Show tomorrow night about the VA health system

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by reconeil NONSENSE.

Still Oh Sanctimonious Politico, why the: "What the hell have YOU done to help "correct" some of the stuff being mentioned" question? "That's not my job,...man". Besides, The American Taxpayer doesn't pay me a dime. I work and produce something for a living.

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I'll TELL you WHY. You "claim" to be a "veteran", right?? You are well aware of your participation in "debating" the subjects RE: veterans issues & benefits & political affiliations that affect the resulting improvements of such, HUH? So then, using the aforementioned "that's not my job,.....man" you stated is an apparently clear, unmistakable, uncaring attitude and lack of interest which therefore elucidates the contemptible and scornful lack of importance you place on these "subjects"!

How could one surmise otherwise??????

Gimp

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So then Gimpy, and since The American Taxpayer shells-out BILLION$ & BILLION$ & BILLION$ for the theoretically excellent(?) Medical Care YOU foolishly defend,...why not instead ask your buddies at The VA: "What the hell have YOU done to help "correct" some of the stuff being mentioned"?

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A HELL OF A LOT MORE THAN YOU...........APPARENTLY. AND, EVEN WHILE I WAS WORKING FOR 30 ODD YEARS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR AS WELL!

It's called "donations.......volunteer work.........committment to do whatever one can to see the improvements are made and promises kept!

You should try it sometime! It works much better than the repertoire of inconsequential bull$hit! you continually expound upon, ya know? :cd:

Gimp

[locksly]

The VA helps certain people and us other folkes get nothing but lies and missinformation.

[Andy]

I?m not interested in the politics of this nor in the rock throwing that?s going on. Didn?t get a chance to see program but from the posts it seems like it was a horror show about how not to treat humans.

No politics here, just an idea. Give every Veteran who is 100% a top of the line health insurance card for free, all other vets get a card on a sliding scale which would be a lot less than purchasing insurance on the open market. Then let the man or woman pick the doctor or hospital of his or her choice.

When I got very sick with cancer I went to a private hospital. That particular hospital sucked and they never did diagnose me as even having cancer, at the time I was third stage. I changed doctors and hospitals and we figured out what was wrong.

Now catch this! In December of 99 I was given a drug as part of an experiment. In Nov. of 2000 there was a note on the national news that Rytuxan was approved for human consumption in treating Lymphoma (one of the more common cancers caused by Agent Orange). In 01 a guy who works at the local VA oncology ward did not know what Rytuxan was. The VA is using this drug now and with great success but how many people died while waiting for the new and improved stuff? The VA should be at the front of the line, not the back. Treating people badly is not good, letting them die is worst.

In 99 a private room for a day, private nurse and these new drugs cost $14,000. My co-payment was $5.00. Things have changed the cost of the drug has dropped like a rock, it can now be given in 3 to 4 hours (and my co-pay has gone up to $10). Small price to pay. Why not give veterans a choice?

Stay healthy,
Andy

[reconeil]

Regarding donations to assist Veterans in need,...as usual you and all other myopic or tunnel-visioned Officialdom Defenders don't know what you're talking about,...and especially when defending one of the largest and fully Taxpayer Funded Beaurocracies in The United States of America.

Also, I've been donating generously for over 40 years, probably about 10 years before you were even aware that The PVA and The DAV weren't just some toys. Not that "They" have anything whatsoever to do with what seriously ails The VA. Plus, I haven't heard any horror stories or refusals of care about The PVA or DAV anyway.

And besides Gimpy, what-the-hell do such fine and Veteran helpful Charitable Organizations have to do with bailing-out a mismanaged and inept Governmental Beaurocracy, fully funded by The American Taxpayer anyway?

Do America's civilian Welfare Medical Care Providers similarly need help from The United Way or Salvation Army, so that "They" too can provide the best Medical Care available for their charges? I don't think so.

So then,...why should The VA be any different? All charitable donations for Disabled Veterans are meant to help make their living with infirmities and/or hospital stays as best or as pleasant possible. NOT FOR PROPER MEDICATIONS OR PROPER MEDICAL CARE that Service to Country HAS EARNED The American Veteran PERIOD.

Neil

[SuperScout]

What Andy said.

One might ponder the question of the efficacy of the VSO's and the disparity of care around the nation as evidenced by the "show-and-tell" program. Not to mention the disparity of the care itself. A larger question remains about keeping our arms wrapped around programs and solutions that might have worked 20, 30, or 40 years ago, but are no longer valid, or are antiquated today.

Was deeply involved with health care for nearly 30 yrs.As far as I'm concerned this Nation's health care system has been down the toilet for many years (if not from the start) and is unfixable without scraping it and starting over.Would probably take socialization or something approching it.I have always said that if it ain't broke don't fix it.Well,the health care system IS broke and I just gotta wonder how long it's gonna take for folks to realize it and-maybe-do something about it.Far as I'm concerned insurance is part of the problem not the solution.

[colmurph]

Yeah! and it's all Dubya's fault that the system is so screwed up. When I first went to the VA after getting back from Vietnam to establish my disability I was examined by a Doctor who must have been all of 70 years old, so near sighted that he could hardly see, and who reeked of booze. I never went back. That musta been the fault of the Republicans back then even though Johnson was Prez.

[melody1181]

The reason why the VA system os so messed up is that the politicians don't take the time to help it. Both sides are at fault...not one more than the other. It was bad when Clinton got in there and it continues on now and will until the politicians get the special intrest money out of there pockets and actually represent the people there supposed to.

[Gimpy]

Here is what some of the "experts" have to say!

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From the National Adjutant

SLIPPERY SLOPE OF PRIVATIZING VA

Arthur H. Wilson, DAV National Adjutant

With this new Administration and a new Congress in Washington, the DAV faces a number of challenges regarding national policy toward veterans. These challenges prompt us to ensure our government honors America's commitment to veterans.

Over the past several years we have had to fight to get adequate budgets for veterans programs. It will take a lot of hard work by DAV members and our friends to insure the funding picture for veterans will improve.

There is nothing new about veterans programs being a popular target for budget cutters and those who want to shrink the size of government. But we now face a more subtle, yet no less dangerous, threat to veterans health care and the VA benefits delivery system.

There are those in Washington who trash the VA for being too big, inefficient, wasteful, and unresponsive to veterans, criticisms that have been voiced time and again with little regard for the facts.

Such ill-informed rhetoric merely perpetuates many of the myths some rather basic research would soon dispel.

Veterans could get better services in the private sector is one such myth.

In reality the private sector would not want to enroll VA patients, who are often elderly, have multiple disabilities, or are chronically ill. These veterans would pose too great an underwriting risk for private insurers and health maintenance organizations. Many of these men and women simply don't have health insurance or cannot afford to pay for medical care. For them, the VA is their only health care safety net.

The VA also provides a wide range of specialized care to meet the unique needs of veterans. Spinal cord injury medicine, blind rehabilitation, amputee programs, advanced rehabilitation, prosthetics, post traumatic stress disorder treatment, mental health services, and long-term care are at the very heart of the VA health care system. Unquestionably, the VA does much better at providing those kinds of veteran-specific services than the private sector.

In addition, the VA supplies one-third of all care provided for this nation's chronically mentally ill. The VA also is the largest source of health care for AIDS-related disorders. One-third of the nation's homeless are veterans, and the VA has developed broad-reaching programs to meet their psycho-social needs.

But far from acknowledging these realities and successful efforts to improve veterans' access to health care and solve problems plaguing the claims adjudication and benefits delivery system, these nay-sayers would use some veterans' dissatisfaction with the VA as an excuse to dismantle the agency.

The recent trend toward contracting out services traditionally performed by the federal government has won many converts, especially those who stand to profit from it all. True, privatizing some government functions makes good sense, but not when it comes to caring for the nation's sick and disabled veterans.

Last year some members of Congress and key staff posed an over-simplified question: Would veterans rather receive health care from a local hospital instead of traveling some distance to a VA facility?

Convinced what the answer would be, they sought legislation to create a pilot program that would have allowed certain veterans to receive inpatient medical care for nonservice-connected conditions at private-sector hospitals. What's more the VA would then pick up the tab for any out-of-pocket costs not covered by the veteran's own health insurance.

As reported in the last issue of DAV Magazine, the pilot program provision was dropped during House-Senate conference negotiations on a final form of the legislation.

The DAV strenuously objected to the plan because it would have set a dangerous precedent in sending veterans to non-VA health care providers. Under such a plan, federal dollars would be used to subsidize veterans' care outside the VA system. This would have drained much-needed resources from the VA, both in taxpayer dollars the VA would have to pay to private hospitals and the loss of any third-party insurance reimbursements that veterans would otherwise bring to help cover the cost of care provided to all veterans using the VA health care facility.

In those instances VA health care facilities would become little more than local referral centers and would be deprived of the resources needed to sustain the full range of medical services, including the specialized care for which the VA is well known. But aside from that, once the veteran is referred to a private hospital, the VA would have no control over his or her inpatient treatment or any follow-up care and rehabilitation. The VA would be unable to monitor or influence the provision or the quality of the veteran's care.

The DAV strongly opposed another misguided attempt last year to privatize core government services for veterans. Again, lawmakers wisely scrapped a provision that would have entrusted the adjudication of veterans' claims to private contractors.

Had that proposal been approved, the VA could have contracted with claims examiners who would be paid a fee for each rating decision, a practice that is totally at odds with the fundamental purposes of our system of veterans' benefits. Those contract claims examiners, the DAV contends, would not share the same commitment to veterans or the expertise as career VA benefits experts.

Such a contracting proposal cheapens the purpose of disability compensation to veterans by categorizing it as just another claim to be processed. Disability compensation is the government's responsibility because it is repayment for illness and injury these men and women incurred while performing their patriotic duty.

As veterans' advocates, the DAV firmly believes the VA must use its resources to maintain the base of its health care and benefits delivery systems. The traditional delivery of VA services, which certainly could benefit from improvement in the areas of timeliness and quality, has over the course of many years generally served veterans well. That is primarily because those services are provided by thousands of dedicated professionals, who are accountable for the quality of those services, no matter where or when they are provided. The VA has begun to solve many of the problems that have plagued the claims adjudication system, a fact that some have chosen to ignore in calling for contracting out veterans' benefits.

Those in government who oversee and implement public programs that serve America's veterans must provide the resources and authority necessary to carry out those programs. And the best way to ensure that is for the VA to continue as a distinct entity, directly accountable to the American people for providing top-quality, cost-effective health care and benefits to veterans. Anything less than that would be to abandon this nation's sacred obligation to veterans.

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CONGRESSIONAL STUDY

Project Number: SDR 97-001-1
Project Title: Evaluating Cost for Veterans Health Care
Principal Investigator: Gary N. Nugent, MHCA, Ann Hendricks, PhD

Background/Rationale:

Vouchering VA health care is frequently offered by critics as a means to reduce U.S. health spending and improve quality and access for veterans. This project asked the question, ? What would it cost to provide the same healthcare benefits as the VA using Medicare as the surrogate payor?? Implications are important to policymakers interested in national health care expenditures.

Objectives:

To identify and quantify all VA services and price them under a Medicare or surrogate private payment strategy. The hypothesis is that total VA budgets are less than the expenditures for those same services under a payment system similar to Medicare or in private plans.

Methods:


All patient care at six VA medical centers, provided October 1, 1998 through September 30, 1999 was processed according to approved payment criteria and compared to costs in VA?s CDR, reconfigured to reflect Medicare cost categories and subsequent average private costs.

Findings/Results:

The market value for VA services at the study sites in FY 1999 was $974 million, 21% greater than VA?s cost of $806 million.

Nationally, VA?s costs were $18.8 billion; estimated market value, $22 billion. The greatest estimated savings were for pharmacy and special programs.

Expanding patients? access to care by privatizing VA hospitals would cost U.S. taxpayers at least 20% more.

The estimate is conservative because .VA provides a richer benefit package at lower cost than U.S. veterans could get under current Medicare regulations if VA were to buy in to its program.

U.S. medical education would also have to be restructured to accommodate the 19% of medical residents trained in VA facilities.

Coding accuracy at the six VA sites, for billing purposes, was equivalent to private sector in inpatient, outpatient and nursing home care.

Impact:

Findings and results have been incorporated into national information technology initiatives. Comparison of costs allows policymakers to examine services with the greatest potential public liability under a voucher system. Overall results apply to evaluations of other public health care systems.

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[Andy]

The first vet benefits bill was passed in 1638 by the Pilgrims who were at war with the Pequot Indians. Anyone disabled it the fighting would be taken care of by the colony. A very good idea. After the Civil War each state took care of it?s own vets, I think it was Alabama who spent a third of their budget one year in the late 1860s on veterans. In 1917 the Disability Insurance act was passed for all American vets. Disability insurance, a damn good idea. But back then no one else had disability insurance and doctors and hospitals didn?t want to be bothered with all the paperwork. Healthy insurance is a lot more common today.

Our current VA system has only been around since 1930. It isn?t or shouldn?t be written in stone. Arthur Wilson may be an expert but of course he has a hard line agenda. I got a bit wired when I read him saying the VA does a better job in many specialized areas. Please check out my post again regarding the VA standing at the back of the line when it comes to cancer. Even if we look at the one on one care a patient gets, if that care is better than at private hospitals which it is not, if the doctors are ?bleeding with leaches? a person who has cancer, the patient is going to get dead quicker than he should.

Mr. Wilson says 1/3 of all chronically mentally ill are taken care of by the VA. The VA hospital in Leeds Mass is just a few miles from here and they specialize in care for mental problems. Their care consists of loading these people up with drugs to the point they have no idea who or what they are. At only 30% they gave me some meds that caused me to walk into walls and forget what I was doing while tying my boots. That crap got flushed down the toilet really quick. I see a private doctor.

Gimp my thought was not to tell some private insurer to take on 300,000 vets and another insurer to take on another 300,000 etc. It was to give us a medical card paid in total or in large part by the federal government. A card that would carry as much clout as the best of all HMO?s.

Obviously, you have had some good experiences with VA hospitals, God bless you, you know I mean that. Many of us have had bad experiences. I?m not sure what private hospitals are like in your area. I know that we have some of the finest in the world. To have access to those hospitals I pay something like $360 a month for health insurance. Having no trust whatsoever in the VA system, it would be nice for the government to offer an option.

Stay healthy,
Andy