Re: Vietnam Veteran question

1971, returned to US, had garbage thrown at me at SeaTac
airport..........freakin' hippies!

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 1333 -0600, "Randy Cox"
wrote:

>That war was WRONG!


Who in the hell told you that? Did you know that the communist
victors were responsible for more deaths in the three years following
their victory than were killed in the previous thirteen years by both
sides in the war?

Randy Cox wrote:
> ...I supported the War in Vietnam. ... That war was WRONG!

You appear to be incredibly confused (especially about YOUR responsibility in a democracy).

If the war was WRONG, then it was murder, and our soldiers participated in murder. They ARE murderers. Period.

> My granddaughter is on her second week of basic, right now.
> ...She doesn't follow news or politics.

Your grandaughter doesn't know her responsibility in a democracy either.
Apparently she will be a murderer, too.

> I did not support this war. I despise those who rushed into it with
> lies, dividing our nation, but we are there now! We have to stay the
> course until we have won or lost.

In other words, we must continue the murder, since our national pride is far
more important than lives of Arabs, right?

> They asked for volunteers....and she responded.

Every military, ragardless how evil, asks for volunteers. Each such
volunteer is a "patriot".

You have a lot of thinking to do.

I would put my own educational qualifications up against his any day.
Feller don't make the Presidents list 6 semesters in a row by being unable
to spell. Nor does he do so while walking around campus stoned on his ass.
Seems our blueballmonkey, oops, greenbaboon, is just like his namesake
capable only of sitting on his monkey ass throwing his own shit at the
passing heros.

I pity the young punk though, in a way. He is a product of the
"educational" system foisted off on the American public. The "educators"
brainwash the poor kids and give them failing grades if they don't spout the
party line on command. God help one of those kids that demonstrates an
ability to do his own research into the facts by coming to an oposite
conclusion than the liberal utopians teaching him that it is better to have
peace, at any price, than to go to war to save your way of life.

--
Don Thompson

"The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before
them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
Thucydides

"Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
Albert Camus


"GrgLnsctt" wrote in message
news:20040112143729.19889.00002488@mb-m01.news.cs.com...
> >My goodness, you do speak well!
> >You learned to speak, like, good English when you were in Nam, did'nt
'ya?
> >Did you think that JUST because you were in Nam that you deserve
> >respect? You don't.
>
> Nah! In Nam we learned how to kill murdering communist aggressors. We went
to
> fight tyranny and oppression. We went to try and help preserve freedom. I
don't
> need anyones' respect or disrespect. Some of my peers did not approve of
my
> participation in Vietnam. And they are free to express their opinions
without
> fear of reprisal.
>
> Recently, a Vietnamese journalist posted an internet msg disagreeing with
a
> Chinese/Vietnam border agreement. For his efforts he received 7 years hard
> labor in jail.
>
> Greg

Don T wrote:
> go to war to save your way of life.
>

he he he...

Would that "way of life" be massive oil cunsummers?

Heh!... "No Blood For Oil"... Heh!

Your position is morally indefensible, as you trip from one
bogus "reason" to the next.

he he he...

"Mr. X" wrote in message news:v1yMb.61661>
> And if there is any whitewashing of history going on, it seems to me being
> done to cover up the governments inaction which has resulted in so many
> homeless vets, and so many without health care. Is this "spitting thing"
> meant
> to divert attention from the real culprit?

Those Vietnam vets who are homeless and on the street are usually there
because they prefer that life, not because there is no alternative. In
Texas, a Vietnam vet who is that down on his luck can get plenty of help
from local VA. The local VA reports indicate that those guys don't want the
help; they just want a night or two in a nice bed and enough cash to score
some beer or drugs.

The average Vietnam vet is ahead of his peer group in most economic
criteria.

I have yet to encounter a "Vietnam vet" on the street--and I see them every
day--who served in Vietnam.

And I bet that I know more real Vietnam vets than you do. Most of them are
too polite to address you in the terms that Don T. used. But they may well
be thinking along similar lines.

ted

"Matt Osborn" wrote in message
news:6t96005egnbs7e8jnlci7sg962lkusvfdi@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 1333 -0600, "Randy Cox"
> wrote:
>
> >That war was WRONG!
>
>
> Who in the hell told you that? Did you know that the communist
> victors were responsible for more deaths in the three years following
> their victory than were killed in the previous thirteen years by both
> sides in the war?

A South Vietnamese man told me that. He invited me over to his house to see
his Kachina collection, explained the similarities of the Eastern viewpoint
to the American Indian viewpoint.....and he gave me his family history in
Vietnam. Some of his family had grown wealthy from helping the French
oppress the Vietnamese...and some of his family had worked with Ho Chi Minh
to kick out the French and unify Vietnam. It was a very complicated
history...and very sad. He fought along side Americans, but a sister he
loved fought against them.

I know that the 55,000 dead Americans did not prevent the deaths you speak
of. I believe that people have the right to self-determine their own
government....even if they foolishly choose communism.

I know that Ho Chi Minh worked hard to save downed American pilots and
smuggle them out of China during World War II. I know he asked Eisenhower
to help him unify Vietnam and kick out the French exploiters. Eisenhower
chose to support feudal imperialism of the French rather than reform and
unification. Eisenhower's decision to help the feudal element.....forced an
alliance with the Communists that led to the deaths that you speak of.
There was a communist presence before Eisenhower turned Ho down...but it
could have gone other directions. I'm not an expert on the details, but I
believe in self-determination. Self-determination means the people of a
nation must work out their own government in their own ways. Large numbers
died in our own wars for self-determination against the English, and again
in the North vs. the South. My family died on both sides as Cherokee and
Choctaw were assimilated into the American Experiment and the Irish,
English, French and Moor/Jew immigrants attached themselves to the land. It
happens....but when it is over....it is STUPID to keep the drums of war
beating!

We fought the communists in Russia one way....and we won. We fought them
another way in Vietnam. We lost! Go tell someone else the war was right!
I supported it when it was happening...but I'm done with it now.

You can respect that or not!

Randy R. Cox

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 0152 +0000, Ted Gittinger wrote:


> "Mr. X" wrote in message news:v1yMb.61661>
>> And if there is any whitewashing of history going on, it seems to me
>> being done to cover up the governments inaction which has resulted in
>> so many homeless vets, and so many without health care. Is this
>> "spitting thing" meant
>> to divert attention from the real culprit?
>
> Those Vietnam vets who are homeless and on the street are usually there
> because they prefer that life, not because there is no alternative. In
> Texas, a Vietnam vet who is that down on his luck can get plenty of help
> from local VA. The local VA reports indicate that those guys don't want
> the help; they just want a night or two in a nice bed and enough cash to
> score some beer or drugs.
>
> The average Vietnam vet is ahead of his peer group in most economic
> criteria.
>
> I have yet to encounter a "Vietnam vet" on the street--and I see them
> every day--who served in Vietnam.
>
> And I bet that I know more real Vietnam vets than you do. Most of them
> are too polite to address you in the terms that Don T. used. But they
> may well be thinking along similar lines.
>
> ted

I second or third that, Professor Ted. I have run into maybe 10 or 12
guys on the street here in the Nashville area. They usually are here in
the spring, then move on farther north when the weather gets hot, then
farther south when it gets cold. These guys say they are vets, and maybe
they served during the Vietnam War period. At least one of them actually
has his DD214 reduced and laminated like a little ID card. Anyway, they
are on the street because of a whole host of problems, the LEAST of which
was their military service.

Before everyone became so preciously involved in the "homeless" situation,
these guys would have been called "hobos". Of course, I don't deny that
there are homeless Vietnam Vets -- matter of fact my late friend Mary
Bender oscillated between living in cheap motels, homeless shelters,
public assistance facilities and VAMC in-patient facilities for many
years. She was in that condition because of her addiction to alcohol and
her mental illness. I am almost positive that her mental illness with
concomitant alcoholism was due to PTSD -- she was one of a few non-Medical
Corps Wacs who saw real action in Vietnam as an MI Special Agent during
the Tet Offensive. It is possible, of course, that some of the men on the
street are also PTSD victims. PTSD from a variety of sources, not just
combat.

If there were a proper survey done with verification of the causative
agents making the person "a homeless Vietnam war veteran" most of those
homeless guys would be shown to have never served a day in combat.

As for me I am thankful that I have what I have.

Regaards,

Dave

"Paul Hastings" wrote in message
news:24pkr749uhbr8$TYa8.e352$nF@earthlink.net...
>
> You appear to be incredibly confused (especially about YOUR responsibility
in a democracy).
>
> If the war was WRONG, then it was murder, and our soldiers participated in
murder. They ARE murderers. Period.
>
>
> Your grandaughter doesn't know her responsibility in a democracy either.
> Apparently she will be a murderer, too.
>
>
> In other words, we must continue the murder, since our national pride is
far
> more important than lives of Arabs, right?
>
>
> Every military, ragardless how evil, asks for volunteers. Each such
> volunteer is a "patriot".
>
> You have a lot of thinking to do.

You are correct. I have much thinking to do. Wars are fought mostly by the
young. They are commanded by the elders! If the elders err the blame is
upon them.

There are times when even a young soldier knows a war has gone bad. When
they shoot Indian children and mothers because, "Nits make lice" then a
young soldier must make his choice....but many wars are fought that bring
better things and ways into the world. There are times when it is the right
thing to do to stand and fight. In every war there are horrible events.

I can respect one refusing to fight so long as he is willing to die to
maintain his freedom to chose peace over war, but a man that will allow his
nation to be overrun by the HUN will get no respect from me. I can look
from my place in North Texas from sea to shining sea and know that our land
is far too large to allow each of us the liberty to wait until the enemy is
at our door to fight. So the leaders will lead and the young will fight.
Mistakes will be made. I'll not blame the willing warrior for the leaders
mistakes.

Randy R. Cox

Oh for God's sakes, GROW UP!

"©Old Sarge®°" wrote in message
news:btue7r$lt7$0@pita.alt.net...
> THERE WERE NO "BOYS" IN VIETNAM ASSHOLE.
>
> "Mr. X" wrote in message
> news:v1yMb.61661$m83.48699@fed1read01...
> > My goodness, you do speak well!
> > You learned to speak, like, good English when you were in Nam, did'nt
'ya?
> > Did you think that JUST because you were in Nam that you deserve
> > respect? You don't.
> >
> > You deserve respect when you can handle a question... any question...
> > with the same respect for the one asking.
> >
> > Do you think I care what you think of me, just because you have a
> > better command of four letter words.
> >
> > And I insist again...
> >
> > Many of those demonstrators (quite a few were senior relatives of mine),
> > wanted the boys home safe. Many of those soldiers (quite a few were
> > senior relatives of mine), were not spit on by the people AS MUCH as
> > they were spit on by their own government.
> > (Frankly, I would much prefer getting some spit from an airport
protestor,
> > than having the administration cut the veterans administration).
> >
> > And if there is any whitewashing of history going on, it seems to me
being
> > done to cover up the governments inaction which has resulted in so many
> > homeless vets, and so many without health care. Is this "spitting
thing"
> > meant
> > to divert attention from the real culprit?
> >
> >
> > "Don T" wrote in message
> > news:SjqMb.5263$1e.2027@newsread2.news.pas.earthli nk.net...
> > > The simple fuck doesn't seem to know that troops returned to (and left
> > > from) the US on a daily basis during the war. The simple fuck doesn't
> seem
> > > to know that at every place troops returned from Asia like Travis,
> McCord,
> > > and a couple of Navy yards there were dipshits outside the fence just
> > > waiting to throw things at the troop busses and ambulances as they
> ferried
> > > troops. The simple fuck doesn't seem to know that at every civilian
> > airport,
> > > where the returning troops had to fly from to get to their homes or
next
> > > duty station, there were assholes waiting to give the troops a ration
of
> > > shit. Calling them baby-killers and murderers. If you moved in uniform
> > > during the war there was always some pissant limpdicked low-life
> > > motherfucker wanting to fuck with you, simply because you were a
> soldier.
> > > Those same sort of low-life limpdick pissants want to come to the vets
> > > groups to taunt the vets. They know they are quite safe doing so from
> the
> > > anonymity of their armchairs. Fuck them.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Don Thompson
> > >
> > > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is
> > before
> > > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."-
> > > Thucydides
> > >
> > > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom:
> > > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."-
> > > Albert Camus
> > >
> > >
> > > "BigRedWingsFan" wrote in message
> > > news_ydnd3goZ4lh5_dRVn-vw@centurytel.net...
> > > > Added alt.war.vietnam so that some Nam vets can join this revision
of
> > > > history exercise.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Mr. X" wrote in message
> > > > news:NLnMb.61486$m83.22211@fed1read01...
> > > > : OK... this is sure to raise the wrath, but that is not my
> > > > : intent... I truely would hope to divorce myself of my
> > > > : own delusion so please correct me if I am wrong...
> > > > :
> > > > : Yet again, tonight, I saw a news cast in which some Iraq War
> > > > : supporter spoke about how shewill welcome home the troops
> > > > : from the Iraq war... She went on to say: "It will not be like Viet
> > > > : Nam, we will wecome home our boys, we will not spit on them."
> > > > :
> > > > : Now, I admit I was young at the time (I am only 44 today)...
> > > > : But, as I recall... the few troops who were booed, were booed
> > > > : DURING the war. And the war supporters who stayed home
> > > > : were booed even more.
> > > > :
> > > > : I simply do not recall seeing or hearing RETURNING troops
> > > > : booed or spit on...
> > > > :
> > > > : I am aware how, politically, it was the very same government
> > > > : that sent them there which abandoned them.. but not the people...
> > > > : I do not recall masses of returning soldiers being spit on. Maybe
> > > > : a few here or there... but not the numbers that one is led to
> believe
> > > > : by listening to the news.
> > > > :
> > > > : And I really think that the government plays this up in order to
> > induce
> > > > : a patriotic intoxication in the people so as to: 1) obviate its
own
> > > > : abandonment of the Viet Nam Vets; 2) keep a war machine going.
> > > > :
> > > > : OK...
> > > > : Thoughts?
> > > > :
> > > > :
> > > > :
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>