MC CARTHYISM v HOMELANDS SECURITY?
 

Once upon a time, 1909 to 1957, there lived a man name Joseph McCarthy. Old Joe McCarthy (aka: Tail gunner Joe) could smell a Red Herring under virtually every rock, and even in places where they did not exist!

Granted, we had no shortage of Commies running around, like the Nazis had done a short time before, fermenting all kinds of odious bull shit. But dear old Joe was quite a bit more zealous than most and to him the only color that he could perceive was ?RED!? As such, many a true American was branded in scarlet without so much as a trial, a word in defense, or a howdy-do!

They say that strange times breed stranger solutions!? And with Cold War fear gripping the nation by the balls, ?McCarthy Was Not The Only Witch-Chaser In Salem!? Hell, even staunch Americans came under scrutiny and fire, and some who should have been under scrutiny themselves, were all but canonized and gifted with a blank check to develop ingenious new ways of fighting the Red Menace, and even a red herring or two!

One of the most tragic incidents to come out of the Cold War was rampant experimentation with every element, agent and germ that had plagued mankind for centuries. ?If it could kill, alter or destroy the mind, or leave one susceptible to suggestions or orders", it was employed by both sides, courtesy at first, of our friends the Swiss. ?And all of this time you thought that only watches, chocolate and drunks poured forth from Switzerland?!

I recently read that the biggest reason for the success of McCarthyism was paranoia and mass confusion about Korea, China and mounting world problems, not to mention of course - ?Boris Bad-Ass?, the mad Russian malcontent!!

During this period of the Cold War, outside of our own people experimenting on unwitting service personnel, hospital patients, prisoners, and even Johns out on the make, people too, soon became guilty by association. Hell, even the name (or so I read?) of the ?Cincinnati Reds? was changed to the Red Legs!? ?WOW!?

Also, accusation alone was often accepted as proof of guilt, and worse of all, there was absolutely no defense against slander, even government orchestrated! One?s only protection against the witch-hunters was to conform and remain silent!

Now I don?t know about you, but this Homeland Security (in my opinion) has the potential (be it ever so slight) to mutate into a similar monster, if not kept under tight controls, not only by government, but by the people themselves!?

I know, I know, there is nothing to worry about, everything is indeed under control, and this agency (HLS), was created to hamstring only the bad-guys before they can get a strangle hold and cause us more dirt! But as I recall, the income tax too was but temporary, as is the premise of martial law. ?Unfortunately, however, sometimes, someone in power forgets to inform the big boys of this fact!??

Ah, but I almost forgot, that is what elections are all about! And if you do not like or agree with an agenda and it?s authors we can vote them out (I think), whereas, if we like and accept the status quo, we gift them with another round of wine and roses, American Style!

?And that my friends, is what democracy is all about!!? :D :j: :m:

VERITAS

HC do you remember what they said back then (BETTER DEAD THAN RED) boy that was a long time ago.

razz

BLUES CLUES -

"Boy, ain't it the truth!" :r:

VERITAS

The McCarthy era...
 

...brought back memories of the good ol' days of the Salem witch trials. All you had to do was point a finger and someone got hung. What Tail Gunner Joe and his cronies called "due process" was nothing more than a kangaroo court. He didn't have to prove you were guilty, you had to prove you were innocent! In the end he finally admitted that the whole thing was just a presidential bid that got way out of control. God save us from zealots and shams.

revwardoc

"JUST A PRESIDENTIAL BID THAT GOT WAY OUT OF CONTROL?"

Now why does that have a familiar ring about it!?

(opinion) :j: :j:

VERITAS

Prove it
 

"In the end he finally admitted that the whole thing was just a presidential bid that got way out of control." Is this part of the historical revisionism that is polluting our airwaves? To claim that McCarthy ws trying to identify communists in extremely high governmental positions, and to warn the country about their danger simply as a means of furthering his political ambitions is pure horseshit. Go back and read about the Venona Project, which identified communist agents and sympathizers, like Henry Wallace, a confident of FDR, who was actually a commie agent. (BTW: McCarthy identified him as an agent too!) Go back and read "Sacred Secrets" and then you'll have a better appreciation of the dangers that McCarthy was trying to warn us of. And then don't forget that it was the communists who killed millions of their own people, built the Berlin Wall, the Iron Curtain, the Bamboo Curtain, all to keep people out of the Workers' Paradise, brought us the volumns of success stories about Vietnam post-1975, and caused several hundred thousands more death of more people fleeing the wonders of socialism and communism.

SUPERSCOUT et al-

Again, the discussion was about Joe McCarthy's zealousness while engaged (in my opinion), in an otherwise worthy crusade - the destruction of Communism here in the United States!!

No one that I heard herein, championed socialism, communism, or any other perverted system of government - quite to the contrary in fact!! "Most on this site are patriotic and dedicated!!"

Unfortunately, the end "Does Not" always justify the means, and one does not throw the baby away with the bathwater!!

Joe McCarthy, in my opinion, had the right idea, but he went (on occasions) a bridge too far! When one fires a shotgun in a crowded room, even if a few within that room are ass-holes (or Commies in this case), he is bound to injure or destroy some of the good, patriotic people as well as the bad apples, do you not agree?!

"Communism was (and still is) a plague upon the world, and one would be hard-pressed to find anyone upon this site who thinks otherwise!"

I personally will always remember Senator Joseph McCarthy as a man who hated Communism to the max, and who strove to cut off it's poisonous tentacles. But it must be remembered that he also destroyed some good and innocent people in the process as well!

Outside of his forays into the entertainment industry, Joe also alleged Communist influence and infiltration into government, education, the defense industries and other fields! Was he (at least partially) right in the way that he proceeded - only time and history will tell for sure? (opinion)

And just out of curiosity, were all those burned at Salem, Massachusetts, and surrounding communities, really witches, or were even a few merely the victims of a different brand of Cold War Paranoia!?

Was (and is) Communism a grievous threat to our way of life - HELL YEAH!

Did something have to be done about it, and fast - HELL YEAH IT DID!

Was Joe McCarthy genuinely concerned about the threats and dangers posed by Communism - Again, HELL YEAH!

Can the persecution, slander, experimentation upon, or the destruction of even one innocent individual be tolerated or excused away here in America - "HELL NO - IT CAN'T!!"

No real American is ever expendable, nor can their pain be excused away under plausible denial, political expediency, or under the excuse that - it was just a sign of the times! (Another opinion) :r: :t: :x:

VERITAS

HC -
Dunno if HLS, via the Patriot Act, will mutate into a similar monster, but do know that it will be extremely difficult to moderate or remove, should the day come when it needs to be, and am very unsure if even the most active well-informed electorate would be able to put it aside. In a Republic, the elected do as they please while in office, which pleasure may or may not bear any resemblance to the wishes of their constituency.

Naturally, one is entitled to be suspect of HLS effectiveness down the road, since FBI and CIA remain independent of it and of one another. Also, human nature being what it is, there will always be someone who prefers to kill flies with nuclear bombs.

Mike -
 

I can add nothing to that!! :r:

VERITAS

HC -
Dunno 'bout you, but I have found myself being somewhat relieved that a HLS was created, in the abstract it was long overdue, seemingly.

But the exclusion of FBI and CIA, AND the creation of this new HLS group (whose acronym I cannot remember at this moment) to "oversee and coordinate" incoming intel sounds to me like just another redundant bureaucracy, which is more likely to lead to negligence than to effectiveness.

I can even go so far as to understand why CERTAIN provisions of the Patriot Act were necessitated by worldwide terrorism and 9/11. However, when administrations change (hence the staff at Justice) it is a four-eight year reinvention of the wheel, and entropy or sloth mitigates against changing things that are outdated or excessive, as we know.

Making things far more complicated is that it is now the stated policy of our government that this war on terrorism is both global and open-ended... which in my experience with government is like writing a blank check, financially and morally.