I'm writing a book...
 

It's about patrolling the East German border. I've got some pictures that I've taken in the eighties (some are in the gallery here), but I'm thin on stories. I put a couple of mine in along with some background on the mission, so I need stories from you guys. And some input.

I patrolled in the Hof Sector and the Coburg sector-any other stories would be great, even from GSR guys or aviation guys. I just think, although it cost few American lives, it's a part of our military history that shouldn't die with us.

Hi Jonn,
Try to connect with Reconeil. I think he did a lot of that.

I've put a .pdf file on the first page of my website ( http://www.jonnlilyea.net ) that's a copy of a rough draft of a small portion of the book. Any suggestions? Additions? I have the memories of a couple more vets in another rough draft, but I need more.

John -
An ignorant person asks:
- what was the policy along that border if one of you should have encountered someone trying to come over to the other side?
- how long, in miles or something, was the border you folks had to guard?

Well, Blue, our mission was largely one of observance. If we saw someone trying to go either way, we'd have to notify the Grenzeshutzgruppen (GSG or German Federal Border Troops) Bavarian Border Police (BPs were the State Police).

The Border stretched from Austria to the North Sea (I don't know how many miles). The Northern part was patrolled by the British and the Southern by the US and it was divided further into unit reponsibilites. the portions I patrolled was the Hof Sector and the Coburg Sector - named for the towns were the border camps were located.

John -
Thanks for replying, I know zilch about what you all had to go through there.

So, if someone was to try and come over either way, your first duty was to notify someone else.

- What would those other folks (GSG & BP) do then? I mean, were they right there all along that border and able to respond immediately or something?

- WERE there actually people trying to go the other way? Nobody I know of has ever said so in public to us!

- Were you guys stretched out ALL the way from Austria to the North Sea? I mean, this is kinda amazing to contemplate... that is a whole lot of miles and weird terrain!

- What was the interval between guards?

- Did you have ammo for your weapons?

- What were your "rules of engagement", i.e. when would you have to shoot?

- Is there nobody from our military on those borders anymore?

- What would those other folks (GSG & BP) do then? I mean, were they right there all along that border and able to respond immediately or something?

They had roving patrols like we did. You could usually find them at the nearest bakery.

- WERE there actually people trying to go the other way? Nobody I know of has ever said so in public to us!

I never heard of any, but there were rumors that our Ground Surveillance radar guy could "see" spies crossing at night and being picked up on the other side. Nothing I'd report as a fact, though, having not witnessed it at all.

- Were you guys stretched out ALL the way from Austria to the North Sea? I mean, this is kinda amazing to contemplate... that is a whole lot of miles and weird terrain!

We weren't "stretched" actually. We had sectors within sectors that we'd patrol everyday at random (determined by USAEUR).

- What was the interval between guards?

- Did you have ammo for your weapons?

Our ammo was locked up in the vehicles in an ammo box.

- What were your "rules of engagement", i.e. when would you have to shoot?

We could only shoot if we were being shot at. We couldn't shoot to protect escaping East germans, though-only if West Germans were in danger or ourselves.

- Is there nobody from our military on those borders anymore?

There is no border between East and West Germany since the wall came down.

Congratulations!
 

I've written a bunch of articles, and professional study papers. Not anything over 60 - 70 pages. I'm proud of you for your endeavor. Keep at it! Its a long haul but the satisfaction of completion is well worth it.

Keith

Jonn...
 

Regarding your question about ammo,...all our vehicles (first in 10th Recon Co and later in 3rd Recon Sqdn/7th Cav) always carried their basic loads, ready for bear (Russian or whatever) or just plain old war. Latched and secured properly for sure,...but never locked.

I'll use a Scout Section consisting of 2 squads (2 jeeps each) for a breakdown of ammo available to us at a moments notice.

The Squad Leader's and/or Radio/Machinegun Jeep normally had a radio mounted on one side and a box containing 6 cannisters of 30 Cal. ammo on the other side. A Case of 30 Cal. Carbine Ammo was stored on the floor. In my jeep, and since also The Grenadier, some Rifle Grenades were also available.

The secondary and/or solely Machinegun Jeep had 2 boxes mounted. One box on each side, and holding 12 cannisters of 30 Cal. Ammo. Also, a case of 30 Cal. M1 Clips was stored on the floor.

Granted, such might not sound like much firepower coming from only 6 people, and certainly nothing compared to what our APC's, many 50's,100 mil. Mortars and M-41 Tanks could turn-out. Still, and since having a good 50/50 mix of Experts and Sharpshooters (Marksman Qualification not acceptable from day-one in Recon - with machineguns inclusive), I believe that if the-sh!t-hit-the-fan,...WE would have made a good accounting of ourselves.

Hell, I believe to this very day that if attacked by Gengis Khan and his Mongol Hoards,...WE would have kicked-ass and taken-names (BIG TIME). I guess it's that old story? If you honestly believe you're The Best of The Best,...you actually are (or were).

Once thoroughly brainwashed into invincibility aside, GarryOwen, Gung-Ho, "Don't shoot 'till you see the whites of their eyes" or whatever, Friends.

Neil :cl:

John -
Took me awhile to find this thread again, I'll subscribe to it now.

Question for you:
I'm reading Clancy's novel RED STORM RISING, with which you may be familiar given the service you did and book you're writing. Many people regard that author with some respect because he is said to do very thorough research.

On page 158, the following words were written, "A unit of the elite GSG-9 German border guard had the safe house under continuous surveillance, with a second English ambush team between them and their supposed target in Lammersdorf. Intelligence officers from most of the NATO countries were part of the surveillance team, each with a direct line to his government."

> Have you ever encountered or heard of the, "...elite GSG-9 German border guard"? I mean did it exist, in real life. No need to say anything, but if you could tell why they were "elite" would be nice. In other words, how would that unit have been different from others, including our own?