So if veterans' benefits can't be revoked absent the element of fraud, what's the cause of all the hysteria? If some were awarded because of fraud, doesn't that simply purify the system, and allow more monies to be directed to the worthy? Would not a standardized formula for determining PTSD make much more sense and hopefully eleminate the fraud issue entirely? Simple mistakes in paperwork and understaffing does not explain away the vast divergence in determinations made regionally.

No..............But what Packo said does! And it comes from the fact that the VA IS 'understaffed' AND inadequately 'trained' in part due to "understaffing" and mismangement at 'regional' facilities.

PS--The VA ALREADY has 'standardized' formulas for determining PTSD....the 'problem' is that the above mentioned irregularities have compounded the inefficiency and workloads at 'regional' facilities more in certain locations than others!

If standardized formulas are in place as claimed, why the dratic variance in granting 100% comparing Illinois vs. New Mexico? I agree totally with what Paco said, in case you missed that. It is not a function of manpower or mere clerical errors, but more an element of subjective mindset and prejudicial treatment for certain diagnoses.

Here is the problem with finding fraud and the VA. If they acknowldege that some areas of the country apparently awarded
100% for PTSD cases at a far greater rate than other areas of the country, where are the folks who are going to ferret out the fraud come from ? Will they disclose this ? Will these folks have even worked on PTSD issues before ? What appeal rights will the parties whose awards supposedly fraud have as a recourse ?T he whole thing sounds like it will lead to an even bigger mess than is supposed to exist now.

By the way...Medicare claims may have a fraud rate as high as 25% or more, and this has been known for many years. The amount of money involved dwarfs the budget of the whole VA.....what is being done about that ?

Larry

Larry
 

Gimpy has hit the nail on the head. ACCOUNTABILITY. Unless this has changed, and I doubt it, there has never been any accountablility toward adjudicators and claims. Take my Door Gunner Patient as a prime example.

As I always did to help ferret out wannabees, but usually can tell them off the bat, I used to, with the veterans permission and signature, send to St Louis for their 201 file. It also would give me help if the patient was interested in filing a claim. The veteran had told me he was a door gunner with the 229th Aviation Assault Helicopter Company, which was a 1st Air Cav Slick unit. His DD214 verified that. He had been awarded numerous, like 30, Air Medals, crewman wings, etc etc. This also was on his DD214 along with MOS, which was, I think, like 67A10, DOOR GUNNER. His 201 file verified all this and that he was trained at Ft Rucker Ala at the Door Gunner School. We filed his claim for PTSD and he chose PVA to represent him. Before he ever had his C&P he recieved a letter from the VA denying his claim due to, now get this, NO EVIDENCE HE EVER SERVED AS A DOOR GUNNER OR EVER WAS IN VIETNAM. Vietnam service, campaign medals, etc where on 214 and confirmed by 201. Now, they had the same records I did. Explain that. Well, another case of either screw PTSD claims, or expediant disposition of claim, just deny it. Was the adjudicator punished for what could NOT HAVE POSSIBLY BEEN A MISTAKE? No, according to the PVA NSO, this was the norm not an isolated incident. The mindset was and I believe still is, let them sort it out on appeal, we get a bean count for doing a claim fast. And they used to get cash bonuses for processing them fast. Does this still go on? Yep, just ask Pighmpr what happened to him when he filed for PTSD and his AO related Prostate Cancer. He was denied PTSD, WITHOUT A C&P because, get this, he couldn't prove he'd ever been treated for it. Now who says you have to be treated for it before you file for it. (Plus there was evidence he WAS treated for it as far back as 1978/79 in the DAV'S Forgotten Warrior Project. He was denied Prostate Cancer because of "no evidence he has prostate cancer". The records of his prostate cancer and subsequent operation didn't count I guess. I am not optimistic that this problem will ever be solved and that's why we need to be members of service organizations to get them the dues to keep these NSO'S fighting in the RO's forever or we are screwed my friends!

Hawk, I think you'v also hit he nail on the head with a Hooverville kind of demonstration in Washington. A HUGE crowd of Veterans from all Wars....nobody could call us LEFT/RIGHT or any of those labels.....it would be Bi-partisan VETS! I swear, that unless I'm dead or in a hospital, I would attend such an event no matter how much I hate big cities, especially DC.

Scout I thank you and believe we are all on the same page of the hymnal here, and that's what it will take.

Larry, thanks for the kind words.....but also, sadly, what Gimpy says.

Pack

Pack
thanks for your words and explanations. I'm sorry to hear about Dan's troubles--didn't he get ANY rating at all for PTSD? He's got a Purple Heart!
thats why it was such a big deal for me to finally get my CIB first. It took me 3 tries--the first time they said it went to the wrong place but the 2d said there was no evidnce that I should have been awarded it! You know I always was afraid of applying for it because I was afraid they'd say exactly that and I'd go bonkers. Well they did but I didn't--it just made me mad as hell. So I went to the Congressman and he resubmitted it. Then I got it. Thats what Dan should do.
My CIB letter is from the same person (Lt Col Deborah Ivory) who said there wasn't any evidence, although I submitted orders, pictures,letters from 3 people who served with me including Dan and my lrrp platoon leader and I was supported fully by my lrrp/Ranger Assoc.
I know full well how incomplete records from Those Days can screw you. I figured I needed the CIB to really make the case and to make the military admit I served in combat. It was a real shame on them I had to do it.
I'll be glad to join you when the demonstrations start and it needs to start with veterans who voted in this Administration.
I'll be waiting right here
Stay good, all
James

James,

Dan has the best NSO I've ever dealt with in all my years of dealing with VA messes. His NSO is getting everything sorted out and Dan will be getting at least a C&P. His Oncologist, my step-son, has resubmitted everything about his cancer and operation but this time sent it right to Dan who hand carried to his NSO. All this will get worked out eventually but it just shows how they operate. They can't turn you down, legally, without a C&P physiscal......but they did. Another reason to make sure you have representation. I voted for this administration and would still go to a veterans protest in a minute. The VA has been screwed up for more years than this administration has been around....believe me, but I'm still pissed about other stuff that the administration is doing with veterans benefits. I don't have to like everything somebody does just cause I voted for them. I have the balls to call a spade a spade and when someone I voted for screws up.....I'm going to let them know it and if it takes me limping in the streets of Washington, I'll be there.

I can almost guarantee that Dan will get both his ratings.....it's just the illegal bullshit the VA pulls on Vets that gets me and what they do is illegal! James, if your not able to speak to Dan I will keep you posted and will also let him know to give you a buzz. I should be talking with him today or tomorrow.

Abu!

Pack

Paco -

I think the chances of a "Bonus" camp in DC again are fairly good if this keeps up...

Hopefully, the result will be different this time though... last time it didn't turn out too well.

The history of that movement might be somehow instructive at this moment in time.

Remember that in 1932 and thereabouts there were several "Hoovervilles" in various parts of the USA though... the Bonus camp was mostly Vets, seeking what they viewed as fulfillment of a promise that had been made to them by the government.