Maine revolts against digital U.S. ID card
 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070126/...sa_idcard_dc_1

BOSTON (Reuters) - Maine lawmakers on Thursday became the first in the nation to demand repeal of a federal law tightening identification requirements for drivers' licenses, a post-September 11 security measure that states say will cost them billions of dollars to administer.


Maine lawmakers passed a resolution urging repeal of the Real ID Act, which would create a national digital identification system by 2008. The lawmakers said it would cost Maine about $185 million, fail to boost security and put people at greater risk of identity theft.

Maine's resolution is the strongest stand yet by a state against the law, which Congress passed in May 2004 and gave states three years to implement. Similar repeal measures are pending in eight other states.

"We cannot be spending millions of state dollars on an initiative that does more harm to our state than good," said Maine's House Majority leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat, in a statement that called it a "massive unfunded federal mandate."

The ID act sets national standards for licenses which will have to include a digital photo, anti-counterfeiting features and machine-readable technology.

States will have to verify documents presented with license applications such as birth certificates, Social Security cards and utility bills, and will have to link their license databases so they can all be accessed as a single network.

States also will have to verify that a person applying for a license is in the country legally. States will be able to issue separate credentials to illegal aliens so that they will still be able to drive.

The National Governors Association, the National Conference of State Legislatures and the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators said in a September report that the law would cost states more than $11 billion over five years and take at least another seven years to implement.

"It's a national ID card on steroids," said Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's Technology and Liberty Project. "This will indeed be a real nightmare.

But backers say the driver's license -- a primary means of identification in the United States -- is fundamentally insecure because of widespread identity theft.

Some 227 million people hold drivers' licenses or identity cards given out by states, which issue or renew about 70 million each year.

M-Dude,.......
 

"Fail to boost security and put people at greater risk of identity
theft.",........REALLY??????????????????

So then, and since obviously quite the opposite will occur in both
instances,...are Maine Lawmakers just not-dealing-with-full-decks
or just plain stupid?? Or,...are they both nuts & stupid?

Neil :cd: :cd: :cd:

Not mentioned in the argument is the cost of not knowing exactly who is here, their intensions, or the cost of entitlement program fraud that is an absolute monster of corruption now breaking surface. All things being on the same playing field, the identified are getting the crap-end of the stick and the unidentified are getting the gravy. Maybe, and in fairness, everyone should go unidentified and get in on the gravy and preferential treatment.

Possibly Maine isn?t being drained by welfare fraud, unearned social freebees, etc., etc., or is not willing to open the books to the real cost, and balance a ?sure n? certain vote captive audience ? against what amounts to favoritism toward an unidentified culture at the expense and what is tantamount to discrimination against the indigenous identified unfortunates paying the freight.

It appears that Maine is the place to be for the unidentified to go. Right now, just do it, daylight is a wastin, Maine or bust, eh, adios. They can have all of that they can handle, and presumably the citizens of Maine are really up for the influx of the unidentified and all the joys that come with such an acquisition.

Scamp

This guy is right and wrong in the same statement.
We need a national ID card. and the Drivers License security sucks.
Just about every system in our government is outdated and insecure and sometimes just stupid.

I'm not sure even where to start,
The SS system should be scrapped. It was never meant to be a retirement system, Make the people put what money they give to SS , Give it to mutual fund.

Income tax rates are stupid. the more you make the more you pay.?
It should be a consumer tax and at a given rate, then everyone pays the same and those that don't belong in this country also pay.
Close the IRS department and all the tax loop holes along with it.

Stream line all, let me say that again ALL government agencies, form county government to Federal government. Theres no reason to have more county and state employees in Road Island than residents.
Double the size of all counties for a start.

Why is there a FBI, CIA, NSA department, aren't they all on the same side?


And on and on.

Scamp...
 

Given all the additional, ongoing and existing realities you
brought up (Never mind an: "Influx".), such should make all The
American Citizens of Maine wonder just whom their lawmakers
are ACTUALLY concerned about and/or ACTUALLY representing?

Sure-as-hell doesn't seem like Maine Representatives are
ACTUALLY representing: "Mainers" or even U.S. Citizens,...for that matter?

Hey,...maybe a lot of New Jersey Politicians moved up to Maine?
Such would explain much.

Neil

From my point.
 

I don't think Maine is so concerned about security issues. The Real ID Act is what we in political circles call and "Unfunded Mandate" When I was on the city counsel and a mayor I hated "Unfunded Mandates." That's when the State or Federal Government tells the local government they must implement a certain program with the benefit telling them just how they are to fund the program. In smaller communities with limited budgets and I suppose the same could be said for smaller states like Maine that don't have a large financial base an "Unfunded Mandate" can bring terrible havoc on their budget. Just reading through the thread its sounds like their complaints are more financial than security. Probably a legitimate concern for a small budget state like Maine.

Keith

neil :

I really try to understand you, but I must say that it is real difficult. I worked for the IRS for 32 years. I was in the Information Technology trenches ( computer work ) the whole time, save for 6 months. I know what another layer of federal bureaucracy will do. I could go thru the list of agencies that do a half-ass job now... IRS, INS, Homeland Security, and on and on....

This idea is BS. 'Nuf Sed.

Larry

Keith,...
 

Well,...if you want to put security and legitimacy on a financial
basis, I figure that even for Maine 185 million bucks are pretty-much
chump-change,...if compared to no doubt THE BILLION$ already
costing The State & USA for illegitimate or illegal foreign nationals already there.

The cost in Lack of Security from Maine & USA can't YET to be determined?

Neil

Neil....

Why are all the undocuneted aliens running around in the first place ? Duh. You think this BS "national ID" system will stop it. The answer is HELL NO.

Larry

M-Dude or Larry,.......
 

What: "Idea B.S."?
Are you objecting to a legitimate and tamper-proof National ID,
just like Dems, Kennedy or ACLU types?

Hey,...maybe since you no longer work at: "Agency", new things
might actually work well and better than before?
Hey again,...and besides this is wartime and we're under attack.
Understood? ;) ;)

Neil

Neil :

I just posted two very informative articles about failures by the IRS and the failure to enforce immigration laws from 4 years ago.

There is nothing "tamper proof". Every time the USA puts out new bills , they are counterfeited in short order.

No the IRS hasn't changed one bit.

I have little faith in the Federal Government to do anything right, from the War in Iraq, to the FDA, INS, IRS, and anything else.




Larry

Neil
 

There is also a lot of concern in the Ultra Conservative community about the Real ID act. They are concerned about too much big brother. I believe the liberals are concerned just to cause trouble. Some the of new legislation from the democrats is more restrictive and poses more big brother concerns than the Real ID act. If they had been in charge with a Demo president they would be backing this legislation. Both parties do this, complaining about something unless they are the one proposing it. Its called partisan politics, which is really divisive. I for one am upset with both parties always out there yelling wolf.

Keith

Somebody do the math: how many people live in Maine, yet they claim it will cost them BILLIONS to implement the new driver's license laws? What are those lobster heads making the ID cars out of, 24k gold? What are they charging for state-ID's now? Why is this going to be that much more? Sounds like somebody's trying to figure out how to have the state suck on the federal tit more and more.

"The ID act sets national standards for licenses which will have to include a digital photo, anti-counterfeiting features and machine-readable technology."

lets examine these standards
1. digital photo, cost almost nothing, The printer ink is all.
2. anti-counterfeiting features, A hologram on the card, just like most all license.
3. machine-readable technology. A bar code.
These things are not asking much of anyone and if they made a small difference in any kind of activity that required an ID, It should go forward.
Peoples reluctance to a National ID card has some ancient roots and mostly unfounded in this day and age. The idea that the government will know information about someone is long passed. The Government has all the information about every citizen, The information it doesn't have is on those that are in this country illegally.
You work the government has your address and SS number, You had to have a Birth certificate to get a SS number so the government has all your birth information and your parents,
You get a car and a drivers licens and the government has all your DL information, you get married and the government has all information on your spouse. You apply for a Credit card and your in the system again.
The government already has all the information on legal citizens it needs or wants, it's the others that need to have input in the system.

Ron

At a State population of around 1.4 million the figures given would come in at $132 per head in implementation costs and I assume that it is implementation costs are being presented. But then Hannah is preaching to the choir so substantiated estimates would be unnecessary and any old SWAG number will do for the purpose of promulgating the instruction set being beamed down from the mother ship. Apparently this in the same pot with New Mexico?s Gov. Richardson now trying to repeal border strengthening provisions and the measures being taken to go up against and eliminate prevailing anti vote fraud legislation.

I would like to look at the argument as to why there would be increased risk of identity theft. That particular assertion is not substantiated except by mother ship rhetoric and it is not established that identifying all legitimate residents puts legitimate residents at greater risk. That seems counter-intuitive and not particularly in harmony with mother ship assertions of allegedly being solid on National Security.

To amplify on Ron?s point, most of us here were put in the system when we took the oath and are known to the nth degree. Ha ha, when the VA trashed out 25 K identities, the IRS provided address information so that we could get the VA ?I?m sorry? letter. It would have been much more meaningful if it had been the Brenda Lee cut of the ?I?m sorry? song. Some of us have had security clearances, background checks for employment or project purposes, Interpol screenings, passports, credit cards, bank accounts, been on some property tax roll, drivers licenses, on and on it goes.

In all reality, some organizations in Mexico City probably already know more about us and how to bust into databases than we care to acknowledge or even think about. In terms of high quality, low cost USA identity mechanisms, Maine may wish to consult with Mexico City and, along the way, also get some tips from them on how to bust into their own State database more efficiently.

Scamp

Friends,...
 

Never been one to argue obviously failed policies that have
continually made matters worse for The American Citizenry and
America's Safety, Security & Sovereignty. Makes no sense to me.

Still, I'll never understand how so many Americans (political or not),
can continually argue in favor of exactly what hasn't ever worked
and/or the status-quo which will never work,...and especially
while under attack by and at war with Fanatical Islam worldwide?

Pretty-much giving the benefit of doubt as to the well intent of all
foreigners sneaking into America, rather than Our Leaders trying
to stop such and keep all of we most likely: "Soft Targets of Opportunity" ALIVE
also make no sense whatsoever,...and gets downright mind-boggling.

Such seems politically nationally-suicidal (every which way possible) to me.
Hope that quite asinine political-correctness (an oxymoron also)
and silly political climbers in general,...DON'T GET US ALL KILLED?

Neil