Joe Galloway.."We Were Soldiers Once and Young" Author

[reconeil]

Why should I answer any questions you or any Dem/Lib/Leftists pose? Similar type sanctimonious Democrats seen often on TV, and even if only asked ONE unfavorable question, just NEVER ANSWER,...and instead just rant, rave and pretty-much go on and on and on with a non-stop and time consuming tirade, as you do (naturally using paste-ups instead, needed to divert).

Besides Gimpy, you probably can't (actually politically refuse to) understand the big difference between Medals or Decorations EARNED & AWARDED For Valor in Battle or Combat from High Command,...and Medals or Decorations SELF-RECOMMENDED FOR and/or SELF-APPLIED FOR, and sent up to High Command for approval or not,...AS DID KERRY.

Regardless, maybe I should simplify it all by posing only one question instead of the two above, and differently asking it of any member not politically BENT and therefore more likely honest,...of the prestigeous Order of The Purple Heart? So then,...here goes all You Honorable Purple Heart Recipient Veterans.

Other than possibly Kerry(?), do you people have any other members having received Purple Hearts for: "Seen worst wounds from a rose bush",... "2-3 millimeter sliver, tweezer removed",...and "Small BandAid only bandaging needed" (attending Doctor's words) type wounds?...AS DID KERRY.

Besides fighting and almost dying, believe Senator Dole afterwards had to do 3-4 years worth hospitalization and therapy to actually EARN his Purple Heart, which he proudly wears as lapel pin (miniature PH Ribbon) at every opportunity possible,...and RIGHTFULLY(every which way possible) so.

Neil

[Gimpy]

Neil my loud-mouth friend.

YOU asked for it.

I've ALREADY shown you where your "heros" (the swift-bums) have been repeatedly discredited and shown that their charges are contradicting some of their OWN previous statements about John Kerry. It's obvious that their charges are false and untrue.

You asked "how" the Purple Heart could be "awarded" to ones-self. IT CAN'T! As the documentation below PROVES!

Chew on THAT for a while! :re:

####

Common Myths About The Purple Heart Medal


The PH medal can be awarded to anyone who is hurt in a war zone.

Not true. The PH medal can legally be authorized to only three groups of personnel:

One, those wounded or injured as a direct result of hostile enemy action.


Second, those wounded or injured as a direct result of friendly fire (FF). (Broadly speaking, FF occurs only during a hostile encounter or initiative with, or in response to, an enemy when someone on your side mistakes you for the enemy.) Or when injured by your own non-projectile weapon (bayonet, sword, blunt instrument, etc.) or projectile weapons fire (bullet, explosive device, etc) while engaging, responding to or attacking an enemy.


And third , POWs injured or wounded as a result of individually directed conflict or punishment with their captor in violation of any article of the Geneva Convention Rules of Warfare Concerning the Treatment of Prisoners of War whether or not the captor's government is a signatory to the Convention.


All POWs are eligible for the PH.

Not true. See Option Three in the above regulation.


A person who accidentally shoots himself or is shot by a unit member while cleaning a weapon in a war zone can receive the PH.


Not true . Accidental shootings that do not involve an engagement with an enemy are workplace accidents.
Commanders (officer or enlisted) that are wounded or injured by subordinates or superiors (whether or not military weapons are used) in incidents commonly referred to as "fragging" are eligible for the PH.

Commanders (officer or enlisted) that are wounded or injured by subordinates or superiors (whether or not military weapons are used) in incidents commonly referred to as "fragging" are eligible for the PH.


Not true. "Fraggings" are criminal incidents. They are neither enemy nor friendly fire related even if the motivation for the 'fragging' was due to a real-time or previous enemy-related situation.


Injuries that don't break the skin or cause bleeding are not eligible for the PH.

Not true . Any non-bleeding enemy inflicted or friendly fire wound or injury, such as electrical, gas, concussion, suffocation, etc., are PH-eligible.


The PH cannot be awarded posthumously or after discharge from military service.

Not true . The majority of (but not necessarily all) combat deaths are automatically awarded the PH. Enemy or FF injured/wounded veterans who did not receive the PH prior to their discharge may, if eligible, successfully petition their service department's Awards Branch for post-service award to a discharged veteran. The Military Records Center can only issue authorization for awards that were negligently not recorded on the Report of Separation, or those awards "automatically" authorized by 'class-action' to a specified classification of personnel via Executive Order (such as the National Defense Service Medal, the Global War on Terrorism Medal(s), etc. (See URL: http://members.aol.com/forvets/htom.htm).
Please note that the each of the four (five during wartime) Service Branches (USA, USAF, USCG, USMC, USN) each have their own Awards Branch. The Awards Branch is the ONLY legal agency that can authorize a post-service military award. Only in specific cases of a previously rejected application or recommendation can a non-Awards Branch review board authorize a post-service medal to a discharged veteran.


A serviceperson can "put themself in" for the PH.


Not true. There is only one medal in the United States military inventory that allows a serviceperson to recommend him/herself. That medal is the Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal. No serviceperson can recommend themself (now or any time in the past) for the PH or any other medal.


An injured/wounded person does not have to be seen by a doctor or medic to be eligible for the PH.

Not true . Other than being wounded or injured by enemy or friendly fire, the serviceperson's wound/injury must be treated by a military or military certified medical person at the time or shortly after injury. "Shortly" is defined as the first possible OR available opportunity while currently assigned in the war theater.


A serviceperson can author his/her own After Action report that can be used solely as a basis for awarding a PH or other medal.


Not true . A written or oral After Action report must either be personally authored OR personally verified/approved by the senior military person on the scene at the time of the incident. If the recipient was the most senior ranking person on the scene the awarding officer must ascertain confirmation from all other personnel (regardless of their rank) on the scene at the time of occurrence.


A citation is always written for PH awards.

Not true . Citations are very rarely written for PH awards.

A display certificate is issued for PH awards.

Not true . The military has never been obligated/required by Congress to issue a display certificate. Neither is the PH recipient due a display certificate. Display certificates issued by the military to active duty personnel occurs only when the local command possesses certificates to issue. (Prior to 1995 the government was not required to issue a full-sized medal.) The only military display certificate required by Congress for mandatory issue is Medal of Honor.

The government maintains a list of all PH recipients.

Not true . The only military medal list authorized/budgeted by Congress is Medal of Honor. The only service branch that maintains a "tape" of its PH recipients is the Marine Corps (due to the small size of the Corps). However, Marine Corps 'tapes' of PH recipients is neither required by Congress to be publicly accessible nor utilizable to confirm authorization or award eligibility.) Marine Corps 'tapes' are used solely for internal audit purposes. The Army, Air Forces, Navy and Coast Guard does not maintain a historic list of its PH recipients.


Anyone can access a veteran' military record file to verify the award of a PH.

Not true . However, in some very restricted cases the news media, law enforcement agencies and other official entities may petition the National Records and Personnel Center of Military Records under the Freedom Of Information Act for redacted verification of PH award. (The "news media" is an official agency due to its unique status written in the U.S. Constitution.)


The federal government must replace lost or stolen PH medals.

Not true . Military medals are issued only one time. If a PH medal was never issued ONLY the recipient or a direct family member [if the recipient is infirm or deceased] may apply for a first-time issue. Replacement medals can by purchased from any military medal retailer. Only those replacement medals sold by retailers that meet official United States government specifications may/must state on their packaging that they are "Official" medals.


The only "Official" PH medals are those issued by the government.

Not true . The only metallic entity manufactured by the United States government for public distribution are currency coins. Military medals, like military weapons and other military equipment, are manufactured by private industry. See the above reference for information on the 'officiality' of U.S. military medals.


Any family member may request a medal replacement.

Not true . Military medals and information from veteran's military files can legally be requested only from the following individuals that are related to active military personnel (this includes Reservists and Guardspeople) and veterans: Parents, siblings, children. However, under the Freedom of Information Act other relatives are not completely excluded from applying for information if there are no other living relatives in the above-listed category (parents, siblings, children.)


My Representative or Senator can get me the medal or record information I want... and get them faster than I can.

Not true . (House of) Representatives and Senators should not be asked to assist in obtaining record information or medals unless their assistance is absolutely necessary in cases of disputes, irregularity, discrimination, or lack of response from the Records Center (which very rarely occurs. Although the Records Center in St. Louis MO is perpetually inundated with an overload of requests for medals or information, the Military Records Center has a long history of excellent responsiveness in fulfilling requests just as quickly as its limited budget and manpower availability [during wartime] permits.) Although some elected officials may offer themselves as advocates for record or medal retrieval during re-election seasons, authorized information or medal applicants can apply themselves using form SF-180. See URL: http://members.aol.com/forvets/htomr.htm. (House of) Representatives and Senators are best utilized for issues that cannot be accomplished after all other efforts have failed.


Employers must give hiring preference to PH recipients.

Not true . Although many Local, State and Federal agencies do provide bonus job application "points" to employment applicants. There is no federal law requiring private employers to give hiring preference to PH recipients.


Employers can demand to see my DD-214 to verify I am a PH recipient.

Not true . The only private employers who can ask to look at your DD-214 or Report of Separation are those whose job applications specifically ask you if you served in the military AND/OR if you have a service connected disability, Private employers that do not perform federal contract work may not legally retain a copy of your DD-214 in your employment file. However, private employers whose job applications do not ask if you served in the military are permitted to examine a copy of your DD-214 if you have responded or stated either orally or in your written resume that you served in the military.


Anyone can possess a PH medal or PH certificate.

True. However, it is a punishable federal offense to possess any military medal or medal certificate that you fraudulently claim you are the official recipient of. Anyone who falsely misrepresents or claims they are the legal recipient of a United States or foreign military medal or certificate is subject to severe prosecution and penalty. Family members and collectors may legally possess military medals and certificates authorized or awarded to legal recipients. The Federal Bureau of Investigation is authorized by Congress to investigate any case of military medal misrepresentation. The Unites States Attorneys Office under the United States Justice Department is authorized by Congress to prosecute cases of military medal defalcation to the fullest extent of current law.


All military medals are issued with the name of the recipient engraved on the back of the medal.

Not true . Only in very rare cases are medals officially issued with the engraved name of the recipient. However, recipients and family members are authorized to have medals engraved with the name of the legally authorized recipient. Medals currently issued by the Military Records Center and military units are not engraved except in very rare instances. Medal applicants may not, repeat not, request an engraved medal from the Records Center or any military branch. Engraving, when done, is done only rarely by those military commands that both possess engraving equipment and available personnel to perform the task.


A "V" for Valor can be awarded with a PH medal.

Not true.


If I find a PH medal that medal now belongs to me.

Not true . Lost medals (or any other military item) remains the permanent property of the United States government. Founds items should be mailed along with a letter identifying the finder and the location where the item was found to the following address:
The Secretary of Defense
Room 3E880
The Pentagon
Washington DC 20301


If I find a PH medal it's okay for me to look for the owner.

Not true . Found items should be mailed with a report to the address above.


If I buy a PH medal that once belonged to a veteran I can ask the veteran or his family to compensate me for the money I spent when I return the medal to them.

No. United States military medals hold an exalted place in our society. The military recipient of that medal gave part of him or herself. A good citizen should feel patriotic in restoring a lost item to a recipient. Whenever you see a pre-owned military medal being sold you should ask the seller to please return the medal to the Secretary of Defense at the address listed above


*This information is provided by The Military Order Of The Purple Heart and The American Infantrymans' War Library.

#####END####

Maybe you'll NOW shut up about your scurilous and false charges that Kerry "put himself in" for a Purple Heart like those lying and dishonorable fellows with the SWBVT have been attempting to get "gullible" and "uninformed" folks like yourself to belive! :cd:

Have a nice "informed" day!

PS..............Your little "tirade" about Bob Dole is ALSO "UNINFORMED"! What's the matter CAN"T you READ? I already "shot" that down in an earlier post. Here, I''ll show you AGAIN:......."Hell even ex-Senator Bob Dole got one of his EXACTLY like Kerry got one of his (shrapnel in his leg or butt or something like that.............he even accounts for it in his own auto-biography......DAMN HYPOCRITE!) before he got the one that nearly killed him in WWII ."

Maybe you ought to go out and buy Dole's BOOK if you don't believe ME!

[reconeil]

That's nice.
But, to any sane people what does ALL THAT (about a 2 1/2 foot response) have to do with Kerry's APPLYING FOR and being foolishly given a Purple Heart for a: "Seen worst wounds from a rose bush(attending Doctor's words)" type wound?
You don't even make any sense.

Besides, only a fool would even think of stating openly that Senator Dole's Purple Heart was similarly EARNED & AWARDED,...and no different than how KERRY got his Purple Heart. Yeah sure,...hospitalized for about 3-4 years and mockingly "Small BandAid" covered wounds are no different. Get Real!!!!

You must be great as a Court Jester at Dem/Leftist political meetings or classes on how to divert. Hope they pay you well on that political: "Titanic". You're worth it. You sure make me chuckle.

Neil

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by reconeil That's nice.
But, to any sane people what does ALL THAT (about a 2 1/2 foot response) have to do with Kerry's APPLYING FOR and being foolishly given a Purple Heart for a: "Seen worst wounds from a rose bush(attending Doctor's words)" type wound?
You don't even make any sense.

Did you READ the official regulations for awarding of a purple heart above? Or you just so blinded by your hate for Kerry that it is preventing you from using "logic" to comprehend what you've been reading??

Besides, only a fool would even think of stating openly that Senator Dole's Purple Heart was similarly EARNED & AWARDED,...and no different than how KERRY got his Purple Heart. Yeah sure,...hospitalized for about 3-4 years and mockingly "Small BandAid" covered wounds are no different. Get Real!!!!

Once again I'll say............DID YOU READ WHAT I PUT UP ABOVE HERE..........For Gods sake man, I'm NOT talking about the "purple heart" Dole was awarded for his "serious" injuries that kept him in the hospital all that time. I'm refering to the ONE HE WAS AWARDED BEFORE that one...........that HE EVEN TALKS ABOUT IN HIS AUTO-BIOGRAPHY which was SIMILAR IN NATURE TO KERRYS".

This makes Dole no more than a DAMN HYPOCRITE to now accuse Kerry of only having a "minor" wound for Gods sake, are you BLIND??

You must be great as a Court Jester at Dem/Leftist political meetings or classes on how to divert. Hope they pay you well on that political: "Titanic". You're worth it. You sure make me chuckle.

You wouldn't ADMIT the TRUTH if it BIT YOU IN YOUR A$$!

Gimp
Neil

The truth of the matter is that a bunch of "carreer minded" folks did in fact demand PH's for "wounds" that not only could not be determined to be in any way related to combat, but could not be subjectively considered wounds.The sad truth of the matter is that if they had enough clout and/or were willing to raise enough cain they usually got their metal.

[reconeil]

Well,...that might be good enough for the likes of Gimpy and such, and for them I really don't care (both ways). "Birds of a feather..." , politically superior fools, and: "All That Jazz".

Still, and during wartime I believe America and America's Troops deserve a much more believable, more decisive and in general much better caliber of Leader, than I believe Kerry could ever be.
Besides, The Troops like President Bush and don't despise him like the other Vietnam War Protestor called: "Clinton".
For me,...such means a lot.

Granted, for over 50 years all Presidents have failed miserably at trying their hand at micro-managing (in detail) The U.S. Military and/or playing at being Supreme Commander,...and no wonder we've never resolved things of true importance for over 50 years, both in conflicts and at home.

Neil

[firemedic]

Firstly,regardless of what side of the political fence we fall on, Hall is right and we all know it. Secondly, 99% of us don't know the facts. That's what judgement day is all about. Then the truth will be revealed for all to see...(better kepp short accounts!!!) So, let's remember that there was a time when it didn't matter one bit whether the guy next to you was a Democrat or a Republican. To a very large degree that still holds true in all our lives. I salute you all!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by Doc.2/47 The truth of the matter is that a bunch of "carreer minded" folks did in fact demand PH's for "wounds" that not only could not be determined to be in any way related to combat, but could not be subjectively considered wounds.The sad truth of the matter is that if they had enough clout and/or were willing to raise enough cain they usually got their metal.

Where is the proof or supporting documented evidence other than you just "saying" that this is true??

All the documentation from The American Infantrymans War Library, The Military Order Of The Purple Heart AND the United States Navy say you're WRONG!

I believe I will stick with THEIR official explanation of the determining criteria used in awarding the Purple Heart rather than your "version", ya know?

PS.........Recon--------Why won't you answer my question or comment about what I said regarding the "hypocritical" nature of Bob Doles first Purple Heart??? AND the fact that all supporting documentation included in the "regulations" concerning awarding of the Purple Heart totally REFUTES the scurilous charges being brought against Kerry??? Did you even READ the section regading "after action reports"? :cd: :cd: :cd:

Just asking? :cd:

I was there.I delt with the people.I treated the wounds.I documented that treatment.And I saw what happened.I have honestly repoted the reality.DO NOT try to tell me that reality isn't real just because there's a book or a rule or a "criteria" somewhere that says that that's not the way it's supposed to work.I've got a news flash for ya:most things-especially in the military-don't actually work the way some paperpusher has preordained they should.

Gimpy your response was just about as idiotic as trying to claim that Cally couldn't posibley have shot civilians became that was not authorized by the soldiers manual.

I also don't appriciate being called a lier.

[reconeil]

EXCELLENT rebuttal,...and especially (well for me anyway) that: "Don't appreciate being called a liar" part.

Still Doc, don't you see the hypocritical irony of it all? One of the main campaign tactics most always used by: "The ends justify the means" Democrats/Leftists and/or politically-pathological liars,...is to blanket label everyone (over and over and over) not agreeing with "THEIR" self/clique-serving people and agendas ABOVE ALL ELSE as liars.

Guess the quite lordly Set (mainstream media also) must all believe that if their lies are repeated by MANY and MANY times enough,...The MANY lies actually become truths.

America just simply cannot afford having such leaders during wartime. Besides The Troops deserving BETTER, "We The People" and/or potential Terrorist Targets also deserve BETTER.

I say: "Screw The Politically Bent Pundits and Politically Bent News Media, and let them find more important things of interest, to occupy air time with". After all, if or when We get nuked, I/We don't need them quite asininely explaining to us that such was The Republicans' fault or The Democrats' fault. Don't believe that We Americans are all idiots with short memories.

Neil