How John Kerry Helped Hanoi Jane During JFK's Vietnam War! Kerry Call Viet Vets' "Baby killers" JFK - His Hero - Started The War!

well, there you go again, chuckie.
trading your principles for the chance to hurl yet another puerile, windbag
retort.
you go, boy!

"Charlie Wolf" wrote
> ...and why should we believe stupid assholes like you, who don't even
> know how to use a shift key to capitalize a sentence???
> You're a fucking liar - fuck off.

well, dick, i can see that you're a stout little piece of republican cannon
fodder. your diarrhea of cut and paste stock lies would do your masters
proud.
i did notice that even the head of bush's campaign called kerry's military
record honorable. but then those people leave it to useful idiots like you
to spread the lies and calumnies that are at the heart of bush's campaign
strategy, since he couldn't get appointed dog catcher on the basis of his
record.


"Richard Rongstad" wrote
> In your class warfare rant you forgot that:
>
> (1) The morons displaying barely readable photocopies of
> George W. Bush's National Guard records during the Vietnam War
> online as if it is evidence of some cockamamie bullshit they've
> dreamed up are really displaying their ignorance and trying to
> exploit the average citizen that also doesn't understand such things.
>
> (2) This tactic comes out of the New Left Seminar Caller's Manual,
> a popular edition favored by Peta, Sierra Club, Socialist Worker's
> Party, Greens, socialists, pedophiles, progressives and other Democrats.
>
> (3) In turn, the New Left Seminar Caller types of manuals draw upon
> the lessons learned from political warfare pamphlets that were
> initially inspired by the Bolshevik and Soviet guidebooks distributed
> in the U.S. by the Comintern, a duty later taken over by the KGB.
>
> Incidentally, these guidebooks were provided by the same people
> that sent money to CPUSA leader Gus Hall. I believe it was also
> later revealed that money was sent from Moscow to support
> Jimmy Carter's run for president. The communists in Moscow saw
> Carter as a potential ally. Maybe Al Gore, Jr. ran a shit
> campaign because the Soviet money and support for the Gore family
> via agent of influence Armand Hammer during the Vietnam War
> had dried up by then.
>
> (4) Republicans and almost every political faction in the U.S.
> have borrowed ideas from the Democrat's Soviet inspired political
> playbooks, and oh, how the left squeals everytime, but, political
> playbooks coming from the Republican side are home grown.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 10:36:43 -0600, Joe Manual
wrote this crap:

>>>President but electing Kerry will be worse than one thousand Clintons.
>>
>>That's not possible.

>vote for him and find out.

I'd rather elect Hitler than live through another eight years of
Clinton.


Horvath@Horvath.net

This signature is now the ultimate power in the universe

Luis ORTEGA emerged from his very own place where the sun
doesn't shine, blinked and wrote:
>
> well, dick, i can see that you're a stout little piece of republican cannon
> fodder. your diarrhea of cut and paste stock lies would do your masters
> proud.

Well, well, what do we have here? Another Bush hating, Vietnam vet
hating John Kerry booster?

I can tell I touched several frayed nerves in your fragile psyche.
What nerves could that be?

When you finally work out that cross-threaded tampon and get your
raging spiritual infection under control, you can call me Richard.

Myself, I'm just a slim, trim, rompin' stompin' promoter of John Kerry
for Swift Boat skipper of the week and you can shove your pitiful
"republican cannon fodder" line up your gaping ass, taking
all due care to not scrape your teeth too hard.

> i did notice that even the head of bush's campaign called kerry's military
> record honorable. but then those people leave it to useful idiots like you

Come on there Ortega, you're capable of something better than this!
Well, aren't you? Kerry's military record is honorable. Hell, it's
heroic! Who needs Bush's people to figure that out? You?

Bush's National Guard record is unremarkable. Somebody needs to
explain this to you and Molly Ivins, I give up.

> to spread the lies and calumnies that are at the heart of bush's campaign
> strategy, since he couldn't get appointed dog catcher on the basis of his
> record.

Well, you can spread your own lies and calumnies, it only helps
Bush, if that's what you want to do.

> "Richard Rongstad" wrote
> > In your class warfare rant you forgot that:
> >
> > (1) The morons displaying barely readable photocopies of
> > George W. Bush's National Guard records during the Vietnam War
> > online as if it is evidence of some cockamamie bullshit they've
> > dreamed up are really displaying their ignorance and trying to
> > exploit the average citizen that also doesn't understand such things.

Is this your raw nerve Luis Ortega? I guess you don't like being told
those barely readable photocopies will be dismissed as so much tempest
in a teacup bullshit from the Bush haters.

> > (2) This tactic comes out of the New Left Seminar Caller's Manual,
> > a popular edition favored by Peta, Sierra Club, Socialist Worker's
> > Party, Greens, socialists, pedophiles, progressives and other Democrats.

Ooh! Which part hurt the worst? Pedophile? Peta? Democrat? There all
in the same tent Luis.

> > (3) In turn, the New Left Seminar Caller types of manuals draw upon
> > the lessons learned from political warfare pamphlets that were
> > initially inspired by the Bolshevik and Soviet guidebooks distributed
> > in the U.S. by the Comintern, a duty later taken over by the KGB.

Ouch! That must really touch a nerve in you Luis Ortega.
You really are a spiritual heir to the Bolsheviks?

> > Incidentally, these guidebooks were provided by the same people
> > that sent money to CPUSA leader Gus Hall. I believe it was also
> > later revealed that money was sent from Moscow to support
> > Jimmy Carter's run for president. The communists in Moscow saw
> > Carter as a potential ally. Maybe Al Gore, Jr. ran a shit
> > campaign because the Soviet money and support for the Gore family
> > via agent of influence Armand Hammer during the Vietnam War
> > had dried up by then.

Did you get some of that sweet Soviet money from the Gus Hall machine?
Or, you voted for Jimmy Carter?

> > (4) Republicans and almost every political faction in the U.S.
> > have borrowed ideas from the Democrat's Soviet inspired political
> > playbooks, and oh, how the left squeals everytime, but, political
> > playbooks coming from the Republican side are home grown.

Luis Ortega squeals, just like a fat chick in a doughnut shop.

"Lone Haranguer" wrote in message

> > I've seen an F-16 that looks real. It's about 8 feet long and uses the
Bair
> > Micro Turbine.
> >
> > See http://www.bairdtech.com/bmt/ for information. Of course, everybody
> > needs two or three. (G)
> >
> > --
> > Dave Thompson
> > (The Other)
>
> I'd like to rent one to fly cover on the freeway. Nothing like a little
> strafing to cure a case of road rage.
> LZ

You never met Spectregunner, did you? Before your time, I expect.

ted
> >
>

Richard Rongstad wrote:

> Lone Haranguer instructed Luis Ortega:
>
>>Luis ORTEGA wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Lone Haranguer" wrote
>>>
>
>
> [snip]
>
>
>>>go back to sucking on your blanket, linus.
>>>you're pissing against the wind here, kid.
>>
>>This "kid" will be 70 tomorrow, junior. I've probably been retired from
>>the military longer than you have been alive.
>
>
> Happy birthday!
>
Why thank you. I have to write a new plan tomorrow, I hadn't planned on
living this long.
>
>>Now take your pacifier
>>out of your ass, put it back in your mouth and run along.
>>LZ
>
>
> A do admire your way with words.

By golly I do have something going for me after all these years....
LZ

Luis ORTEGA wrote:

> "Lone Haranguer" wrote >
>
>>Keep flogging your dong. I hear it's good for frostbite.
>
>
> you speaking from vast personal experience here, linus?
>
>
"I hear".....

How's that chocolate-covered pacifier taste?
LZ

Luis ORTEGA wrote:

> "Lone Haranguer" wrote
>
>>This "kid" will be 70 tomorrow, junior. I've probably been retired from
>>the military longer than you have been alive. Now take your pacifier
>>out of your ass, put it back in your mouth and run along.
>
>
> don't confuse being old with being mature, linus.

Heavens to Murgatroyd! I would never do such a thing. (What does
"mature" mean?)

> from the way you talk, you have the intellectual and emotional maturity of a
> self-absorbed, dimwit kid.

Thanks. I practice a lot.

> that's a pretty sad situation for such an old guy.

Why? Everyone thinks I'm Calvin.

> grow up, boy, and get a clue.

I'm having more fun as Calvin.

> right wing hatemongers are on the wrong side of the issues.

I don't know anyone who fits your description. Did you get it from your
DNC poop sheet?

> you peoiple are reduced to flogging tortured apologies for bush's dismal
> record and spreading vicious lies about his opponents.

You just display your own ignorance when you parrot those tired DNC
rumors. Anyone who ever left his yard knows they are BS.

The truth about ANY Democratic candidate is enough to sink their boat.
LZ
>
>

"Luis ORTEGA" wrote in message news:...

[...]
> Computer records show last physical as May 1971. Which also shows him as CR
> MEM ON FS (crew member on flight service) not PILOT.
>
> During his fifth year as a guardsman, Bush's records show no sign he
> appeared for duty.
>
[...]

> Sept. 5, 1972: Bush is granted permission to do his Guard duty at the 187th
> Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery. But Bush's record shows no evidence he
> did the duty, and the unit commander says he never showed up.
>
> November 1972 to April 30, 1973: Bush returns to Houston, but apparently not
> to his Air Force unit.
>
> May 2, 1973: The two lieutenant colonels in charge of Bush's unit in Houston
> cannot rate him for the prior 12 months, saying he has not been at the unit
> in that period.
>
> May to July 1973: Bush, after special orders are issued for him to report
> for duty, logs 36 days of duty.
>

Along with the 1999 investigation by the Dallas Morning News, this
paints a picture for me. Here are some quotes:


"Records from his military file show that in January 1968, after
inquiring about Guard admission, Mr. Bush went to an Air Force
recruiting office near Yale, where he took and passed the test
required by the Air Force for pilot trainees. His score on the pilot
aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile,
the lowest allowed for would-be fliers."

"He was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing
and qualified to spend more than a year in active training, and extra
shifts after training, flying single-seat F-102 fighter jets. Once he
was in, Guard officials sought to capitalize on his standing as the
son of a congressman."

"After completing basic training in San Antonio in August 1968, he
helped out aircraft mechanics at Ellington until that November, when a
pilot-training slot came open. He was promoted to second lieutenant
and began a 13-month pilot training program at Moody Air Force Base,
in Georgia."

"Under the terms of his contract with the military, if Mr. Bush had
failed to complete pilot school, he would have been required to serve
the Guard in some other capacity, to enter the draft, or to enlist in
another branch of the military. After passing flight training, Mr.
Bush was schooled for several more
months at Ellington, and in March 1970 began flying 'alerts,' the name
used to describe the 147th's mission of guarding gulf coast borders
against foreign attack."

In 1970, Bush told the press,
"Fighters are it. I've always wanted to be a fighter pilot, and I
wouldn't want to fly anything else."

In 1999 he said,
"You will die in your airplane if you didn't practice, and I wasn't
interested in dying."

'A former non-commissioned officer who worked on planes and supervised
other ground crews at Ellington said Mr. Bush was not a silver-spoon
snob or elitist, unlike some former Air Force fliers. "I remember him
coming down, kicking the tires, washing the windows, whatever," said
Joe H. Briggs, now of Houston.'

********

I like what I see of Bush's personality here.

I've read that his college friends said he drank a lot because he felt
he was expected to follow his father's footsteps, but he wasn't cut
out for it.

An aptitude at the 25th percentile suggests that Bush would never be a
Chuck Yaeger, but it seems the ANG wanted him as a pilot for
publicity.

In March of 1970 he began serving as an interceptor pilot. In May of
1971 his physical report listed him as a ground-crew member, not a
pilot. Briggs, who supervised ground crews, found him unusually
helpful for a pilot. Now it sounds as if Bush had been removed from
pilot status.

Like a space shuttle, the F-102 settled and touched down fast. For
somebody without a strong aptitude, it sounds like an accident about
to happen. It would have been a black eye for the ANG if Bush had
gone up in a ball of flame. After they paraded him before the press
as a pilot who had always wanted to be a pilot, public knowledge that
the ANG had grounded him would also have been a black eye for the
organization and his father, Congressman Bush.

I think there was an inquiry about retraining him to fly a more
forgiving aircraft, and that was turned down. It sounds as if Bush
would have been glad to fulfill his obligation in other ways, but if
he'd stayed long at Houston or any other base, people in his unit
would have realized he'd been grounded. I think the ANG arranged for
him to lie low, to protect their own image.

I'm sure I could criticize Bush on some counts, but in his military
service he sounds like a decent, patriotic young man for whom being a
congressman's son was a misfortune.

Homer

Homer Brewer wrote:

> "Luis ORTEGA" wrote in message
> news:...
>
> [...]
>> Computer records show last physical as May 1971. Which also shows him as
>> CR MEM ON FS (crew member on flight service) not PILOT.
>>
>> During his fifth year as a guardsman, Bush's records show no sign he
>> appeared for duty.
>>
> [...]
>
>> Sept. 5, 1972: Bush is granted permission to do his Guard duty at the
>> 187th Tactical Recon Group in Montgomery. But Bush's record shows no
>> evidence he did the duty, and the unit commander says he never showed up.
>>
>> November 1972 to April 30, 1973: Bush returns to Houston, but apparently
>> not to his Air Force unit.
>>
>> May 2, 1973: The two lieutenant colonels in charge of Bush's unit in
>> Houston cannot rate him for the prior 12 months, saying he has not been
>> at the unit in that period.
>>
>> May to July 1973: Bush, after special orders are issued for him to report
>> for duty, logs 36 days of duty.
>>
>
> Along with the 1999 investigation by the Dallas Morning News, this
> paints a picture for me. Here are some quotes:
>
>
> "Records from his military file show that in January 1968, after
> inquiring about Guard admission, Mr. Bush went to an Air Force
> recruiting office near Yale, where he took and passed the test
> required by the Air Force for pilot trainees. His score on the pilot
> aptitude section, one of five on the test, was in the 25th percentile,
> the lowest allowed for would-be fliers."
>
> "He was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing
> and qualified to spend more than a year in active training, and extra
> shifts after training, flying single-seat F-102 fighter jets. Once he
> was in, Guard officials sought to capitalize on his standing as the
> son of a congressman."
>
> "After completing basic training in San Antonio in August 1968, he
> helped out aircraft mechanics at Ellington until that November, when a
> pilot-training slot came open. He was promoted to second lieutenant
> and began a 13-month pilot training program at Moody Air Force Base,
> in Georgia."
>
> "Under the terms of his contract with the military, if Mr. Bush had
> failed to complete pilot school, he would have been required to serve
> the Guard in some other capacity, to enter the draft, or to enlist in
> another branch of the military. After passing flight training, Mr.
> Bush was schooled for several more
> months at Ellington, and in March 1970 began flying 'alerts,' the name
> used to describe the 147th's mission of guarding gulf coast borders
> against foreign attack."
>
> In 1970, Bush told the press,
> "Fighters are it. I've always wanted to be a fighter pilot, and I
> wouldn't want to fly anything else."
>
> In 1999 he said,
> "You will die in your airplane if you didn't practice, and I wasn't
> interested in dying."
>
> 'A former non-commissioned officer who worked on planes and supervised
> other ground crews at Ellington said Mr. Bush was not a silver-spoon
> snob or elitist, unlike some former Air Force fliers. "I remember him
> coming down, kicking the tires, washing the windows, whatever," said
> Joe H. Briggs, now of Houston.'
>
> ********
>
> I like what I see of Bush's personality here.
>
> I've read that his college friends said he drank a lot because he felt
> he was expected to follow his father's footsteps, but he wasn't cut
> out for it.
>
> An aptitude at the 25th percentile suggests that Bush would never be a
> Chuck Yaeger, but it seems the ANG wanted him as a pilot for
> publicity.
>
> In March of 1970 he began serving as an interceptor pilot. In May of
> 1971 his physical report listed him as a ground-crew member, not a
> pilot. Briggs, who supervised ground crews, found him unusually
> helpful for a pilot. Now it sounds as if Bush had been removed from
> pilot status.
>
> Like a space shuttle, the F-102 settled and touched down fast. For
> somebody without a strong aptitude, it sounds like an accident about
> to happen. It would have been a black eye for the ANG if Bush had
> gone up in a ball of flame. After they paraded him before the press
> as a pilot who had always wanted to be a pilot, public knowledge that
> the ANG had grounded him would also have been a black eye for the
> organization and his father, Congressman Bush.
>
> I think there was an inquiry about retraining him to fly a more
> forgiving aircraft, and that was turned down. It sounds as if Bush
> would have been glad to fulfill his obligation in other ways, but if
> he'd stayed long at Houston or any other base, people in his unit
> would have realized he'd been grounded. I think the ANG arranged for
> him to lie low, to protect their own image.
>
> I'm sure I could criticize Bush on some counts, but in his military
> service he sounds like a decent, patriotic young man for whom being a
> congressman's son was a misfortune.
>
> Homer
Sounds like someone blew it because in the Bush Biography it states that
Bush was current as a pilot until his discharge. Also, is it JUST a
coincidence that the flight physical that Bush did not take included for
the first time DRUG TESTING. His excuse for not taking the physical was
that he was transfering to Alabama and his flight surgeon could not
administer the test - or that the unit he was reporting to did not have the
aircraft he was traind to fly. He fails to mention that he FIRST tried to
get into a POSTAL unit in Alabama but even the National Guard did not
permit that.