Who killed JFK, this year will be 40 years ago

[SuperScout]

One man alone, rather than a conspiracy? OK, which man? If Oswald, how could he have inflicted the damage to JFK's skull by shooting from the rear? If not Oswald, then somebody else, and the involvement of Oswald automatically screams conspiracy. And given the background of Jack Ruby, I can hardly subscribe to the theory that his dastardly act was out of emotion or chasing glory; he was a fourth string thug in the army of the Mafia, running a sleazy nightclub, and about as politically astute as a cedar post. He offed Oswald (IMHO) on orders from his higher ups, further adding layers to the conspiracy cake.

[Andy]

A lot of my points have already been made, however put a few things together.

1. JFK called for a price freeze, inflation was getting bad. Almost immediately U.S. Steel and Bethlehem Steel (who were big players of the day) raised prices. Kennedy gave a speech saying the government needed to look into the idea of federalizing steel companies. This did not go over well with all of big business, those were the boys who bought and paid most all politicians during that era; if not today.

2. After the Bay of Pigs Kennedy said he wished he could, ?Tear them into a thousand pieces.? speaking of the C.I.A. If you are in a position of power, you don?t say things like that. Not if you?d like to have another birthday.

3. Joe Kennedy, an old Bootlegger from the prohibition days, had been in bed with the Mafia since the 1920s. He called in all his favors to get John elected in 1960. Then John okays brother Bobby?s actions in going after the mob, ignoring and stepping on the Holy feet of J.E. Hoover. Bobby was more vicious, and more successful than Tom Dewey when Dewey went after Lucky Luciano back in the 30s. Our National Lord Constable (Hoover) was pissed, a man who had a file on everyone, including JFK, going back to 1942. This was not a good thing. However, it wasn?t as bad as burning the mob. At that time there was an "understanding" to live and let live between the FBI, CIA and the Cosa Nostra. None of them got along all that well but they all tolerated each other. The mob wanted Bobby gone. It was determined, ?If you want to kill the snake, you cut off the head.? With JFK dead, Bobby would also be gone. If the CIA or FBI were ?directly? involved in the hit, the other agency would have ratted them out - it was the mob, case closed.

4. Let?s not forget Civil Rights. Bob and Jack were really into voting rights for blacks, integrating everything (except the Boston school system), and actually arresting clan members for crimes like, oh lets say murder. Sad to say but this made powerful enemies in many quarters.

I don?t believe any of the men on Sid?s list had anything directly to do with the murder. (They were all in some degree involved in the cover up but that is another story.) It just wasn?t necessary! The Mafia, Chicago and Miami but with permission from New York, was going to hit JFK and or RFK. A few mid-level managers or maybe some ?black agents? from the CIA, FBI and maybe the Military may have said, we would probably look the other way if such a thing happened but it was the mob. Those agents would have known their bosses would be pleased if the Kennedy?s were no longer in the picture. Do you remember Henry II being mad at his old friend Thomas Becket and saying, ?Will no one rid me of this Priest?? Kennedy had so many enemies in high places and with the Russian threat, people in power would just want to put the thing behind them. The mob with CIA assistance did find the perfect "patsy". It was supposed to be all so easy.

I think Lee Harvey did fire his old rifle. But the kill shot came from the front. This is obviously not news. As has been pointed out, several of us have seen people who took head shots and it?s really easy to tell from the holes which way the bullet came. Other than the military, I?ve been to a number of autopsies involving head shots. Even the nurse always knew which was the exit wound. Who actually killed JFK, we weren't supposed to know that. Also sure whoever it was has been pushing up daises for nearly 4 decades, probably the same is ture for the guys who hit the hitters. You take no chances in a Big operation.

Stay healthy,
Andy

[VIETNAM 1968]

After reading over the various posts concerning the John F. Kennedy Assassination, I have come to just one conclusion. I must be a very naive person who STILL BELIEVES that Lee Harvey Oswald (as well as possibly one or two other shooters) acted alone (and with no outside help) to carry out the Kennedy Assassination.

Before all my respected Vietnam Veteran Brothers start the fire to BURN ME AT THE STAKE WHILE STILL ALIVE, please let me explain why:

I would rather believe that Lee Harvey Oswald, and possibly one or two other shooters, acted without any outside help; RATHER THEN ADMIT TO MYSELF THAT PART OF OUR OWN GOVERNMENT IN PLACE AT THAT TIME, actually CONSPIRED TO ASSASSINATE OUR OWN PRESIDENT. That type of despicable action should only happen in very unstable countries such as Third World Nations. Not the strongest and most stable country in the world. To believe otherwise would destroy all of my beliefs that our country was WORTH DEFENDING DURING ALL THE WARS OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN FORCED TO FIGHT IN. In addition, I still want to believe that ALL THE NAMES OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS, THAT ARE ENGRAVED ON THAT BLACK GRANITE WALL IN WASHINGTON D.C. REALLY DIED FOR A GOOD CAUSE. The preservation of our Government and Way of Life!!

To believe that a part of that same Government which I freely served in Vietnam to support back in the 1960s, was corrupt and dirty enough to MURDER or OWN PRESIDENT, completely destroys all my beliefs of why I served in Vietnam in the first place.

If the Government Involved Conspiracy Theory is accurate, then our Government, and the United States itself, IS NO BETTER THEN THOSE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES IN WHICH ASSASSINATION OF GOVERNMENT LEADERS, BY OTHER CORRUPT MEMBERS OF THE GOVERNMENT, IS A REGULAR EVENT. We, as a Government, are supposed to be above that type of behavior and worthy of RESPECT. Respect from the rest of the World, as well as our own citizens who sometimes are called upon to fight and die to protect that Government. How can we, AS A GOVERNMENT, seek Respect from the rest of the world (and especially the very people called upon to defend that government) when the possibility exists that even a small part of THAT GOVERNMENT COULD ACTUALLY BE INVOLVED IN A PLOT TO ASSASSINATE IT'S OWN PRESIDENT!!

IF I STARTED TO BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT INVOLVED ASSASSINATION THEORY IS ACCURATE AND CORRECT, then all the Draft Dodging Cowards that fled to Canada, rather then support our Government, made the right decision. We as Vietnam Veterans that supported our Government, made the incorrect decision to fight and die.

This post is in no way meant to degrade any of my Brothers and Sisters who wish to believe that members of our own Government were responsible for John Kennedy's Assassination and then acted to cover it up afterward. I am merely attempting to put forth why I like to think that the tragic act was carried out by person, or persons, outside of our Government, and with no direct connection to that Government. MAYBE IT IS BEST IF WE NEVER LEARN THE COMPLETE DETAILS OF THAT TRAGIC DAY BACK IN DALLAS, TEXAS!! If the Government Involved Assassination Theory is correct, that knowledge might destroy us as a nation. Just look what the Nixon Scandal almost managed to do to our Government when that knowledge came out. AND NOBODY WAS MURDERED DURING THAT SCANDAL!!

To all my Vietnam Veteran Brothers and Sisters I again state:


WELCOME HOME


VIETNAM 1968 :cd:

[Andy]

In November of 1963 the Attorney General of the U.S. was Bobby Kennedy. His brother had just been killed. The Kennedy?s and LBJ never got along well. Why didn?t Bobby go after the ?real? killers of his brother? He saw the autopsy pictures, he knew it wasn?t Lee Harvey, why didn?t he do anything? He had a special investigative unit independent of the FBI, hence he had the means. Was it just a case of his believing Hoffa and the boys would do him next if he rocked the boat? Would way too much information come out if he did an investigation? what happened?

Keith: I?m not a conspiracy nut, nor do I have any desire to go to Area 51. However you take a 19 year old who just passed his classes including ?Crime Scene Search? and ?Basic Investigative Skills? and he?d say, ?Wait, this Kennedy thing is all wrong.? While I was in high school, after the assassination, there were numerous raids by Mass police and troopers on low level mob people. It was, ?Strike a blow for Kennedy?. The mob killing JFK was one of those secrets like Joe Kennedy imported hard liquor during prohibition from England and Ireland and the cops helped unload the ships. Everyone knew but you?d just shrug your shoulders and said, ?That?s how things are done.?

Packo: You could believe in the Magic Bullet but only if you believe the Tooth Fairy placed it on the stretcher. It?s odd that the Tooth Fairy knew what caliber to place on that stretcher but it was magic.

The Green Beanie that wasn?t, was part of what Sid and I were talking about on the other thread. A SF guy killed a navy doctor who was at the autopsy and took some pictures with his own camera. This was learned and the doctor was the victim of a suicide. (Sort of like the old Sheriff saying, ?He died of natural causes. 4 bullets in the head, naturally he died?. A Navy Corpsman who saw some of the slides taken by the doctor told what he knew, 20 years after the fact. When another Green Beanie saw the program, (think it was ?The Men Who Killed Kennedy?) he remembered he had been offered to hit and doctor, the doctor had an odd name, he declined but recalled the name. He also recalled one of the guys he was stationed with, being taught how to do the ?one shot, one kill? thing disappeared; not only from his duty station but from the face of the earth, plus he never did exist. But that?s all part of the messy cover up, it?s not the plan to murder Kennedy.

Vietnam 1968: You don't upset me, I'm glad there are people who feel the government would not plan the assassination of the president. I don't think the "government" did the planning either, a rogue agent here and they may have helped the mafia, but to say the FBI, CIA and others planned the murder, no. I don't believe that either.
Are there people you are supposed to trust who betray you? Monday a Springfield cop who's been a cop for 16-18 years was busted for trafficking (6 counts) in Coke. Not use or even distribution but trafficking. I'm being told some of the deals were done out of a cruiser. Shit happens and I'll bet some other officers knew what was going on. It's our government, or at least a mid-level manager within the government who drifted over to the other side. But that doesn't mean the policy of SPD is to be drug dealers?

Stay healthy, don?t spit into the wind or mess with a junk yard dog,
Andy

[PHO127]

Like Larry but did some serious thought about it later and decided no. What really changed my mind was listening to the tape of LBJ whining to McNamara about the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. LBJ was whining about the info that maybe the Maddox and Turner Joy had not really been shot at. I made up my mind that LBJ was being led around like a bull with a nose ring. I agree that He was a nasty politition but I don't think he was the Coup type.

PS Larry: I ordered the book by Craig Roberts today.

[SuperScout]

I can also appreciate your confusion, having practiced it on a daily basis! But hopefully, to put your mind at ease, it wasn't the government per se that killed Kennedy, so you can put those fears aside, continue to believe that what we were trying to accomplish in Vietnam was decent and honorable, and feel the justifiable pride that most of us feel. It is sad, however, that our own government did indeed conspire and cooperate with elements within the South Vietnam government, with the resultant action being the assassination of their own president, just a few months before JFK was killed.

[PHO127]

Minor restatement, Our government did not conspire to have the SVN president killed, our government planned it and executed it. If you go to the documents released under the FOIA from the CIA you will find that we planned the overthrow to be just prior to the SVN elections.

[SuperScout]

True. From my studies, I seem to recall that there was a SVN general with whom we (the involvees) were very chummy, and while he didn't have a finger on the trigger, he was there. With or without their active participation, this assassination didn't help our overall efforts, but it did take some of the pressure off JFK and how the self-emulations were keeping the pot stirred. Thanks for the correction!

On the subject of JFK, I may need to read the latest potboiler and see if any mention is made of his role in the violent change of leadership in SVN. With ol' JFK porkin' both young and old, it's a wonder he had any time for the war at all.

[82Rigger]

...in the killing of JFK:


The descriptions of the injuries on the body at Parkland Hospital in Dallas and the descriptions of the injuries at the autopsy at Bethesda are wildly different, in some cases in different locations, and in some cases differ in number.
An ENTRANCE wound at Parkland became an EXIT wound at Bethesda. An Exit wound at Parkland about the size of a large egg became an ENTRANCE wound at Bethesda and increased in size to involve not only the occipto-parietal but the FRONTAL area of the skull...a MASSIVE hole. A hole which does NOT show up in the X-rays OR the photos.

Makes me wonder if the "evidence" was tampered with...if the wounds were altered.

Steve / 82Rigger

[the humper]

" a nasty politician" is being polite!!!!! He was a certified thief. And I do mean certified.. Box 87 in Jim Wells county was where he won his big victory by 83 votes. Two hundred plus votes came, in alphabetical order, out of the cemetery. Had the occasion to meet in the mid '60's the X-FBI agent who investigated that situation and the report he sent in, all the way to D.C was never acted on!!!!!!!!!!
SF
NC