History channel rejects another look at Vietnam

[Packo]

the Psycho Vets thing and get it's tongue in cheek meaning! Your right about the drug thing also.

Murph, you hit the nail on the egg, and another reason I don't feel as good about going to the Wall as I used to. Too many "HEROS" hanging around the REAL heros.

Packo

[DMZ-LT]

........ that served. Took my breath away , sis, when I saw his picture on the site you put up. Sid was right we will never, never forget. God bless US , ONE and ALL !! Gotta go , got that thing Griz gets in his eye once in awhile

[Gimpy]

standing near the intersection of U.S. 19 and state road 60 with a home-made, cardbox sign that said ---"COMBAT WOUNDED, HOMELESS VIETNAM VET NEEDS FOOD". I drove about 30 yards or so and stopped the car, got out and walked up to the guy and asked him who he served with in Nam and when was he there. He said ---"THE BIG RED ONE, I was there in 1964". I JERKED the freakin sign out of his hand and told him he was a GD LIAR cause the big red ONE wasn't even IN vietnam during 1964. Told him if I EVER saw him again with another sign claiming he was a "COMBAT WOUNDED VIETNAM VET" I would run his a$$ down with my car and to get the F--- out-ta here! He took off running like the chicken-shit SOB that he REALLY is!!

One down and THOUSANDS more ta go!!

[judyvillecco]

What I remember when guys came back is the ones who were really traumatized didn't talk about it at all and the ones who weren't talked about all their bobos. It has taken me 30years to talk about mine which was certainly not combat related. I read the stats on it and I think it was like 12-15% on both which is about like the general population for addiction or anything else. Now 9-11 will probably spawn some more down the road. But you guys are right Vietnam vets came back and worked and held down jobs and did their bit just like me and you and my husband who was a vietnam vet and many like him. Not all saw action and of those who went over not all of those saw bad action orwere traumatized by it. My late 1st husband and his tw brothers were vietnam vets. Both his brothers were wounded, one came back and has never been right but he was in bad action and has NEVER talked about it. I watched him go over a sweet innocent boy and grow old with no kids a haunted sad man in and out of veterans hospitals and jails.

[sfc_darrel]

Atta boy, Gimpy

[Arrow]

You all need to go back and read some of this stuff in a little more thoughtful manner. I have no doubt that there are thousands of vets out there that have "made" it. At least by some social standards. They got the cash, they got the toys, they got credentials and they got some kinda of title after their name.

And I am proud of them. But you guys are gettin' sideways with some people pretty close to you when you start talkin about those that came back and spent years in the bottle and on drugs. Lost out there on the road. For years. Good men. Loaded down with guilt and shame maybe for one incident that rises up in the middle of the night and tells them they did not do enough. They question their courage and their manhood. And they drank and they did drugs and wondered where God was when they needed him. With every kinda of MOS. And some of them faced down their demons and won the fight. And I am proud of them. You all go on now and sit back and pass judgement but remember but for the Grace of God buddy you and I would be walkin that same path.

Hey I'll take the time to watch the documentary. But I am not going to let them spoonfeed me bullshit. I have spent from 1978 to the present researching Agent Orange on my own. And Sid you are wrong if you were in Vietnam and you were breathin' you were exposed. You all are not considering the way our weather cycles interact with pollutants in the air.

The info is out there if you care to care to consider it. I have posted so much on this site and the vet.com site and you all just blow it off and don't read it. It's easier to insult your brother than it is to find out the facts. You are doing good men a lot of harm by spreading false information. You may even keep them from going to find out what is wrong with them. "I wasn't in combat so it can't be Agent Orange" "I wasn't in combat so it can't be PTSD".

We have had this discussion over and over again about PTSD being combat related only. Anyone that has done just a small amount of research on PTSD knows that PTSD is not only found in veterans but also in the civilian community. And those pages are posted on this site too.

Livin' the myth? What else could it be? A dead man dx by doctors at Walter Reed Hospital with Agent Orange related cancer. Long before this discussion ever came public. A bro dyin with agent orange related cancer Neither one with "combat" related mos.

I'll tell you, sure wish we would have ran into you boys before the shit hit the fan. We wouldn't have bought into this myth.

For those of you that think I wouldn't defend anyone of you in a heartbeat just back your truck up out of my driveway. You came to late to the party. I have been defending the character of Vietnam Vets most of my adult life. Those that know me know.

www.epa.gov/oar/oaqps/air_risc/3_90_023.html

http://www.ejnet.org/dioxin/

Lt..thank you..

[SEATJERKER]

...you all covered a lot of ground flailing at different sujects, and Your all right, your all wrong....

...To have served in Vietnam, and survived is the greatest asset you all have...,...after that, you were all back to only yourself defending yourselves cause you were forced into hiding your military service in the back of your minds not letting it self rise due to the "myth's" that have engulfed you... all through the tide of "public" personna, and down the "long road", it has taken a toll on a great many, but not as many as there could be, who knows how many are still just simmering out there hiding within themselves saying "I can do this on my own", and letting it manifest within them getting even worse...
...This thread touches on AO, and PTSD, and Vietnam etc, and tying it all together, lump summing it, doesn't make for any "easy" explanations...
...I don't believe for a second that only guys in the bush were the only one's "EXPOSED" to AO, there had to be at least 10 others before it hit the weeds that handled it, transfered it, splilled it, etc, and SIS is right, how many of you actually know the chemical compositions, and "half life" after it was sprayed, and what the dormancey period was until it was innert etc...

...as far as D+A, I'm sure that you guys in the bush were as scared straight as could be, and I don't care how much pot you smoked, when you head out, your fog lifted quick...drunks are picked out real quick anywhere, and if I was heading out into a CZ, I'd be sniffing breath, and knowing where my buddies were the night before...

..Now, as far a PTSD is concerned, I know it , I have it, and it sucks... It's the PTS that is early, and with proper counseling EARLY ENOUGH, you can make some heads, or tails with your life from the moment that the"trumatic" incident occures,... It's when it lays dorment for years, and years that is twists your grey matter into the "disorder" portion of it...

...I'm a LITTLE edgy by all of this, and bear with me, or not...

...By all of the contrasts , I'm just the snot nosed kid around here, but am more aware of the problems of PTSD then probably most.
...I've had it for 23 + years, and didn't know it, scared to close my eyes every night, living everyday walking out the door ready to wax the first jerk that looks crosseyed. never understanding why...
...denying every association of PTSD cause it was only for combat vet's, being moral about it, being honorable about it because it was solely reserved for those that were in combat, wrong, took it all in stride for the first 18 years until it was find help, or cash in the chips...
...still ashamed to accept the "FACT" of what I had, not being deserving made it even worse...I still feel guilty being a graduate of the "VIETNAM VETERANS RECOVERY PROGRAM", and I was never in fuckin Vietnam,... it feels like they pinned your buddy's medal on you, can any of you relate to that?... do I know the Missisippi scale yes, do i know the keane scale, yes, do I remember, I just spent 5 funkin minutes holding down an asshole that just blew a hole in another asshole, no I'm not supposed to remember him pissing all over me, and not being able to let go, I'm not supposed to remember my fuckin arm tearing out as i'm holding him down, I'm not supposed to remember his buddy blowing my brains out in my fuckin nightmare every night, so don't tell me PTSD isn't real...
...everyone deals with it their own way, me, I gotta vent, or i'm gonna blow, it's a day, by day thing, and I'm sorry for spewing...

...remember, it was just yesterday................

[Boats]

Gimpy,

I've always wanted to do that! Good Man!

[SEATJERKER]

...had a very bad night last night, and I'm sorry it shows today...

...I try to manage my thought process to avoid situations that sneak up, and set me off, and today is just one of those build ups...

...I still lie to myself, and tell myself that everything will work out, but I've found that it isn't that easy... The nights never let me rest, and it gotten worse lately, always around the 1st of every month,...

...can't fully let it out cause the wife, and kids don't understand why tears just start rolling down my cheeks, she trys, but those that don't know, just don't know, period,...

... I have it all, a great wife, two kids, the house, pool, dog, cat, but still don't have my dignity, still don't have personal honor, due to being booted,...lost my career, lost my pride, ended up cleaning toilets for the first year out of the service cause it was the only job I could get, I was good enough to work on ejection seats, the one and only life saver for our pilots, but ended up cleaning up shitters to feed myself...am I bitter, yes, was my future stolen from me, yes, did I deserve the pentence I recieved, no, so who's gonna explain it all to me, some one who has never looked into the eyes of someone trying to kill you, doubt it...

...being in "hand to hand" doesn't matter where it was, it matters that it was, and believe me, it is the longest time of your life, those 3-4 minutes (actually) were the longest in my life, and it has caused me more pain then I ever deserved, I have no one to turn to except you people here, cause by letting the "real" demons out over at the Va., they would prob lock me up, and then I'd lose even more, I can't tell them how many times, I really felt like checking out, can't jeperdize my wife, and kids future, so I "live" with the pain...

...wanting nothing more then to live a "normal" life, it was stolen from me, and I'll never get it back...

...I know I shouldn't let all of this out here, but this where I feel safe, the only place i feel safe, I know my counslers do care, but there is only so much that they can do...

[Arrow]

anyone that knows you knows your heart. One thing that the incident didn't do is take you heart. No one has spent more time trying to comfort and support any more than you. There was a time period if it had not been for you and Frank I would have ended up in a hospital. I owe you both big time along with Chris and Little John and everyone else that really knows my heart. . That was a bad time and I don't ever want to go back there. But thanks for callin and tellin' me to get my ass up out of bed. It worked. You have the number call if you need to talk. sis