Iraqi casualties - report

[BLUEHAWK]

Associated Press
August 10, 2003
Niko Price: reporter

- No complete count yet from current crime wave
- Iraq Health Ministry reporting 1,764 civilian deaths from partial hospital records
- Associated Press body count from 50% of Iraq hospitals reported 3,240 between March 20 - April 20th
- Unknown number of civilian family burials not brought to hospitals
- Unknown number of deaths left under rubble and never counted
- Count of civilian wounded expected in coming weeks from all hospitals
- Unknown number of casualties since April 20th

[catman]

How many civilians were killed in the years before our invasion?

Trav

[MORTARDUDE]

how many Kurds were slaughtered and gassed ( WMD ) ?

how many Shiites were slaughtered in the aftermath of Gulf War 1 ?

[BLUEHAWK]

Catman and Larry -
I don't know the answers to those questions. Does anyone? I still haven't figured out the enemy casualty count from Desert Storm, nor from all the no-fly zone air combat that took place in the past 12 years either.

Taken altogether, them and us (so to speak) is what I am thinking about.

I'm not making any special points about "the poor Iraqis" or something of that kind... my interest is in the TOTAL costs of war in lives.

What the post is about was simply an AP report, the first I myself have yet seen on casualties amongst the liberated people of a foreign nation. I do believe we should all be mindful, and respectful, even in war.

Between Saddam's regime and our own, there has been a lot of death in Iraq for a long long time.

[catman]

Bluehawk...not sure of your past service or if you have ever been in a combat zone but one of the many ways that our tilted press works is this....A guy jumps up and sprays a few rounds at our guys, our guys return fire and kill the little bastard. One of his buddies grabs the weapon and runs. Ten minutes later the press shows up and starts taking pictures of the poor "civilian" who was gunned down by our troops. And from there the total keeps growing.

Trav

[BLUEHAWK]

Heavens no, that is not what I myself am thinking about at all... I am just interested in the give and take is all. I fully realize what you are talking about, in every possible sense. I'm not making apologies or crying crocodile tears over enemy casualties, I'm interested in counting and understanding the cost of war in lives... not that it makes much difference in the abstract after all is said and done. I am not making excuses for people, anywhere, who do their best to murder american troops... in fact I feel sorry for their stupidity. Genuine civilian casualties is a whole other topic.

I served in the Air Force, as a recip engines aircraft mechanic, on 123s. I know zip about weapons and field maneuvers and firefights other than what I try to learn from you guys. When I joined airmen at Lackland were still being trained on the M-1 carbine... fired it exactly one time, a clip of ten rounds, on the range, and never saw a shoulder arm nor a sidearm thereafter except on the APs. It wasn't my choice, I volunteered, and they volunteered me, SOP.

I did what I was asked to do, as well as I could. We tried very hard to make life better for you guys in armed ground combat... sometimes we succeeded.

The Press ticks me off too, maybe not as much as they do you, but a lot. I'm not naive about their ways.

I'm too old now to be in combat, except in an emergency I suppose. So, I study military history and try to understand something about warfare...maybe with the idea that there will not have to be any more of it someday.

I hope you keep low too... and if I were called upon to watch your six I would do so right up there with the meanest bastards of this group... I'd throw rocks at 'em if nothing else, or pee in their shoes at night.