Karl Rove headed to Prison???

[Seascamp]

Just like the deal when Monica was playing sweet music on the Oval Office skin flute, this whole hair ball is taking on a life all it?s own. Playing footsie, pinch n? tickle and kissy-face-who with the media, especially the Gray Lady and Time Mag, only guarantees someone is going to get screwed and it?s a crap shoot as to who or whom and by who or whom is also up for grabs. I expect the investigation will proceed on and after due process it?s an outside possibility that someone (s) will get a burning bad of dog shit placed in their lap if there has been some wrong doing. In the interim, the comic matinee will continue and the torch-bearing village elders will be frantically racing around with stake and hammer in hand hooting and hollering ?kill the monster, kill the monster?.

Along the way something popped out that is really tell-tale, scary as all hell and something of possible substance for a change. Really now, am I to believe that a high level CIA employee was instrumental in hiring an unqualified direct family member to go off on a highly technical CIA paid-for fact-finding mission to Africa?
And this unqualified person also is cited as having ownership of known political partisanship and apparently an ox to gore at the time of hiring and subsequent fact finding mission. Then at the end of the day the CIA Director dismissed the findings as more or less rubbish. And these guys are the Lions at the gate? Ay yi yi, this scenario makes my eyes hurt and gives me the lingering thought that maybe I should buy some burlap sacks and fill me some sand bags.

Scamp

[Gimpy]

Is it relevant that Wilson's wife might have suggested him for the unpaid gig. Not really.

What matters is that Wilson returned with the right answer and dutifully reported his conclusions. (In March 2003, the International Atomic Energy Agency concluded that the documents upon which the Niger allegation was based were amateurish forgeries.) His wife's role--if she had one--has nothing but anecdotal value.

Wilson was invited out to meet with a group of people at the CIA who were interested in the subject of Nigers role in Iraq obtaining yellowcake. He knew none of them more than casually. They asked him about his understanding of the uranium business and his familiarity with the people in the Niger government at the time. And then they asked, 'what would you do?' A detailed conversation was begun--what he would be looking for, etc.

Nothing was concluded at that time. He told them if they wanted him to go to Niger he would clear his schedule. Then they got back to him and said, 'yes, we want you to go.'" This is all documented by none other than former CIA director George Tenet.

In Niger, he met with past and present government officials and persons involved in the uranium business and with their assistance concluded the documents mentioned by the British and other sources were in fact FORGED DOCUMENTS and were in fact proven to be by the International Atomic Energy Agency!

Karl Rove is the kind of ethically unconstrained guy Bush has wanted around when the going gets tough -- when the case Bush is making is unconvincing on its own merits, when he needs to divert attention from himself by using a stunning attack on somebody else.

That's been the hallmark of Rove's career -- and Bush's. After Bush lost the 2000 New Hampshire primary to John McCain, Rove directed a slanderous campaign in South Carolina that knocked McCain virtually out of the race with a barrage of fabrications about the personal lives of the senator and his family.

Once Bush decided to invade Iraq, and particularly after the weapons of mass destruction failed to materialize, Rove orchestrated the campaign to depict the war's critics as terrorist sympathizers for Gods sake! Just a few weeks ago Rove told a right-wing audience that "liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

Get in Bush's way and Rove turns you or your loved ones into the scum of the earth.

You can go pretty far with this kind of modus operandi, particularly if the press is complaisant. Sometimes, you can go too far, as Joe McCarthy discovered when he leveled his woozy allegations against the Army in the 1950's. As Karl Rove is discovering, with ever more true indications that in his zeal to bring down Wilson he went after a CIA agent, too.

Even though we can be fairly certain it was Rove who disclosed Plame's identity, (whether he used her actual name or NOT), we can be damned sure that if he did, it was all in a day's work on behalf of George W. Bush.

And that is, in and of itself a "crime" in MY book!

[SuperScout]

From the beginning, Joe Wilson has lied like a cheap rug. He insisted that it was the VP who wanted him to make the trip, when in fact, the VP had never heard of him, never asked him to go, never requested the trip from anyone. It was his wife who lobbied on his behalf from the get-go for Joe to make the trip. This is not anecdotal, but a pivotal point from which the lies, the deception, and the false trip report all emanates. Then Joe lies about the yellow cake, when later facts are revealed that someone from SH's inner circle did in fact make substantial inquires about said purchases. Joe lies again by maintaining he conducted a thorough and exhaustive search for relevant data on his boondoggle trip, when in fact, his report was relegated to the bin of useless material by the CIA higher-up who was pressured to send him on the trip by his wife. Unpaid gig, my foot! We paid for his entire trip - do you possibly think........ let me rephrase that........ you can't possibly think........ let me rephrase that....... not even a cucumber could believe that Joe paid his own way and back for this boondoggle.

Karl Rove has been an ultra savvy advisor for the President, long before the President became the President. And being a very brilliant person, nobody, save a cucumber, could even begin to entertain the idea that Rove would commit any act that would (1) embarrass his boss, to whom he has great loyalty, (2) taint himself with any event that would deflect attention from doing his job, or (3) would be remotely illegal.

Joe Wilson has been discredited as a partisan whiner who can't quite understand that his statements have been contradicted by sworn testimony given in the 9-11 Commission hearings, and joins that other paragon of failed bookwriting, Richard Clarke.

You can continue to whine and snivel about the WMD, as if that was the sole reason for invading Iraq, but the facts prove otherwise. The WMD has become most overused, least effective talking point of the Democrat National Committee, indicative of least effective members of the Left.

[Seascamp]

So with all the technical talent, business talent and African savvy the CIA ostensibly have available to them, Wilson is chosen to go run a fact finding deal in Africa on behalf of the CIA? And at that very late date, the CIA had no knowledge of Saddam?s global purchasing activities or African purchasing activities and then, at long last, a conflict of interest political activist/ techno rookie is sent to get the real story? PU.

And of course Tenant was in on the play, that?s obvious by inspection. He would never, never, consider using the highly trained and knowledgeable CIA African desk or station to run such a pre-established fools errand. Or am I to suppose there was no African desk or station at the time and we?re totally blind, deaf and dumb in Africa and have no deployable assets. And like an African businessman or Gvt. person is going to tell a high profile person like Wilson anything that will put their butox in the cross hairs of anybody's hit man? I think not.

Scamp

[Gimpy]

I am not predisposed to feel Rove's pain, assuming he has any feeling at all. But I do have to concede that he probably did not set out to expose a CIA operative. (That make you happy Super?)

George W. Bush said those "16 words" regarding "yellow cake" in his 2003 State of the Union address. It was supposed to be additional evidence that Iraq had, in the memorable word uttered by Vice President Cheney, "reconstituted" its nuclear weapons program. That, of course, is the real smoking gun in this matter -- the crime in what should now be considered misinformation at its most terrible.

The inspired exaggeration of the case against Iraq, the hype about weapons of mass destruction and al Qaeda's links to Hussein, makes everything else pale in comparison. It was to protect those lies, those exaggerations, that incredible train wreck of incompetence, ideologically driven stupidity that everything else stems from.

Karl Rove gets people pissed off because he has been so viciously partisan, and so the opportunity to hold him accountable for putting his partisanship ahead of his patriotism is very appropiate in my view.

Even if Rove didn't violate the actual letter of the law, proof that he disclosed Plame's identity should damage his effectiveness in public life and will tarnish the president forever by tolerating it.

It has been a bad few days at the White House, unable to defend its own on-the-record statements, unable to explain why what it repeatedly said with such certainty, 21 months ago, now would appear so demonstrably false.

Which should really be no surprise since they've been doing it frequently in the past 5 years!

Every citizen in this country should review Whitehouse Press Secretary Scott McClellan's exchange with the reporters this week to see how he and this White House do business. After what transpired, no one in this country should take Scott McClellan's word at face value (if they ever did).

Even more serious, the larger issue is not his -- and Bush's -- credibility, but the wrongdoing committed by a senior White House official and the apparent lack of a response from the White House. . . .It SHOULD prove to everyone the depth of deception and depravity they resort to in order to achieve their goals!

For a White House official to be so reckless as to reveal, even unknowingly, the identity of an undercover CIA employee is a firing offense. Period. That Karl Rove did so for the purpose of smearing a political enemy and cover up suspicious intentions makes the whole episode even more distasteful and downright despicable.

The bottom line is this .................To try to conceal the fact that the president had lied to the American public about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, Karl Rove attempted to destroy the credibility of two national security veterans and send an intimidating message to any other government officials preparing to publicly tell the truth.

At most, he should go to jail for that............at least, the President should immediately fire him and send his whiney, sniveling dishonorable ass back to Texas!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SuperScout The WMD has become most overused, least effective talking point of the Democrat National Committee, indicative of least effective members of the Left .

Not according to ALL the latest national polls!

Bushs approval rating on the War with Iraq @ 29%!

That indicates there are SEVENTY-ONE PERCENT (71%) of the public who may be in somewhat disagreement with your assesment there SuperSleuth!

[SuperScout]

Polls are like the Easter bunny - some people believe in them, other don't.

And now ol' tired Joe is peddling the line, "Well even if a crime wasn't committed, Rove should still be punished." With warped logic like that, no wonder he never got any traction with his cheesy book!

Notice how all the left wing blather merchants are carefully avoiding the elements of what would constitute the commission of the crime in question. Plame wasn't on a covert mission - she was warming a desk chair over at The Company. They know beyond a shadow of doubt that the elements just aren't there, but does that stop their whining and wailing? We should be so lucky!

[Seascamp]

In the way of things, people can be hand-picked to find things out and then people can be hand-picked to specifically not find things out or, variously, be pre-loaded with questions not to ask. Wilson being tasked to do fact-finding about an issue of global interest and controversy is thin, pathetic and beyond the pall of credibility. So, Wilson engages some Kenyan official and asks, ?hey, you guys selling yellow cake to Saddam like Bush says?. Now let me guess what that Official is going to say on or off the record. Kenya is going to do what every other Country does; Wilson would be shown exactly what they want him to see or hear, or if compatible with notional interests, hear what he wants to hear. It?s called diplomacy and there is no frigging way Kenya would want to be seen as a willing supplier of Saddam in the face of all the controversy.
So now Wilson wants to jack around with security issues, etc. and throw up a bunch of fluff and feathers about being the injured party? Ay sus, makes my head hurt. And sure the CIA hires consultants all the time; I absolutely know this to be true. But hiring a high profile political hack with conflict of interest baggage to go render a judgment on a complex and politically charged issue just sets off all manner of trip flares and tons of WTF, over.

Scamp

[melody1181]

I am almost willing to bet Rove gets off IF he did something wrong.

I think for the most part nowDems are going to try to get back at the Republicans for Clintons whole "thing". Its like a little fight in the playgrounds sand box. Or a pissingcontest.Just my opinion.

[Gimpy]

like scandals like this abound under Republican political leadership, ya know.

This scandal didn't begin, as Watergate did, simply with dirty tricks and spying on the political opposition. It began with the sending of American men and women to war in Iraq .

Specifically, it began with the former ambassador Joseph Wilson's July 6, 2003, account on the Times Op-Ed page (and in concurrent broadcast appearances) of his 2002 C.I.A. mission to Africa to determine whether Saddam Hussein had struck a deal in Niger for uranium that might be used in nuclear weapons.

Mr. Wilson concluded that there was no such deal (As did the CIA and The International Atomic Energy Agency). But his dramatic Op-Ed piece got everyone's attention: a government insider with firsthand knowledge had stepped out of the shadows of anonymity to expose the administration's game authoritatively and on the record.

He had made palpable what Bush critics increasingly suspected, writing that "some of the intelligence related to Iraq's nuclear weapons program was twisted to exaggerate the Iraqi threat."

Up until that point, the White House had consistently stuck by the 16 incendiary words in President Bush's January 2003 State of the Union address: "The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." The administration had ignored all reports, not just Mr. Wilson's, that this information might well be bogus.

But it still didn't retract Mr. Bush's fiction some five weeks after the State of the Union, when Mohamed ElBaradei, the director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, announced that the uranium claim was based on fake documents. Instead, we marched on to war in Iraq days later.

It was not until Mr. Wilson's public recounting of his African mission more than five months after the State of the Union that CIA Director George Tenet at long last released his hasty statement (on a Friday evening, just after the Wilson Op-Ed piece) conceding that "[ these 16 words should never have been included in the text written for the president."

Attacking Joe Wilson is an ugly bit of skullduggery, too. He served this nation with brave distinction as acting ambassador in Baghdad during the months before the first Gulf War. He protected American lives and interests at considerable risk to his own safety and earned a grateful commendation from the first President Bush.

Mr. Wilson knew that the President Bushs' assertion about yellow-cake was wrong --(as the International Atomic Energy Agency reported-- and the administration knew likewise, and the CIA later reported )-- and said so in that article for The New York Times.

The Niger uranium was hardly the only dubious evidence testifying to Saddam's supposed nuclear threat in the run-up to war. Judy Miller herself was one of two reporters responsible for a notoriously credulous front-page Times story about aluminum tubes that enabled the administration's propaganda campaign to trump up Saddam's W.M.D. arsenal.

But red-hot uranium was convincing, and it was Mr. Wilson's flat refutation of it that drove administration officials to seek their revenge: they told the columnist Robert Novak that Mr. Wilson had secured his African mission through the nepotistic intervention of his wife, a covert C.I.A. officer whom they outed.

The pettiness of this retribution shows just how successfully Mr. Wilson hit the administration's jugular vein: his revelation threatened the legitimacy of the war on which both the president's reputation and re-election campaign had been staked.

The email from Matt Cooper to his bureau chief demonstrates that Rove committed a firing offense. He leaked national security information as part of a fierce campaign to undermine Wilson, who had criticized the White House on the war on Iraq. Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, defends his client by arguing that Rove never revealed the name of Valerie Plame/Wilson to Cooper and that he only referred to her as Wilson's wife. This is not much of a defense.

If Cooper or any other journalist had written that "Wilson's wife works for the CIA"--without mentioning her name--such a disclosure could have been expected to have the same effect as if her name had been used: Valerie Wilson would have been compromised, her anti-WMD work placed at risk, and national security potentially harmed.

Either Rove knew that he was revealing an undercover officer to a reporter or he was identifying a CIA officer without bothering to check on her status and without considering the consequences of outing her. Take your pick: in both scenarios Rove is acting in a reckless and cavalier fashion, ignoring the national security interests of the nation to score a political point against a policy foe.

This ought to get Rove fired--And hopefully sent to jail!

All along, the bedrock of Karl Rove's political 'philosophy' has been his conviction that propaganda will always trump reality -----as long as the desired message is consistent with existing popular myths and prejudices.

And his preferred tool for meshing those two has always been the rightwingnuts ultra-conservative base and the enormous gravitational pull it exerts on the weak-minded or uninformed middle. And it seems to still be working.............at least on those folks.

But 'things'........... they are-a changing!