Torture Iraq prisoners

[reeb]

This POST has no way gotten out of hand.

There has been alot of replies to this and more to come, and each and every one voices their own opinion.

This act was dastardly, but then again, it want murder like the ones with the civies bieng killed and drug through the streets.

Now that was COWARDLY, not just showing some Iraquis in their birthday suits.

I posted not to long ago, about " if there are any formal POWs " on this site, and didnt get a reply.

Let them tell there story and see what you thin then..........

My OWN PERSONNEL VIEW, not yours, but I think this situation should go all the way to the top.

Really surprising what a couple of handfuls of people can start.....

read this and then go from here, but this post isnt done yet,

The US is placing these people in a legal limbo. They deny that they are Prisoners of War (POWs), while at the same time failing to provide them with the most basic protections of any person deprived of their liberty," Amnesty International said. "The US has obligations under international law to ensure respect for the human rights of all persons in their custody -- including the duty to treat them humanely and ensure that they have recourse to fair proceedings, regardless of the nature of the crimes they are suspected of having committed."

If yu go to pow on google and dig it up , then you will learn alot more than what meets the eye,

[SparrowHawk62]

Originally posted by little sparrow "I'm stunned to find a non-vet criticizing Vets, some who have gone through combat" -Sparrowhawk-
Sparrowhawk?
The links are just a short way of ?givin' you a heads up that not everyone agrees with your definition of what a Vet is.
And I personally disagree with your narrow view of combat.?I know some that would trade a bullet for the cancer that is?eatin' them all the way to the bone.?Some pretty tough battles have been fought on cancer wards, and cardiac care units, and well you get the picture.
I'm sorry to take the thread off topic but I found it necessary to clear up a small bit of misinformation. Carry on.
Just my thoughts.
Arrow>>>>>>>>

Oh, Madam you now you are a mind reader? My definition of a Veteran: a person who has ACTUALLY SERVED in the Military forces of his or her country. (What ever the country!) One who has fulfilled his/her duties and enlistment/appointment honorably.
No, witting a letter to some one in Boot Camp does not extend your time in the service if he/she went in before you. Being a wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend and not being in the military while your opposite was/is doesn't make you a Veteran.
While I may have a narrow view of "combat" there is but one definition that defines it for me. A person who had engaged an enemy while serving in the armed forces.
And so there was no "misinformation" I typed this slowly so even people in texas could understand it.

Stand by on Cat two!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by MORTARDUDE Not taking prisoners works out great until YOUR hands are in the air. There are those on here who have been very close to being captured. Everyone in war has decisions to make. Many times the enemy we face chooses to kill or torture our soldiers after they surrender. I would hope we could behave better than that.

Larry

No sounder statement has ever been made.

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SuperScout Maybe I'm just an old-fashioned kinda guy, but I view the POW issue thusly: what could we possibly learn from a POW that might be useful in saving my warriors' lives? Speaking from experience, my platoon took 33 POW's one day, and what I learned later on from a friend in MI was that they revealed a treasure-trove of information that ultimately was used to pinpoint and destroy a regimental headquarters and several dozen support pukes in the area.

Admittedly, I've not yet had the pleasure of combatting a Islamist fanatic, and can't say how I would react in that given scenario. I suspect that my attitude would not change much. As far as interrogation techniques is concerned, I would hope that we have progressed beyond the Spanish Inquisition methodology to extract the information that we suspect the POW's have; I have seen reams of info pouring out of folks and they never had a hand laid on them, just a subtle deprivation of sleep, extra lighting, and a good-guy/bad-guy approach that worked wonders.

Regarding the miscreants who were photographed with the prisoners: if I were on their court martial board, they would get the maximum punishment, and the trial would be televised to the Arab world as an object lesson in how idiots are dealt with in a democracy. To even lamely attempt to excuse this aberrant behavior as "I was just following orders," is to condone, belatedly, the aberrant behavior at Auschwitz and other butcher shops. Every soldier, part-time, full-time, or old-time, knows that illegal orders are not to be obeyed, and that a concomitant obligation exists to report the illegal order.

At a very personal level, the actions of these low-life degenerates has jeopardized the safety and life of one of my very family, and his fellow warriors, and that is inexcusable. Woe be unto that cretin should our paths ever cross.

Super........................Once again we are on "common ground"

I am in total agreement with you my friend!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by exlrrp

Brice
Well I have to say I agree with you almost completely here and I have to ask the others that think we should take no prisoners and it doesn't matter how we treat the ones we do just one simple question: Are you out of yr fcking minds?? People like you are the ones who lose the wars. Prisoner intelligence given willingly is the most valuable of all in most aspects and CERTAINLY to the man on the ground
This is exactly how you win all the battles and still lose the war, mistreating people publically, whiole saying youre doing it all for them.. Winnig hearts and minds became a big joke for us in Vietnam but it was never more important than here in Iraq. The whole point of the war is to get the Iraqis on our side
I think this whole thing was an aberration--like My Lai--but if it is not handled immediately, strictly, it could wind up defining our efforts--just like My LAi. The deed itself may have been an aberration but the coverup was not--just like My Lai. This is the endemic part that needs addressing, and heads should roll all the way to the top for it.
Again, like Vietnam, there is no military solution to this war, the npeace will come from political solution acceptable to all.
We are fighting battles not just militarily but PR wise too with the PR battle being the most important.
If our eforts are to succed at all, we must convionce them that our way of life is superior to life under Saddam's regime. Whoever thought up using Saddam's most dread prison to store prisoners should have been shot.

James

James, once again we are in complete agreement!

Thanks for your insight!

[Gimpy]

Originally posted by SparrowHawk62

Oh, Madam you now you are a mind reader? My definition of a Veteran: a person who has ACTUALLY SERVED in the Military forces of his or her country. (What ever the country!) One who has fulfilled his/her duties and enlistment/appointment honorably.
No, witting a letter to some one in Boot Camp does not extend your time in the service if he/she went in before you. Being a wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend and not being in the military while your opposite was/is doesn't make you a Veteran.
While I may have a narrow view of "combat" there is but one definition that defines it for me. A person who had engaged an enemy while serving in the armed forces.
And so there was no "misinformation" I typed this slowly so even people in texas could understand it.

Stand by on Cat two!

I can understand your frustration!

Thanks for YOUR "insights" as well!

[39mto39g]

A bit hipacridical,
You don't want to "exicute" 20 prisoners but then you write "Bomb the snot out of every major city the enemy has"
And this would kill , No one??

Do every thing ya can to keep out of a war, but, once you delair war, Leave your nice at home.
Start at one end of there country and kill every thing that moves until they say "I quit" then make them pay for it and leave. End of War.
And---- the next one that thinks about having a war with us--wont.

And --- Do Not worry yourself about any one from Texas, Than can take care of themselfs, Just test one.

Ron

[Arrow]

Sparrowhawk,

Iagree completely with your definitions. And yet I will not give up my place at the table or an honorary title of vet granted to me by more than one of my brothers because you and others on this board are uncomfortable with it.

There I go again.Standin' up and talkin' back. Dang me, Dang me they ought take a rope and hang me, hangmefrom the highest tree,ohhoney would ya weep for me...

Arrow>>>>>>>>>

[melody1181]

Everyone needs to sit back and take a breather.

As for Arrow....She deserves the title. While it may not be "war" combat there are different kinds. Myself, I just witnessed my uncle and the affect it had on him and how it eventually killed him. No my family, besides a few, never left these shores but we have all dealt with the results. Not the same no, but still hard.

Back to the torture stuff. I still think the people should be punished just for being dumb enough to take pictures....should of never done it. I don't think it is right what they did, because what they've done is made it more dangerous for alot of the other guys just doing there job right.

[reeb]

1181, You have a good point and made very plain ( dumb enough to take pictures )

Little Sparrow: You are stating your opinion, and very well worth the addition to this post.

Ron Ron Ron, What can anyone say beside the fact that you very first thought on this was " Take no Prisoners".. Dude, THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO....... BTW ( me and you are going to war with each other with our spelling )......NO RESERVES !!!!!!

Like I said earlier, this post is not done yet. VENT VENT VENT HERE !!!!!!!!!