"SWIFTEE" caught in a LIE!

[Gimpy]

The REAL TRUTH about these "BUMS" is starting to surface!

Their despicable lies and deception will be the downfall of their attempts to discredit John Kerry!

#####

Swiftee Caught in a Baldfaced Lie!


Records Counter a Critic of Kerry

Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire

By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, August 19, 2004; Page A01


Newly obtained military records of one of Sen. John F. Kerry's most vocal critics, who has accused the Democratic presidential candidate of lying about his wartime record to win medals, contradict his own version of events.

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow , who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records , portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

As one of five Swift boat skippers who led the raid up the Bay Hap River, Thurlow was a direct participant in the disputed events. He is also a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth , a public advocacy group of Vietnam veterans dismayed by Kerry's subsequent antiwar activities, which has aired a controversial television advertisement attacking Kerry's war record.

In interviews and written reminiscences, Kerry has described how his 50-foot patrol boat came under fire from the banks of the Bay Hap after a mine explosion disabled another U.S. patrol boat. According to Kerry and members of his crew, the firing continued as an injured Kerry leaned over the bow of his ship to rescue a Special Forces officer who was blown overboard in a second explosion.

Last month, Thurlow swore in an affidavit that Kerry was "not under fire" when he fished Lt. James Rassmann out of the water. He described Kerry's Bronze Star citation, which says that all units involved came under "small arms and automatic weapons fire," as "totally fabricated."

"I never heard a shot," Thurlow said in his affidavit, which was released by Swift Boats Veterans for Truth. The group claims the backing of more than 250 Vietnam veterans, including a majority of Kerry's fellow boat commanders.

A document recommending Thurlow for the Bronze Star noted that all his actions "took place under constant enemy small arms fire which LTJG THURLOW completely ignored in providing immediate assistance" to the disabled boat and its crew. The citation states that all other units in the flotilla also came under fire.

In a telephone interview Tuesday evening after he attended a Swift Boat Veterans strategy session in an Arlington hotel, Thurlow said he lost his Bronze Star citation more than 20 years ago. He said he was unwilling to authorize release of his military records because he feared attempts by the Kerry campaign to discredit him and other anti-Kerry veterans.

(No Shit Sherlock!.......That's what you do to folks....DISCREDIT THEM....when they tell UNTRUTHS and LIE about their "motives" for trashing honorable Veterans like Kerry....Editorial comment by Gimpy)

The Post filed an independent request for the documents with the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis, which is the central repository for veterans' records. The documents were faxed to The Post by officials at the records center yesterday.
Thurlow and other anti-Kerry veterans have repeatedly alleged that Kerry was the author of an after-action report that described how his boat came under enemy fire. Kerry campaign researchers dispute that assertion, and there is no convincing documentary evidence to settle the argument. As the senior skipper in the flotilla, Thurlow might have been expected to write the after-action report for March 13.

For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.
Thurlow, an oil industry worker and former teacher in Kansas, said he was angry with Kerry for his antiwar activities on his return to the United States and particularly Kerry's claim before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee that U.S. troops in Vietnam had committed war crimes "with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command."

" 'Upset' is too mild a word," said Thurlow, a registered Republican, of his reaction to Kerry then. "He did it strictly for his own personal political gain, and it directly affected every single one of us as we were trying to put our lives together."

Two other Swift boat skippers who were direct participants in the March 13, 1969, mine explosion on the Bay Hap, Jack Chenoweth and Richard Pees, have said they do not remember coming under "enemy fire." A fourth commander, Don Droz, who was one of Kerry's closest friends in Vietnam, was killed in action a month later.

The incident featured prominently in an anti-Kerry television ad produced by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth earlier this month. "John Kerry lied to get his Bronze Star," says Van Odell, a gunner on PCF-23, one of the boats that came to the rescue of the stricken boat. "I know. I was there."

The Bronze Star controversy is also a major focus of an anti-Kerry book by John E. O'Neill, "Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry," which will hit No. 2 on The Post's bestseller list this weekend. The book accuses Kerry of "fleeing the scene" and lying repeatedly about his role.

Members of Kerry's crew have come to his defense, as has Rassmann, the Special Forces officer whom he fished from the river. Rassmann says he has vivid memories of being fired at from both banks after he fell into the river and as Kerry came to his rescue. The two had an emotional reunion on the eve of the Iowa Democratic caucuses in January, an event that some political analysts believe helped swing votes to Kerry at a crucial time.

The Bronze Star recommendations for both Kerry and Thurlow were signed by Lt. Cmdr. George M. Elliott, who received reports on the incident from his base in the Gulf of Thailand. Elliott is a supporter of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth and has questioned Kerry's actions in Vietnam. But he has refused repeated requests for an interview after issuing conflicting statements to the Boston Globe about whether Kerry deserved a Silver Star. He was unreachable last night.

Money has poured into Swift Boat Veterans for Truth since the group launched its television advertisement attacking Kerry earlier this month. According to O'Neill, the group has received more than $450,000 over the past two weeks, mainly in small contributions. The Dallas Morning News reported yesterday that the organization has also received two $100,000 checks from Houston home builder Bob Perry, who backed George W. Bush's campaigns for Texas governor and for president.

Bush campaign officials have said they have no connection to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which is not permitted to coordinate its activities with a presidential campaign under federal election law.

######

No connection MY A$$!

[David]

For much of the episode, Kerry was not in a position to know firsthand what was happening on Thurlow's boat, as Kerry's boat had sped down the river after the mine exploded under another boat. He later returned to provide assistance to the stricken boat.

Kinda of like he was not in a firsthand position to know much of anything about the war after bailing out for the states after only 4 months and only 1 month as an actual commander

[Arrow]

Larry Thurlow's Answer toabove Washington Post Article:

Thanks and credit to Swiftvets.com:


For Immediate Release
August 19, 2004

Statement By Swift Boat Veterans for Truth Member Larry Thurlow

I am convinced that the language used in my citation for a Bronze Star was
language taken directly from John Kerry's report which falsely described the
action on the Bay Hap River as action that saw small arms fire and automatic
weapons fire from both banks of the river.

To this day, I can say without a doubt in my mind, along with other accounts
from my shipmates-there was no hostile enemy fire directed at my boat or at
any of the five boats operating on the river that day.

I submitted no paperwork for a medal nor did I file an after action report
describing the incident. To my knowledge, John Kerry was the only officer
who filed a report describing his version of the incidents that occurred on
the river that day.

It was not until I had left the Navy-approximately three months after I left
the service-that I was notified that I was to receive a citation for my
actions on that day.

I believed then as I believe now that I received my Bronze Star for my
efforts to rescue the injured crewmen from swift boat number three and to
conduct damage control to prevent that boat from sinking.
My boat and several other swift boats went to the aid of our fellow swift
boat sailors whose craft was adrift and taking on water. We provided
immediate rescue and damage control to prevent boat three from sinking and
to offer immediate protection and comfort to the injured crew.

After the mine exploded, leaving swift boat three dead in the water, John
Kerry's boat, which was on the opposite side of the river, fled the scene.
US Army Special Forces officer Jim Rassmann, who was on Kerry's boat at the
time, fell off the boat and into the water. Kerry's boat returned several
minutes later-under no hail of enemy gunfire-to retrieve Rassmann from the
river only seconds before another boat was going to pick him up.

Kerry campaign spokespersons have conflicting accounts of this incident-the
latest one being that Kerry's boat did leave but only briefly and returned
under withering enemy fire to rescue Mr. Rassmann. However, none of the
other boats on the river that day reported enemy fire nor was anyone wounded
by small arms action. The only damage on that day was done to boat three-a
result of the underwater mine. None of the other swift boats received damage
from enemy gunfire.

And in a new development, Kerry campaign officials are now finally
acknowledging that while Kerry's boat left the scene, none of the other
boats on the river ever left the damaged swift boat. This is a direct
contradiction to previous accounts made by Jim Rassmann in the Oregonian
newspaper and a direct contradiction to the "No Man Left Behind" theme
during the Democratic National Convention.

These ever changing accounts of the Bay Hap River incident by Kerry campaign
officials leave me asking one question. If no one ever left the scene of the
Bay Hap River incident, how could anyone be left behind?

[Packo]

Thanks Sis,

Interesting.

Packo

[Arrow]

You're welcome Packy!

Thank you and credit to swiftvets.com it is loading very slowly because of so many hits from other sites so rather than but up the link here here is a press release in full from another Navy Veteran misquoted by Michael Dobbs.

Statement by Navy Veteran Jack Chenoweth, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, in Rebuttal to Michael Dobbs, Washington Post, August 19, 2004.

I am outraged by Michael Dobbs' attack on Larry Thurlow and his Bronze Star award.

The reason the citation mentions "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" is because it is based on the "spot report" that John Kerry submitted.

Any and all awards presented for actions on 13 March 1969 would be similar, if not verbatim, regarding enemy gunfire, because the only information submitted to the chain of command was falsified by Kerry.

Mr. Dobbs also grossly mischaracterizes my statements, and probably those of Richard Pees as well, when he states that we "do not remember coming under 'enemy fire.'" He needs to go back and review his notes. I emphatically told him - as I've told countless other reporters -- that there was no enemy gunfire from either bank at any time, that the only event of the day was the mine under PCF 3, followed by suppression fire from all of our boats.

Mr. Dobbs is entitled to take whatever position he wants on the issue of who is telling the truth, but it is not right for him to mischaracterize my remarks so that it looks like I didn't "remember" whether there was enemy fire. I remember vividly.

There was no enemy fire.

[Arrow]

To his credit Larry Thurlow stated he would consider his Bronze Star fraudulent if it were awarded for taking enemy fire.

[reconeil]

You-gotsta-love Gimpy's obvious words and logic, even with his thread's heading/title: "Swiftee (1 out of about 2-300 "Swiftees") caught in baldfaced lie"?

It just doesn't seem mattering that: "Swiftee" Kerry's EXTREMELY LONG 3-4 month and glory packed Tour of Duty in Vietnam, is recorded as based primarily on and EXTREMELY LARGE PACK OF LIES & MANY SELF-APPLIED-FOR DECORATIONS?

Also, that basically "He" considers (ACTUALLY as DNC so orders) Kerry's quite small: "Band of Brothers" to be Honorable Veterans of unquestionable character and be totally believed under any circumstances,...whilst simultaneously calling ANY & ALL Honorable Veterans: "Bums", whom don't obediently follow the DNC preferred variation or: "Rambo"-like portrayal of Kerry in Vietnam,...isn't very nice.

"Isn't very nice" HELL. Gimpy's numbers and words are downright intelligence insulting in general (overwhelming majority of Honorable Veteran Swiftboaters-insulting also).

Neil

[Arrow]

Thanks and credit to Swiftvets.com

Statement by Navy Veteran Van Odell, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth,
in Rebuttal to Michael Dobbs, Washington Post, August 19, 2004

A courageous, soft spoken man of the Midwest, Larry Thurlow has a heart bigger than the great plains and a commitment to truth and honesty that is boundless. He is under attack, because John Kerry is feeling the heat of truth at the hands of this honest man and others like him.

The Kerry Campaign is attacking the truthfulness of this man and the Bronze Star he so richly deserves for his actions on March 13, 1969. I was there. I saw what happened.

The mine?s detonation lifted PCF-3 completely out of the water just yards ahead of me. All boats commenced suppression fire in case enemy small arms fire ensued. None did.

All boats came to the aid of PCF-3, except one: John Kerry?s boat. Kerry fled.

Larry Thurlow piloted his boat straight toward the mine-damaged PCF-3 from which thick, black smoke billowed. He jumped aboard and personally led damage control operations that saved the boat and rescue operations that saved the lives of badly wounded men. Larry?s leadership was in the highest traditions of the naval service. His leadership allowed the other men and boats of the mission to exit the river safely.

This ?single act of meritorious service? ? the chief requirement of the Bronze Star ? should be honored, not ridiculed, by the Kerry campaign and its allies in the mainstream media.

To reiterate, only one enemy weapon was deployed that day ? the command-detonated submerged mine that disabled PCF-3. Larry Thurlow?s citation contained references to ?enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire,? because that was the language chosen by John Kerry who penned the ?spot report? on the action that day. There was no ?enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire? received that day. John Kerry?s report was fiction ? a hoax on the entire chain of command.

Larry Thurlow?s heroism and meritorious service, however, is real.
To me Larry is one of the heroes of our country. He is a man who served his country when called and who returned home to be a productive citizen. Larry and men like him are the strong backbone of our society. I am proud to have served with him.

[Gimpy]

HorseHockey and any other kind of "manure" you want to call it!

THEY GOT CAUGHT IN A DAMN LIE AND THERE"RE ALL COVERING EACH OTHERS A$$!

[Gimpy]

Just got through watching "HardBall" and Chris Matthews HAMMER the living crap of Thurlows "explanation" about this latest bit of interesting news coming out. And, how Thurlows "account" NOW is so much different than his award citation and the accounts DOCUMENTED by the U.S. Navy!

Thurlow WAS the "senior" officer on that day at that time. Where was HIS "after action report"?????

It's ALL coming apart at the seams!

Their hate and viciousness towards John Kerry and their attempts to discredit his service to this country are becoming oh so apparent to anyone that can see through this crap!

They'd LIE through their TEETH to try and prevent him from getting the Presidency!!!!!