange in New York, I'm of the opinion that not only did he endorse Howard Dean, he actually taught Howard Dean how to become hysterical.

My prediction is that the Demos got as much traction as they could out of this hollow tube of baloney, and it will disappear off the radar screen of poltical visiblity. They don't want the voters to really think about it and see what a bunch of hypocritical phoneys they really are.

[BLUEHAWK]

Back about 18 months ago or so when the war drums were still being heard faintly far off in the distance it was pretty darn clear to me that somebody other than Afghanistan was going to pay a price for 9/11... there is not a president in office who could possibly have let that situation pass.

Not having had any instruction of the War College I am no tactician, but it was also pretty obvious that whatever was done could not succeed by a 30, 60, 90 day or six month bombing campaign again... too many casualities on the ground and ill-chosen targets or not the right ones.

In fact, one major way in which this war is so unlike VN is that in the latter case our forces were largely going against a full-fledged army in the field... which is definitely not the status in Iraq or the middle east anywhere that I am aware of. To me it reads like a real-life one of those police exercises where the targets just pop up at you spontaneously and you have to decide whether to pull or not.

I was against an invasion of Iraq, but then I'd be pretty much against any kind of war if it could possibly be avoided. Thing is, in this case, it could not be... not if there is to be safety in America. So, WMD as one of several rationale made sense actually... no doubt at all the Iraqi thought nothing of using it, and it doesn't even matter how they got the stuff or where they put it.

Frankly, WMD and the Baathist's hideously cruel conduct of their government were sufficient reasons for us to protect ourselves... if for no other reason than ya gotta start SOMEWHERE in a case like we are in.

I am unspeakably proud of the way our President in particular (I'll leave aside any editorial comments about his advisors) and our military are conducting this war both on the ground and philosophically.

I do sincerely hope, however, VERY sincerely, that the diplomatic circles go as far towards helping Iraq arrange its elections THE WAY THEY SEE FIT, for better or worse, that would be far more productive than to fiddle around with it too much on the first go 'round.

[Seascamp]

Yikes! Anything but a therapy session with Keith, :ek: how about throw me in the briar patch instead eh.
Ok, ok, I?m good now. Just a bit of a prop stall, no big deal, some stick and pedal and there?. ya get a snap roll, all better now.

Yup, I?m still amazed to have born witness to both Dean and Gore end up being bow-down, smoldering, listing hulks being towed into the scrap yard. But then, it?s not nice to mess with Mother Kennedy cuz bad shit happens ya know. Dean found out what it?s like to step on a command-detonated anti-tank mine and he went a flying ass over teakettle into oblivion. Bore knew better but I suspect he forgot the rules again, the first of which is Teddy makes all the rules and there are no other rules, so he got shunted to earth one more time. I almost feel sorry for them, but not really. I do feel sorry for the people that put their all into Dean?s campaign only to watch it poof out in an instant, kind of like they flew into the side of an unexpected mountain (Mt. Teddy actually, but shush on that news, it?s secret stuff ya know).

And Blue there ya go again, thinking rationally. From day one I knew we didn?t have the unity or resolve necessary to take on the Iraq situation. So Bush jumps off the diving board and the pool is drained before he crosses the water line and splat. Ouch!!

No Blue, I would disagree with you about Iraq doing what they want to do. Not to be I?m afraid. Chances are that an open election would be strictly along religious lines and that would put a Shiite Cleric at the head of the food chain and controlling the food chain. Of course that would be the first and last free election for Iraq for a very long time, if ever again.
And a Shiite Cleric at the helm would mean another gory and bloody Iraqi civil war. No, there has to be some strong local and secular influence at the top of an emerging Iraqi government or kaboooooooooom, off they go Jihad, Jihad, Jihad all the way down the path to another living hell.

Scamp

[BLUEHAWK]

Scamp - what I was thinking is this... rather than try to overly control electoral things in Iraq and get blamed when they go bad, which they are gonna do no matter what path is taken (at least this first decade or less), why not just support their own manner and way regardless of how they work it out... they will own it then, and be more highly motivated to refine their system rather than revising ours :D

America has a tendency to put a lot of barriers between the voter and their vote including primaries (mostly closed), gerrymandering, electoral college, super majorities, caucuses, conventions, party platforms, straw votes etc etc etc. Maybe Iraq doesn't WANT a Republic?