[eriksale]

I originally posted this in another thread on this subject but believe it is more appropriate here.

Of note on a couple of misconceptions in this thread

A: They were not "advisor's" they were probably the first "combatants" in Vietnam
B: Col Ky was the commander. They did according to my dad have a ranking American, but he reported to Col Ky as they were actually assigned to the VNAF.

Dave Son of
I too am the son of a Dirty Thirty pilot. My dad Maj Carl R. Erickson USAF retired is now 82.
Let me tell you what I know and have found out primarily through my dad and some "googled" info.
My dad was in the first 30, April of 62. I always thought that he was there as an adviser but from new discussions and other info it appears they were temporarily assigned by (MAAG) military assistance group to bring the VNAF 1st transportion group to full strength under the command of Nguyen Cao Ky. Yes Col. Ky was the commander.

So from what I have found they were actually "on loan" from the USAF to the VNAF. Which means they were not adviser's at all the were probably the first "combatants" of the Vietnam war.

I do remember visiting th AF musem in 68 when we were stationed at Chanute AFB and the had a small display of the Dirty Thirty.

Here is the info I found and my dad confirms.
"The Dirty Thirty
South Vietnamese Air Force DC-3 being flown by USAF "Dirty Thirty" pilots - 1962
South Vietnamese Air Force DC-3 being flown by USAF "Dirty Thirty" pilots - 1962

Additional USAF personnel arrived at Tan Son Nhut in early 1962 after the VNAF transferred two dozen seasoned pilots from the 1st Transportation Group at Tan Son Nhut to provide aircrews for the newly activated 2nd Fighter Squadron then undergoing training at Bien Hoa Air Base. This sudden loss of qualified C-47 pilots brought the 1st Transportation Group's airlift capability dangerously low.

In order to alleviate the problem, United States Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, on the recommendation of the Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) Vietnam, ordered thirty USAF pilots temporarily assigned to the VNAF to serve as C-47 co-pilots. This influx of U.S. personnel quickly returned the 1st TG to full strength.

The Americans arrived at Tan Son Nhut during March and April 1962 and immediately began flying with Vietnamese crews. Unfortunately, problems arose between the Americans and Vietnamese and by August the situation had so deteriorated that the 1st Transportation Group commander. Nguyen Cao Ky urgently appealed for closer cooperation and understanding between the two groups. The situation seemed to gradually improve and although there were still problems, the two groups developed a closer working relationship.

Unlike the USAF Farm Gate personnel at Bien Hoa Air Base, the C-47 co-pilots actually became part of the VNAF operational structure - though still under U.S. control. Because of their rather unusual situation, these pilots soon adopted the very unofficial nickname, The Dirty Thirty.

In a sense they were the first U.S. airmen actually committed to combat in Vietnam, rather than being assigned as advisors or support personnel.

The USAF 315th Troop Carrier Group (Combat Cargo) and 8th Aerial Port Squadron were activated on 8 December 1962, replacing the provisional transport units. The 315th Group had a strength of twenty-seven officers and twenty-one airmen, all of whom were on permanent assignment to Tan Son Nhut.

Although the 315th Group was an element of the 315th Air Division, the group's responsibilities included developing tactics and techniques and providing technical advice on airlift matters. Operational command of the group rested with the Commander, MACV, who in theory exercised control through his Air Force component command, the 2d Air Division.

The original Dirty Thirty pilots eventually rotated home during early 1963 and were replaced by a second contingent of American pilots. This detachment remained with the VNAF until December 1963 when they were withdrawn from Vietnam. "

regards
Dave