Crossbows
 

What I know about archery:

1. the feathers go to the rear.

2. the point goes to the front.

Someone tell me about crossbows. The medieval kind, not the modern kind.
Would they penetrate armor?
Could an armored soldier use one, i.e. did he have enough mobility in armor?

The projectiles were called...bolts?
What were bolts made of?


Airborne! Steve / 82Rigger

Yes, to both. A steel (or iron) tipped bolt could pentrate armour. Preparattion to fire the crossbow was the problem. Most crossbows required the shooter to put foot in a loop at the top of the bow. Usually a hand crank pulled the string into the locking position. Shooter places the bolt in the groove, aim, and fire.

A bolt was a wooden shaft with or without an iron or steel tip. Good bolts had feathers (fins). Average bolts were just long pieces of wood. Mail Call (with Gunny Ermi) did a spot on crossbows.

82Rigger
 

<LABEL id=HbSession SessionId="2117503645">For a good look at medieval crossbows and armor and such, go to http://198.144.2.125/Crossbows/crossbows.htm.</LABEL>

Also...
 

<LABEL id=HbSession SessionId="1620494824">In 1139, the Second Lateran Council forbade the use of crossbows by Christians against Christians mainly because it was so lethal and could penetrate chain mail armor. However, its use was encouraged against "infidels" (read: muslims).</LABEL>

Steve
 

The International History Channel, if you get that one did an excellent program on weapons of the middle ages. They spent a while on cross bows and long bows, wish I had taped it. If you get that station, watch for that program.

Also, remember the TV program called Tool Time with Tim Allen as the star? He had an assistant who's TV name was Al Borland, heavy set with a beard, can't think of his real name. On the History Channel, or maybe that one is also on the International History Channel he does a series called Foot Soldiers. The one he does on the middle ages covers the cross bow and shows how the two types operated. Pretty interesting with a little humor thrown in

Stay healthy,
Andy

My Older Brother had a crossbow.
 

My older brother designed and made a crossbow out of leaf springs he picked up from a wrecking yard. Wow that thing was powerful. At 25 yards those arrows would go right through an inch board. I believe he had over 300 pounds of pull, it would take two folks to load the bow.

Andy, I watched the same program,. They said that the cross bow really change the way battles were fought because their arrows could pierce any armour of the day. After the expience with my brothers cross bow I have no doubt that the cross bow is a leathal weapon. It was the forerunner to the modern firearm.
They could get up to 400 lbs of pull and some need little pulleys and cranks to get the bow string back. Down side to the cross bow, very slow in reloading.

In many states it was banned as a hunting weapon because it was so easy to use in poaching. (No Sound!)

Keith

P.S. My brother went on to get his Masters in Industrial Art.

Keith
 

Sit down, don't want you to fall down from shock. Crossbows are illegal in this state. However, I have shot them (in N.H.) and they are a whole lot of fun. The one I used had a hand crank on both sides and only took about 20 seconds to lock in place. Not sure how many pounds of pressure it was but it went through a bale of hay like crap through a goose. The only bad thing was a very poor aiming device.

Stay healthy,
Andy

Andy
 

The one my brother made back in 57 or 58 was pretty crude. We didn't have a cranking devise. That would have come in handly. Yep, those things were pretty powerful. "I wonder if they are lethal? :D

Certainly could see how they could change the methods of combat. The long bows were more accurate. However they usually didn't exceed about 40 lbs of pull. Enough power to bring down a man or deer at 50 yds or less but not strong enough to puncture armour.

Keith

Keith, Andy, et al...
 

I've been perusing some of the sporting goods sights on the web that market modern crossbows.

Modern crossbows have all sorts of neat improvements..silencers that attach to the string to silence the "twang" when you shoot, adjustable sights, even telescopic sights.

All of which makes me wonder...

How effective would such a crossbow be in a modern urban or suburban conflict? I'm thinking in terms of a sniping scenario, hit and run, etc.
At night, there would be no sound, no flash.
Since they can be fitted with scopes, they can also be fitted with night vision scopes.

Also, ballistic vests are made of Kevlar. Kevlar is a fiber. It stops bullets, but cant it be CUT and SLICED? Can it be pierced with a sharp point or penetrated by the slicing action of a slow-moving razor sharp broadhead?

What do ya'll think?

Airborne! Steve / 82Rigger

ChaRang Valley VN, 1968. More tower guards were killed by arrows than bullets. Whoever fired those arrows were never heard and were not detected. It was only when the guard was to be relieved that it was discovered that he was dead.
We sold crossbows in the PX in QuiNhon in early '68.
You know. The PX that was walking distance, just accross the street from the Red Beach R and R center on the South China Sea. ChaRang was nine miles away from Red Beach.

When I lived in Seattle I used a small hand drawn cross bow for home protection. I didn't need a permit to use/own it so it worked great for little ol'me. It had a 30 lb draw and all I needed was a small hand hook to pull the string back. I set up a refrigerator box in my apartment, we're talking the thick heavy cardboard. I put a practice bolt through the box and stuck into the cinderblock wall.

After that I felt confident that this baby would protect me...no worries. And since it is a one time shoot per pull the chances that I would be killed with my own weapon were negligible.

Now the majority of my money goes to purchasing medieval weapons. I never worry that I will run out of ammo.

And you guys thought I was just another pretty face. Hehehhe
:nn:
DL

Steve
 

A cross bow wouldn?t be bad however I?ve seen an arrangement that is totally awesome. It?s a bolt action .22, Rugar I think. It?s mostly plastic, very light. The one I saw has a silencer on it that really works, a Russian version of a starlight. Also has an IR red dot scope that you can place on a target at about 150 feet (in the dark or at least dusk). Fire subsonic ammo and there is virtually no noise. At 100 feet your center mass might be (for example) a person?s left ear. Ear and temple shots are very effective.

Keith: Actually I think the long bow men of the middle ages had a weapon more powerful that you suggest. Check out some of the battles fought by the English kings Edward III or Henry V. They seem to have killed an awful lot of French Knights with Long bows.

Stick: A good friend who I'm still in touch with SSgt Duffy got wounded in the 25th Division. Once out of the hospital he was re-assigned to be an advisor in IV Corps. He says that his RTO a Ruff & Puff was killed by an arrow while taking a leak on the wire one night in a full moon. So much for high teck.

Stay healthy,
Andy

Argh. Yer killin me. There was a place people were calling "Fort Apache" on account of the quantity of crossbow bolts found after any firefight. That was in late '69. I think it was in the Que Son Valley, but my memory might be be playing tricks on me.

What's the difference between a bolt and a quarrell anyway?

The long bow had a far greater range and hitting power than a crossbow. A medieval long bowman would fire 6 aimed shafts a minute. The English bowman would cut down the cross bowmen before they even managed to get in to range for their cross bows.
There was a wide range of tips for the arrows of a long bow from a short twisted head to cut through mail and armour plate to a huge curved blade head to cut the horses to pieces. At one time all English men had to practice with bow so many hours each week and had show their skills after church on a Sunday in the Butts. The English bowmen where so feared that the French would cut of the first two fingers on an Englishmen hand to stop them from using a long bow. This why even today you will see British people sticking two fingers up at the oppopsition. The Archers used to do this to French to taunt them as much to say if want them come and get them.

speaking of crossbows...
 

http://www.visi.com/~bluff//crossbow/gallery.htm

Check out the story on this site!

Hi folks. I realize this is an old thread, but I just got on the site thanks to Dave. I'd like to interject something about long bows v. crossbows. While I am an avid fan of said long bow, and what Tab said is generally true there came a time when it wasn't. The English War Bow had a draw ca. 150 pounds and ranged to about 300 some yards. Yes there were some indiviual archers who had heavier bows and could hit targets at greater range, but 300 was about the limit. And they did decimate crossbowmen and others with their rain of arrows. Imagine if you would 1000 archers getting four arrows in the air before the first strikes the ground, and if your shooting at an area target (massed troops v individuals) all you need to do is really get the range. As time progressed however to about the late 14c - early 15c the crossbow was made heavier, in part to get range to take on the archers, as well as penetrate the ever increasing heavier armor of knights and men-at-arms. These weapons had ranges in excess of 400 yards. A crossbowman could be trained in weeks, while it took years of practice,as has been pointed out, to get a longbow archer trained.

There was an even more poweful bow than the long bow however. The compound bow used by the Mongols, Huns and Turks, as well as other middle eastern and far eastern armies, were capable of ranges reported to be in excess of 500 yards with a bow smaller in size than the longbow and capable of being fired from the back of a horse.

But all in all, I still prefer the longbow. It's rate of fire, compared to the crossbow I feel made it the better overall weapon, and the person's using them in war were by far the superior soldiers. It wasn't until the advent of the firearms that the longbow was put aside, but even after that it still was kept alive as traditions were hard to just give up.

my two cents of ramble,

Fred
aka graebarde