who is better at national security the rep.or the dem.

[BLUEHAWK]

Well crap, now CNN a few minutes ago reported that Mrs. Wilson IS (or was, surely by now) a "covert" agent after all, which puts the deal back into the illegal range... who the hell knows... she could have been Queen of Virginia.

I wouldn't put it past Rove to have his sneaky little hands somewhere in this though, either directly or indirectly-accidentally-deniably-on-purpose.

[HARDCORE]

Ya Know Blue et al -

Did ya ever get the sinking feeling that We The People are second nature, and just along for the ride, as long as we shut our mouths and keep our seats in the back of the political bus!

I keep hearing all of this fine political rhetoric about how proud the Powers That Be are that we have Freedom of Speech and can say what is on our minds. But I ask you, why is this said with a sneer or a scowl.

And most of all, why are good people with a differing view or a truthful tongue, subjected to the treachery and possibly fatal betrayal that that Ambassador and his wife were? Especially if free speech and truth are truly respected, promoted, and adhered to at the top? (opinion)

VERITAS

[Gimpy]

Star/Tribune September 30, 2003

Call it Wilson-Plame-gate. It?s not about cigars and blue dresses; it?s about the security of this nation and the danger of revealing the identity of an undercover CIA operative. In a word, it is serious.

Retired Ambassador Joseph Wilson, was sent to Niger last year by the CIA, at the behest of Vice President Dick Cheney, to research the claim that Iraq had sought to acquire uranium from Niger ? one of the central claims in the Bush administration?s case for war. He found nothing that would support claims of the uranium sale.

When news of Wilson?s report became public, an effort began to undercut his credibility. He was labeled a ?Clinton appointee,? though he worked for more Republicans than Democrats. His credentials for investigating the uranium claim were challenged, and word was leaked to columnist Robert Novak that Wilson?s wife was ?an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction.? Novak revealed that information in a July 14 column.

?Two senior administration officials,? Novak wrote, ?told me Wilson?s wife suggested sending him to Niger . . . .? The suggestion was that Wilson got the task only because of his wife and had no background in such work. It was a lame attempt at a smear; the White House later was forced to admit it erred in its claim about uranium from Niger.

The Novak column ended Plame?s undercover career for the CIA, robbing the nation of potentially valuable intelligence. She is now reported back at CIA headquarters, where she continues her work on WMD. The leak also could conceivably have put at risk her life and the lives of those with whom she had contact throughout her career. That?s why revealing the identity of an American intelligence agent is a felony.

It?s also why, early on, Bush roundly condemned the identification of American intelligence sources and promised it would never happen in his White House.

This scandal should have unfolded in July, but the mainstream media weren?t interested. The story was kept alive because of dogged work by a few online bloggers, most especially Josh Marshall of ?TalkingPointsMemo (you can find him in the blogs section of www.startribune.com/2cents). The bloggers will never get the attention and the high praise they deserve for keeping attention focused on this. So let it be noted here at least. >P> It finally hit the mainstream last weekend, when NBC reported that CIA Director George Tenet had requested a Justice Department investigation of the case.

The story has gotten tangled like a rat?s nest in the spinning that has gone on since. Bush spokesman Scott McClellan has tried to back and fill every way he could. But for once the White House press corps has refused to act like a bunch of whipped puppies.

On Sunday, the Washington Post reported that an ?administration official? told its reporters ?two White House officials leaked the information (on Plame) to selected journalists to discredit Wilson.? The Post also said that, according to ?White House aides,? Bush had no intention of asking his senior staff about the leak.

So now you?ve got both Novak and the Washington Post saying that two senior administration officials were the leakers and Bush refusing to take it seriously.

The Justice Department has responded affirmatively to Tenet?s request for an investigation. But get this: When Justice informed the White House of the investigation Monday evening, it said it would be alright if the staff was notified Tuesday morning to safeguard all material that related to the case. The staff had all night to get rid of anything incriminating.

That incredible tidbit supports calls by Democrats and a slew of others for Attorney General John Ashcroft to appoint a special counsel to investigate this case. They?re right: Ashcroft has no credibility in this, and neither does the White House, given its habitual effort to spin information, mislead the American people and smear anyone who disagrees with it

This developing scandal ultimately goes to the even more serious question of administration manipulation of intelligence on Iraq, where American soldiers continue to die almost every day in a campaign that looks increasingly like a bad mistake. American lives aren?t cheap; they should never be simply thrown away.


################################

[BLUEHAWK]

Well, I've had my say on this deal... I wouldn't put it past either side to do everything possible but the simplest decent thing which is just own up and not do it again...

I'm glad Razz brought it up though...

"senior administration official", my ass...go get Rove by his white collar, stick him in a cargo container and ship that thing one-way to the Sahara... don't let him have any electronics or he'll try to run the world from there. He can have one pencil, with which to write his memoirs on the inside walls.

[BLUEHAWK]

As of last night the Justice Dept. has assigned career lawyers to look at this thing and, yes, I do believe they are more likely to be non-partisan then would be a presidentially appointed special counsel.

Meanwhile, the Dems are doing just what the Repubs would do if the shoe were on the other foot... namely, making more of a stink about investigatorial fairness than they are about the cause itself.

God they make me sick... for once, can't they just let the thing take it's course and see what comes of it, fer cryin' out loud! Hey, COOPERATE even, what a concept...

The Prez has said heads will roll, and heads WILL roll if need be. I don't see any ducking and dodging or double-speak comin' out of him.

[blues clues]

Hey you guys if this had happened on the last administration they would have had the swat team storm the white house and have everyone taken out in cuffs.
razz

[Gimpy]

Tuesday | September 30, 2003

Did DOJ give WH heads-up to destroy docs?
The good folks over at the AP noticed a disturbing bit of timing:

The Associated Press is reporting that the Justice Department has opened a full investigation into the White House's alleged leak of undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.

Do you trust John Ashcroft to conduct this investigation in a thorough and nonpartisan manner?

The [Justice] department notified the counsel's office about 8:30 p.m. Monday that it was launching an investigation but said the White House could wait until the next morning to notify staff and direct them to preserve relevant material, McClellan said.
Since when does the Justice Department give people a several-hours head start to destroy evidence before an investigation begins?

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:cd: :cd: :cd: :cd: :cd: :cd:

[SuperScout]

From some of yor earlier comments, I can see why you chose to change your signature, as peacemakers does seem at odds with your comments. Your lynch mob mentality about Rove is truly revealing about your character. Sad, but revealing nonetheless.

Let's see now: what political party was lobbying for death of the Special Prosecutor law? But what political party now wants one so bad that the spittle and foam from their mouths is saturating every TV mike in sight? And since the Justice Department is the lead agency in the eventual apointment of a SP, assuming it will ever happen, why is everybody's tit in a wringer, trying to fast-forward to the hanging tree? More than likely, after all the dust settles, and the truth peeks its shy head out of the rubble created by the bomb-throwers, this will be relegated to the gathering file of Shakespearean irony of "Much Ado About Nothing."

What political party does the illustrious ambassador belong to, and to which campaign has he donated at least $2000? Gosh, could it possibly a diversionary tactic by the Democrats to embarrass the President? When in doubt, check the money trail. Who stand to gain by all this brouhaha? Who was it that picked this technologic genius to go find the yellow cake in Niger in the first place, when in fact, he simply wasted taxpayer money by sitting on his ass, sipping tea, by his own admission? Wilson, like Tenet, are Clintonista holdovers, and both should have been sacked by Bush within 15 seconds after the inauguration. I fault Bush, and whoever gave him the extremely bad advice about keeping these two malcontents on the payroll.

Yes, I trust John Ashcroft to direct an impartial investigation. I thank God, literally, we have a man like him, instead of someone with the moral fiber of a jellyfish like Janet Reno, who helped incinerate innocent children at Mt. Carmel, who refused to allow an impartial investigation of the campaign finances of Algore, and other examples of malfeasance.

[Keith_Hixson]

9 11 01 was definitely a lack of security created by Clinton policies.

The truth being is: the CIA, FBI, the Secret Service are run and operated by career governmnet officials. I believe that administrations have a minimal affect on the over all security issues. Of course every administration appoints its own heads at the top levels but in reality its the worker bees that run the show. The only time anything changes is when something goes wrong and the public demands a change. Other than that is samo, samo all over again regardless of the administration. To blame either administration ( democrat or republican) is just plain naive and falling into the politics of blame games. Most of Washington is run by bueaurcrats, career government workers, that is neither bad or good just a fact. The appointed leaders can only do so much to keep the worker bees in line.

I think this whole idea that one administration does better than another is naive. These government workers go from crisis to crisis before they make changes. Crisis happen in all administrations the press gets all upset blames the President and we the people believe its all the Presidents fault (Clinton or Bush - take your choice) when in reality either administration had very little to do with the failures.

In other words I think this blame game is ridiculous.

Keith

[Gimpy]

What'd I tell ya? Just stick around a while............like I said.........now he's (Super) attacking YOUR "character" because you happen to be on "opposite" sides of his warped & ridiculous mind set!

I tried to tell you, you CAN"T disagree with folks like this WITHOUT expectations of verbal attacks of a nature of which defy normal traits of human decency & fair play---they ARE NOT "programed" to comply with societal idealism that permits such behavior to overshadow or get in the way of their "agenda" to dominate their way into the minds of others!

Hopefully you'll now begin to understand my protestations regarding folks like this.