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tpad 04-28-2003 09:49 AM

Marines in S.A.W. or Philippine insurrection
I am trying to put together a Marine corps uniform for the SAW or Phillippine insurrection time period.I know all about the blues but am looking for any info or pictures of the fatigue uniform.I found a few pictures which weren't much help,I know the fatigues were very similar to the roughriders uniforms with Marine Corps distinctions.
Any help would be muchly appreciated.
Thank you for looking,

Beau 07-23-2003 02:19 PM

I think they no longer refer to it as an "insurrection." luck on the uniform thing.

Andy 07-24-2003 05:04 PM

You, "Think it is no longer refered to as an insurrection." That was cute. I like the way you put it.
Hope Tpad has another question or two for you.

Stay healthy,

Beau 07-24-2003 05:57 PM

Re: Beau

Originally posted by Andy You, "Think it is no longer refered to as an insurrection." That was cute. I like the way you put it.
Hope Tpad has another question or two for you.

Stay healthy,
Andy --- what are you getting at. I am trying to understand what you mean and am getting nowhere.

As to questions on that War --- he should go to Jim Zwicks web pages. I only occassionally learn things about the Philipine-American War and that is more than many others do. I think the Phillipine-American War should be a subject all it's own. I find the once longstanding labeling of that war as an "Insurrection" is a repulsive and disgusting vulgarity on the American ideals of Freedom. And the anti-mescegination laws that existed up until about 1946 --- another Operation in obscenity: I do not want to hear about some correspondingly stupid European against European come back: right now, and in this post, it is about the chasing and fanging and abusing of Filipinos by Americans. And right now, and in this post ---- I feel the abuse from way back, and far deeper than any of you guys can. And toss in my Mexican side.

But what do I know, I only lived occassionally at the Flip Asparagus Camps and watched Stockton cops muscle a little Flip and heard them call him a "Monkey" --- what do I know, except every time I look at Meg I can see a bit of the Filipina side in her surface and ponder her possible spiritual resonance with Islanders from the ages, all embedded in blood and art. What do I know, little Refried-Flip me --- had I been stronger, I could'a stood on the bow of my riverboat and pissed on the coast of my fathers birthplace. But now, or lately --- for that coast and archipelgo, and for those immigrants --- I have a growing fondness for: their features; endurance; food; characters "half beast half child"; their genius at basic survival; and my sex with Carrie C. (pure Filipina) .

You want something scholarly Tpad, or get info on Marine Corps uniforms of the day --- go to Jim Zwick's website. I wore a uniform not far from those Islands --- nothing so fancy as your gyrenes: just brown skin, superficially layered over with a sleeveless Olive Drab shirt.

Andy 07-24-2003 07:52 PM


The U.S. fought a quick and pretty clean war with Spain 100+ years ago and ended up with, among other places, the Philippians. The people who lived there wanted their independence. The freedom loving U.S. responded by doing their level best to exterminate the population. That is history, the term ?insurrection? is sort of a sick joke. People fought to be free and got dead, a lot.

I?m not sure where the attitude came from or why. I just wanted you to school this person on what the U.S. did and why we aren?t loved everywhere. Sorry you took offensive to my comment. Case closed.

Stay healthy,

Beau 07-24-2003 08:33 PM

Nah... not "testy"
I did want a clear explanation to your short answer which I think should've included, something like "Beau, how are you ... long time no see .... how is your daughter Meg."

I am getting "testy" by the vacumm of knowledge that seems to be longstanding, about those wars --- ooops, "operations" in which American hegemony of the past, and perhaps developing, are dang near wiped out.

I am getting "testy" of hearing blacks make special claim upon violations of their human freedoms, when all over American history --- us others have been slaughtered and difiled by actions, or inactions. But I think, that more goes to those who have rioted the most.

I am getting flushed with delight, in knowing that 39mto39r, who did make upfront his views that a better way was to re-Africanize the blacks ... back, and a minor little comment about the border crossers --- could tee tee his pants in anger that something he said, did not have a flag raised, or a beer cheer chorus.

And I am sick of Corporate culture bullshit. I am sick and tired of showing up at work, year after day after day and putting up with cubicle talk and bullshit chatter --- and no one gets to really know one another. I am sick of corporate takeover of all mass media, it seems --- to wit the equivalent of Playmates of the Month reporting on war.

And by the way --- I really feel the Philipine-American War should be a subject --- at the level of value of the Spanish-American War.

I am getting a tatoo --- and I may start Quail Hunting again ... I don't know: maybe I'll get into a Martial Arts club just to let off some aggression.

Well, anneehoooo ---- how the hell are you and your family, Andy ? There, I did it first.


Beau 07-24-2003 08:49 PM

eff the Spanish American war
In his book Don't Know Much About History, Kenneth C. Davis writes:

Hollywood has left the impression that the great Indian wars came in the Old West during the late 1800's, a period that many think of simplistically as the "cowboy and Indian" days. But in fact that was a "mopping up" effort. By that time the Indians were nearly finished, their subjugation complete, their numbers decimated. The killing, enslavement, and land theft had begun with the arrival of the Europeans. But it may have reached its nadir when it became federal policy under President (Andrew) Jackson.
The Cherokees in 1828 were not nomadic savages. In fact, they had assimilated many European-style customs, including the wearing of gowns by Cherokee women. They built roads, schools and churches, had a system of representational government, and were farmers and cattle ranchers. A Cherokee alphabet, the "Talking Leaves" was perfected by Sequoyah.

"I would sooner be honestly damned than hypocritically immortalized"
Davy Crockett
His political career destroyed because he supported the Cherokee, he left Washington D. C. and headed west to Texas.
In 1830 the Congress of the United States passed the "Indian Removal Act." Although many Americans were against the act, most notably Tennessee Congressman Davy Crockett, it passed anyway. President Jackson quickly signed the bill into law. The Cherokees attempted to fight removal legally by challenging the removal laws in the Supreme Court and by establishing an independent Cherokee Nation. At first the court seemed to rule against the Indians. In Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, the Court refused to hear a case extending Georgia's laws on the Cherokee because they did not represent a sovereign nation. In 1832, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of the Cherokee on the same issue in Worcester v. Georgia. In this case Chief Justice John Marshall ruled that the Cherokee Nation was sovereign, making the removal laws invalid. The Cherokee would have to agree to removal in a treaty. The treaty then would have to be ratified by the Senate.

By 1835 the Cherokee were divided and despondent. Most supported Principal Chief John Ross, who fought the encroachment of whites starting with the 1832 land lottery. However, a minority(less than 500 out of 17,000 Cherokee in North Georgia) followed Major Ridge, his son John, and Elias Boudinot, who advocated removal. The Treaty of New Echota, signed by Ridge and members of the Treaty Party in 1835, gave Jackson the legal document he needed to remove the First Americans. Ratification of the treaty by the United States Senate sealed the fate of the Cherokee. Among the few who spoke out against the ratification were Daniel Webster and Henry Clay, but it passed by a single vote. In 1838 the United States began the removal to Oklahoma, fulfilling a promise the government made to Georgia in 1802. Ordered to move on the Cherokee, General John Wool resigned his command in protest, delaying the action. His replacement, General Winfield Scott, arrived at New Echota on May 17, 1838 with 7000 men. Early that summer General Scott and the United States Army began the invasion of the Cherokee Nation.

Painting by Robert Lindneux
Woolaroc Museum
In one of the saddest episodes of our brief history, men, women, and children were taken from their land, herded into makeshift forts with minimal facilities and food, then forced to march a thousand miles(Some made part of the trip by boat in equally horrible conditions). Under the generally indifferent army commanders, human losses for the first groups of Cherokee removed were extremely high. John Ross made an urgent appeal to Scott, requesting that the general let his people lead the tribe west. General Scott agreed. Ross organized the Cherokee into smaller groups and let them move separately through the wilderness so they could forage for food. Although the parties under Ross left in early fall and arrived in Oklahoma during the brutal winter of 1838-39, he significantly reduced the loss of life among his people. About 4000 Cherokee died as a result of the removal. The route they traversed and the journey itself became known as "The Trail of Tears" or, as a direct translation from Cherokee, "The Trail Where They Cried" ("Nunna daul Tsuny").

Beau 07-24-2003 09:01 PM

now there is a politically correct name --- problem is, people who are more European Spanish, than Mestizo (Spanish mixed blood --- Indian, black, or Filipino --- as in, forced import labor) --- the more pure Europeans get mixed in with those that are truely "at risk"

If you were a new world Spaniard who was born in Spain --- you had more privelidges than the pure Spaniard who was born in the new world. And, you had the Encomienda system --- forced labor --- of the Indians of course.

To me, the more pure European "Hispanics" should not include themselves in the at risk population of "Hispanics" who are the outcasts, the poor, the mixed blood Indian-Spanish-Filipino-African, that make up the Mestizo that cross our borders to the McJob work that Americans don't want to do.

Jerry D 07-24-2003 10:16 PM

Hey Beau, thats some good research you did :ae: I also agree with you . Andy Jackson was one of the biggest hypocrite's of the 1800's The Cherokee helped him win the war with the Creek indians who were supported by Spain .Then to reward them he gave their land to some people in N.Georgia ,who helped get him elected President. Like Davey said "I would sooner be honestly damned than hypocritically immortalized" Thats' in reference he told his olde friend (Andy Jackson) who abused his friendship to Davey. BTW did you hear what a Black Democrat in Okla is sueing the State of Okla for now ? He is complaining that the Cherokee Brave Confederate flag is flying on the Statehouse grounds . He goes on to say that he won't stand for a racist flag like that to remain flying on OKla State property . Isn't that a hoot him calling Cherokee Confederate Soldiers racist.When the only reason Okla is a state is that the Cherokee people lost their land after the War between the States ended and Washington needed more land to give away And the 5 tribes that made up what is now Okla fought for the CSA so they had there homes and land stolen again . Also if their Land had not been taken away after the end of the War between the States the state now known as Okla would have been named after Sequoyah insted he just has his name immortalized on an ancient pine tree in Calif called the Sequoia Redwood Pine and to this day giant Sequoia redwood trees in California soar to the sky in his memory.Hope you all are doing well and the summer heat isn't as bad for you as it is here in SE Georgia :) BTW did you know until 1980 it was illegal for a person of Cherokee decent to come to Georgia with out written permission? that old law was finally removed in 1980. Till later ....

tpad 07-24-2003 10:44 PM

WoW!I am not hear to dispute history with anyone.I was just looking for pictures of Marine Corp uniforms of the time period.If you want to start an argument over this please start your own thread.I am only seeking uniform knowledge.The name for the phillipine war is what came from history books.You want to rename them take it up with your senator or someone with similar interest.I mean no offense but ..come on this argument is far from what I was looking for.

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