Kerry Signed Up With Jane Fonda's "Fu*k the Army" Tour To Undermine U.S. Troops

"Joe S." wrote in message
news:c0nqdq0oa4@enews2.newsguy.com...
> "OrionCA" wrote in message
> news:0rbu2090vu04a2kh3scio3prdbfkrb9gl3@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 1900 -0700, Lone Haranguer
> > wrote:
> >
> > >As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the
> > >inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war.
> > >Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda's earlier statements of
> > >1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former
> > >Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for
> > >refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her
> > >response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as
> > >being "hypocrites and liars."
> >
> > In addition, she ratted out to the camp commandant POWs who tried to
> > speak to her privately or passed her notes during her interviews.
>
>
> Not true. The claim that POWs passed notes to Fonda who then turned them
> over to the North Vietnamese is a bullshit urban legend that has been
> floating around the Internet for several years. The story has been denied
> by the POWs who were named in it.
>
> http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/lib...y/aa110399.htm

I have to agree with you, Joe. This is an extract of what Snopes has to say on
the same subject:

"The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned
over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese
and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue.
Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they
supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one
of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot
down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea
why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely
beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has
repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him."

Their treatment of this topic is much longer and deserves to be read in its
entirety. Here's the link:

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.htm

George Z.

"Joe S." wrote:
>
> "OrionCA" wrote in message
> news:0rbu2090vu04a2kh3scio3prdbfkrb9gl3@4ax.com...
> > On Sat, 14 Feb 2004 1900 -0700, Lone Haranguer
> > wrote:
> >
> > >As the American POWs returned home in 1973, they spoke out about the
> > >inhumane treatment and torture they had suffered as prisoners of war.
> > >Their stories directly contradicted Jane Fonda's earlier statements of
> > >1972. Some of the American POWs such as Senator John McCain, a former
> > >Presidential candidate, stated that he was tortured by his guards for
> > >refusing to meet with Jane Fonda and her group. Jane Fonda, in her
> > >response to these new allegations, referred to the returning POWs as
> > >being "hypocrites and liars."
> >
> > In addition, she ratted out to the camp commandant POWs who tried to
> > speak to her privately or passed her notes during her interviews.
>
> Not true. The claim that POWs passed notes to Fonda who then turned them
> over to the North Vietnamese is a bullshit urban legend that has been
> floating around the Internet for several years. The story has been denied
> by the POWs who were named in it.
>
> http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/lib...y/aa110399.htm
>
> Joe S.

Adding to that Joe, I received this story in hundreds of e-mail,
probably about 300 times, before we finally killed it.

I would tell people that the story was a clever blend of fact and
fiction, and that Jane Fonda didn't really palm the notes with
POWs SSNs and turn them over to the camp commander - and then
these people would get real mad at me and curse me out in their
e-mail replies! - I explained that the POW themselves had repudiated
the story - and still people got mad at me! They wanted very badly
to justify their anger and hatred towards Jane Fonda, not considering
that justification is already recorded in the facts.

I saw and heard POW Jerry Driscoll on national television repudiate
the story as bogus.

I finally wrote it up as a web page about two years ago.
Internet Urban Legend The Bogus Jane Fonda Story
http://vikingphoenix.com/public/rong...uspowstory.htm

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:43:04 GMT, Richard Rongstad
wrote:

>
>I would tell people that the story was a clever blend of fact and
>fiction, and that Jane Fonda didn't really palm the notes with
>POWs SSNs and turn them over to the camp commander - and then
>these people would get real mad at me and curse me out in their
>e-mail replies! - I explained that the POW themselves had repudiated
>the story - and still people got mad at me! They wanted very badly
>to justify their anger and hatred towards Jane Fonda, not considering
>that justification is already recorded in the facts.
>
>I saw and heard POW Jerry Driscoll on national television repudiate
>the story as bogus.

If you can believe Bush was AWOL, we can believe the worst of Hanoi
Jane. Frankly, we have a lot more evidence on our side than you do.
--
After Kerry returned from Vietnam he became an antiwar
activist. But was he really? In 1972 he threw his
medals away to protest the war. Years later it turned
out that he had thrown someone ELSE'S medals away and
kept his.

Ask yourself this: Would Patricia Ireland burn someone
else's bra? Then doesn't this make Kerry a fraud?

Hanoi Jane's antics stand on their own to condemn her without making up
something to add to her crimes. If you were referring to Richard believing
GW was AWOL, well, he can tell you what he believes but I have seen him call
the AWOL charge BULLSHIT. You see, the people throwing the AWOL and Deserter
bullshit around have never served a day in the military. Those who have
served see through the bullshit to what it is. Bullshit. The problem is that
90 percent of the voting public never served a day either and do not know
of their own knowledge the truth of the matter, they count on their party
leaders to tell them what to think. Is it any wonder that the democrap
mouthpieces all talk so fast that there is no possibility of getting a word
in vertical? It is because they want to tell their loyal party members how
to think. They don't want the interviewer to be asking any astute questions
that will get the truth out there. The parrots spewing the bullshit all over
the internet aren't interested in truth either. They want the power elected
office brings them and are getting desperate because the people who vote are
getting to the truth in spite of their vicious slanders and are telling them
to take a hike. The democrat party is dead. It is simply flailing about
wildly in its death throes before it will roll over and lie still. When it
finally succumbs to reality there will be a new democrat party that holds
truth as dear and valued and will be therefore able to serve the people
instead of forcing the people to conform to the current ideological line. PC
speech is an attempt at mind control. If you are not allowed to say
something then perhaps you won't even be able to think it eventually. Any
political party that embraces politically correct speech is an abomination
to a free society. A man has to be able to speak about anything he pleases,
even if he is wrong. He must be persuaded that he is wrong, not forced into
silence and therefore resenting the application of said force.

--

Don Thompson

"The only stupid questions are those that should have been asked, but
weren't, or those that have been asked and answered over and over, but the
answers not listened to." Peter Rowe


"OrionCA" wrote in message
news:6olv2017jdtakf4j6onhp3q7ll26602tj7@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:43:04 GMT, Richard Rongstad
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I would tell people that the story was a clever blend of fact and
> >fiction, and that Jane Fonda didn't really palm the notes with
> >POWs SSNs and turn them over to the camp commander - and then
> >these people would get real mad at me and curse me out in their
> >e-mail replies! - I explained that the POW themselves had repudiated
> >the story - and still people got mad at me! They wanted very badly
> >to justify their anger and hatred towards Jane Fonda, not considering
> >that justification is already recorded in the facts.
> >
> >I saw and heard POW Jerry Driscoll on national television repudiate
> >the story as bogus.
>
> If you can believe Bush was AWOL, we can believe the worst of Hanoi
> Jane. Frankly, we have a lot more evidence on our side than you do.
> --
> After Kerry returned from Vietnam he became an antiwar
> activist. But was he really? In 1972 he threw his
> medals away to protest the war. Years later it turned
> out that he had thrown someone ELSE'S medals away and
> kept his.
>
> Ask yourself this: Would Patricia Ireland burn someone
> else's bra? Then doesn't this make Kerry a fraud?

Don T wrote:

> Hanoi Jane's antics stand on their own to condemn her without making up
> something to add to her crimes. If you were referring to Richard believing
> GW was AWOL, well, he can tell you what he believes but I have seen him call
> the AWOL charge BULLSHIT. You see, the people throwing the AWOL and Deserter
> bullshit around have never served a day in the military. Those who have
> served see through the bullshit to what it is. Bullshit. The problem is that
> 90 percent of the voting public never served a day either and do not know
> of their own knowledge the truth of the matter, they count on their party
> leaders to tell them what to think. Is it any wonder that the democrap
> mouthpieces all talk so fast that there is no possibility of getting a word
> in vertical? It is because they want to tell their loyal party members how
> to think. They don't want the interviewer to be asking any astute questions
> that will get the truth out there. The parrots spewing the bullshit all over
> the internet aren't interested in truth either. They want the power elected
> office brings them and are getting desperate because the people who vote are
> getting to the truth in spite of their vicious slanders and are telling them
> to take a hike. The democrat party is dead. It is simply flailing about
> wildly in its death throes before it will roll over and lie still. When it
> finally succumbs to reality there will be a new democrat party that holds
> truth as dear and valued and will be therefore able to serve the people
> instead of forcing the people to conform to the current ideological line. PC
> speech is an attempt at mind control. If you are not allowed to say
> something then perhaps you won't even be able to think it eventually. Any
> political party that embraces politically correct speech is an abomination
> to a free society. A man has to be able to speak about anything he pleases,
> even if he is wrong. He must be persuaded that he is wrong, not forced into
> silence and therefore resenting the application of said force.
>
Charley Rangel once served but he was repeating the same old Democratic
AWOL mantra this morning. "We just don't know". Tim Russert had him on
and he babbled and babbled about it.
LZ

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message
news:c0oqsm$1a1485$1@ID-192430.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Don T wrote:
>
> > Hanoi Jane's antics stand on their own to condemn her without making up
> > something to add to her crimes. If you were referring to Richard
believing
> > GW was AWOL, well, he can tell you what he believes but I have seen him
call
> > the AWOL charge BULLSHIT. You see, the people throwing the AWOL and
Deserter
> > bullshit around have never served a day in the military. Those who have
> > served see through the bullshit to what it is. Bullshit. The problem is
that
> > 90 percent of the voting public never served a day either and do not
know
> > of their own knowledge the truth of the matter, they count on their
party
> > leaders to tell them what to think. Is it any wonder that the democrap
> > mouthpieces all talk so fast that there is no possibility of getting a
word
> > in vertical? It is because they want to tell their loyal party members
how
> > to think. They don't want the interviewer to be asking any astute
questions
> > that will get the truth out there. The parrots spewing the bullshit all
over
> > the internet aren't interested in truth either. They want the power
elected
> > office brings them and are getting desperate because the people who vote
are
> > getting to the truth in spite of their vicious slanders and are telling
them
> > to take a hike. The democrat party is dead. It is simply flailing about
> > wildly in its death throes before it will roll over and lie still. When
it
> > finally succumbs to reality there will be a new democrat party that
holds
> > truth as dear and valued and will be therefore able to serve the people
> > instead of forcing the people to conform to the current ideological
line. PC
> > speech is an attempt at mind control. If you are not allowed to say
> > something then perhaps you won't even be able to think it eventually.
Any
> > political party that embraces politically correct speech is an
abomination
> > to a free society. A man has to be able to speak about anything he
pleases,
> > even if he is wrong. He must be persuaded that he is wrong, not forced
into
> > silence and therefore resenting the application of said force.
> >
> Charley Rangel once served but he was repeating the same old Democratic
> AWOL mantra this morning. "We just don't know". Tim Russert had him on
> and he babbled and babbled about it.
> LZ
>

Precisely. He KNOWS it is bullshit but is a democrap through and through.
He is one who should be reviled as the snake that he is. He once stated that
since the "Great Society" legislation passed even more minorities are living
in poverty and recieving help than there were before and so that somehow
proves that the social engineering legislation is working.

--

Don Thompson

"The only stupid questions are those that should have been asked, but
weren't, or those that have been asked and answered over and over, but the
answers not listened to." Peter Rowe

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 02:35:45 GMT, Richard Rongstad
wrote:

>Hanoi Jane Kerry wrote:
>>
>> The real John Kerry. He and Fonda saved North Vietnam's bacon - the
>> N. Vietnamese said after the war they were ready to conditionally
>> surrender but decided to keep fighting thanks to their allies in
>> America - Fonda and Kerry. 20,000 more American boys died thanks to
>> Kerry & Fonda's efforts which dragged out the war.
>
>20,000 more American men... that's m-e-n, men.

The average age was 19 years and change. They were boys.

Bob McConnell
N2SPP

Hey moron! Read this and weep!

*****************************************

http://www.newsday.com/ny-kerry0215,...oll=ny-top-hea
dlines


1971 Photo of Kerry Doctored

By Michael Rothfeld
Staff Writer

As a 20-year-old photographer documenting the country's struggle over
the Vietnam War, Ken Light snapped the picture of John Kerry at a peace
rally in Mineola. It captured the future senator alone at a podium,
squinting into the sun.

Light did not photograph Jane Fonda on that warm June Sunday in 1971.
The actress, who is reviled by many Vietnam veterans for her vocal
stance against the war, did not even attend.

But when opponents of the Democratic presidential hopeful began
e-mailing Light's picture to one another four days ago, it depicted
Fonda standing by Kerry's side. The photo had been doctored.

"I'm horrified," said Light, 52, who grew up in East Meadow and now
heads the graduate photojournalism program at the University of
California at Berkeley. "I think this kind of alteration is probably one
of the scariest forms of trickery, particularly when it's done against a
political candidate."

Dag Vega, a spokesman for Kerry's campaign, said, "The smear tactics
have started already."

Kerry, who co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War, spoke at the
Register for Peace Rally on June 13, 1971, when thousands gathered for
"the largest anti-war demonstration ever held on Long Island," according
to a story in Newsday the next day. Light recalled Long Islanders of all
ages sprawled across the State Supreme Court mall in Mineola, with
American flags and peace symbols. Former members of Congress who
attended included Bella Abzug, Allard Lowenstein and Lester Wolff. Folk
singer Peter Yarrow entertained, and the rally ended with a burst of
thunder and lightning.

Light, a student in Ohio at the time, took the picture of Kerry but
never published it, and it sat in his files until two weeks ago when he
shipped it to Corbis, his Seattle-based agent, which placed it in its
online archives.

That is apparently where someone found it, and attempted to capitalize
on the attention garnered by an authentic photo of Kerry and Fonda at a
Vietnam-era rally -- seated some distance apart -- posted early this
month on a Web site called www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com. The
Web site's creator, Ted Sampley, a Vietnam veteran from North Carolina,
said he received the doctored photo by e-mail on Wednesday from a woman
in Richmond, Va.

"Thought you might want to include this pic on your site," said the note
from Loree Siemek, with an attachment called "HanoiJohn.jpg," a takeoff
on "Hanoi Jane," the derisive nickname given to Fonda by her critics
during the Vietnam era. It is made to look like a newspaper clipping,
headlined "Fonda Speaks to Vietnam Veterans at Anti- War Rally," with an
Associated Press photo credit. Sampley said he was immediately
skeptical, and e-mailed it to some friends who concluded it was faked.
He did not post it.

"I looked at it and it didn't feel right," Sampley said in an interview.
"It just looked too good."

Siemek, 34, reached by phone, said she found the picture on a
conservative Internet message board and had no idea it was phony.

"This thing has spiraled out of control," Siemek said. "If I had any
thought that photo was not real, I would never have forwarded it to the
veterans' group."

***************************************

No surprise that you STUPID, GULLIBLE, AMERICA-HATING FASCIST REPUGS are
so damn easy to con and control that you fell for such a stunt by the
Karl Rove Dirty Tricks Squad.

So what's it like to be proven to be a bunch of goobers, you
goosesteppers you?



In article <4638d76a.0402141625.7a77a9d@posting.google.com>,
hanoijanekerry@yahoo.ca (Hanoi Jane Kerry) wrote:

> The real John Kerry. He and Fonda saved North Vietnam's bacon - the
> N. Vietnamese said after the war they were ready to conditionally
> surrender but decided to keep fighting thanks to their allies in
> America - Fonda and Kerry. 20,000 more American boys died thanks to
> Kerry & Fonda's efforts which dragged out the war.
>
> http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2...4/130318.shtml
>
> Saturday, Feb. 14, 2004 12:58 p.m. EST
> Kerry Teamed Up With Fonda's 'F*** the Army' Cast
>
> When Democratic presidential front-runner John Kerry teamed up with
> 'Hanoi' Jane Fonda and actor Donald Sutherland for a September 1970
> anti-Vietnam War protest at Valley Forge, Pa., he was joining the same
> cast that Fonda had assembled earlier that year for her "F*** the
> Army" tour – a kind of reverse USO tour designed to undermine the
> morale of U.S. soldiers fighting in the jungles of Southeast Asia.
>
> On Friday, Kerry suggested that he had no idea how radical Fonda would
> eventually become, telling radio host Don Imus that he thought her
> decision to turn against her country by traveling to Hanoi 18 months
> after Valley Forge was "terrible."
>
> But by the time Kerry agreed to follow the anti-American actress and
> Sutherland onto the same stage 34 years ago, Fonda's anti-military
> road show was already well known to both soldiers stationed in Vietnam
> and those who had returned home.
>
> In "Winter Soldier: An Oral History of the Vietnam Veterans Against
> the War," author Richard Stacewicz notes that when Fonda and Kerry
> addressed the Valley Forge rally – as depicted in the now infamous
> photo published by NewsMax on Monday – Fonda's military-bashing
> credentials were already well-established.
>
> "Fonda was becoming very well known at that point for her support of
> the GI movement. She and Donald Sutherland had been going around to GI
> bases for a while with the FTA show ["F *** the Army," a spoof of USO
> shows that was performed just outside bases]," writes Stacewicz.
>
> Fonda's role as a kind of reverse Bob Hope is confirmed in the Vietnam
> veterans history "Stolen Valor," by B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley.
>
> "Fonda was involved in an organization called F.T.A., which we all
> knew stood for 'F--k the Army,'" Burkett, a Vietnam veteran himself,
> reports.
>
> Though both Fonda and Kerry are now both claiming their contact was
> minimal at Valley Forge and afterward, in fact, while the
> Massachusetts Democrat served as the VVAW's leading spokesman under
> the title "National Coordinator," Fonda was named the group's
> "Honorary National Coordinator," according to two histories of the
> VVAW, Andrew Hunt's "The Turning" and Gerald Nicosia's "Home to War."
>
> With her celebrity drawing power, Fonda became Kerry's leading
> fund-raiser at the VVAW, traveling the country to tout the group's
> mission to expose so-called U.S. war crimes in Vietnam.
>
> The effort culminated in the next Kerry-Fonda collaboration, the
> "Winter Soldier Investigation," which she financed and where Kerry and
> other members of the VVAW tried to elicit the most gruesome testimony
> possible from combat veterans. More than a few Winter Soldier
> witnesses later turned out to be complete impostors.
>
> Al Hubbard, VVAW's executive secretary, was also one of the principal
> organizers of the Winter Soldier event. His supposed combat heroism
> had earned him mythical status within the organization, writes author
> Hunt. He and Kerry would later go on to appear side-by side on NBC's
> "Meet the Press" to denounce the war.
>
> But as "Stolen Valor" author Burkett explained to the Wall Street
> Journal last month, his research showed that Hubbard had grossly
> inflated his combat credentials.
>
> "Hubbard claimed to be an Air Force pilot who was wounded in Vietnam.
> Truth: Hubbard was never a pilot, never an officer, never wounded and
> never assigned to Vietnam," said Burkett.
>
> Hubbard is also featured prominently in Kerry's 1971 book about the
> group's April 1971 Washington, D.C., protest, "The New Soldier," where
> he and Kerry appear in a photo together on the same stage as Ramsey
> Clark.
>
> In several calls last week to the Kerry campaign, NewsMax.com
> requested financial records from the Winter Soldier Investigation,
> including Kerry's tax returns from 1970 and expense records for the
> event, to determine to what extent – if any – he may have personally
> benefited from Fonda's largesse.
>
> The calls have not been returned.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:46:02 -0600, MHirtes
wrote:

>Hey moron! Read this and weep!
>
>*****************************************
>
>http://www.newsday.com/ny-kerry0215,...oll=ny-top-hea
>
>No surprise that you STUPID, GULLIBLE, AMERICA-HATING FASCIST REPUGS are
>so damn easy to con and control that you fell for such a stunt by the
>Karl Rove Dirty Tricks Squad.
>
>So what's it like to be proven to be a bunch of goobers, you
>goosesteppers you?


With statements like that your creditability is zero.
BTW - your ass is showing or is that you face?


Ken
11Bravo

OrionCA wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:43:04 GMT, Richard Rongstad
> wrote:
>
> >
> >I would tell people that the story was a clever blend of fact and
> >fiction, and that Jane Fonda didn't really palm the notes with
> >POWs SSNs and turn them over to the camp commander - and then
> >these people would get real mad at me and curse me out in their
> >e-mail replies! - I explained that the POW themselves had repudiated
> >the story - and still people got mad at me! They wanted very badly
> >to justify their anger and hatred towards Jane Fonda, not considering
> >that justification is already recorded in the facts.
> >
> >I saw and heard POW Jerry Driscoll on national television repudiate
> >the story as bogus.
>
> If you can believe Bush was AWOL, we can believe the worst of Hanoi
> Jane. Frankly, we have a lot more evidence on our side than you do.

Whatinell are you talking about? Whose side are you on?
Who is the "we" in "we have"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

> --
> After Kerry returned from Vietnam he became an antiwar
> activist. But was he really? In 1972 he threw his
> medals away to protest the war. Years later it turned
> out that he had thrown someone ELSE'S medals away and
> kept his.
>
> Ask yourself this: Would Patricia Ireland burn someone
> else's bra? Then doesn't this make Kerry a fraud?