Special Forces question

[MORTARDUDE]

Every time I meet someone, and they find out that I was in Vietnam, I invariably hear that a relative or friend of theirs was there in Special Forces......sure ! .... Is there any way to determine how many individual Special Forces troops ( other than Green Berets as well ? ) put their boots on the soil of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos from 1959 - 1975. Also, is there any way to estimate how many are still living ? I suppose you could use a standard mortality table and add a cetain percentage for all the risk fators...Both of these groups must be small in size. Thanks !

Larry

[39mto39g]

US Army Special Forces 1961-1971 by Farancis J. Kelly (Washington DC ; US government printing office 1973.)

[Robert Ryan]

You know Ron I've gone nuts trying to find something like Larry was talking about, thanks for the info.

[MORTARDUDE]

Thanks Ron !

Larry

[rotorwash]

I had coffee with my old team sgt who is now a civilian working at Bragg and I posed your question to him. He glanced through Kelly's book mentioned above, then at a couple more and gave me this figure:

3500 on the ground at any one time involved in the CIDG program when it was at its peak, all from the 5th Group except for 30 or so Aussies.

In SOG there were about 400 on the ground at any one time during the years 1965 until April 1972- plus 6 A-teams (72 guys) mostly provided by the 1st Group on a 6 month rotating basis.

An important thing to remember is that most SF served 3 to 5 tours.

I am a member of the SF Association and this is a common topic of discussion, but most SF consider it laughable, because if you were there and did it you don't talk about it. I would judge the wannabe's by that criteria.

First ask if they were SOG or CIDG. If SOG ask what FOB they operated out of or what CCC (North, South or Central) they were assigned to. If CIDG ask which A team they were with-it's always going to be a 3 digit number, like A-107.

Although SOG is where most of the wannabes claim to have served, only 103 SF types were killed in 2675 cross border ops. It could get hairy but was no death sentence. I think guys like James, Tom and others on this site experienced more actual combat then the average SF soldier. What made SF missions so interesting was that you and a buddy were placed in the middle of the bad guys with 4 or 5 indig types who may or may not like you, usually with only a rumor of support.

CIDG Mike force was the most dangerous, truly a job for an adrenalin junky.

Hope this helps

Rotorwash

[MORTARDUDE]

Very good info. Thanks RW !

Larry

[Advisor]

Think a lot of these guys claiming to be SF really were riding the short bus a la Forest Gump.

[PHO127]

I saw a few firefights in SOG but no large battles until I was with the 25th and then on Lam Son 719. SOG operations were to look and see, not to fight. You were to small and to far away to pick a fight. Yor job was to be VEWY VEWY QUIET. And Again being in the bush with one other american and 4 Mercs was something that kept your heart rate up 24/7. My Khemers were very loyal to me, ask Doc Fred as they were going to shoot up his aid station when I was brought in there once. They didn't want his Vietnamese aids to be in the treatment room with me alone.

More info, A SOG RT is patterned after the old CIA call signs and Jargon. A RT team commander is a 10 (pronounced one-zero), assistant is 11(one-one). HQ and operations are called houses, I.E. House 20 would be operations. SOG stood for studies and observation group. Group 31 was Air, Group 35 was land, Group 81 was air rescue, don't remember sea/water group number.

[DMZ-LT]

Remember the biker guy at the Outhouse who had a SF patch on his leather vest. Couldn't recall his address , his MOS was radio and was out by Laos but couldn't remember the name of the place. I don't think he even finished his beer before he knew he had been busted and headed to the door

[39mto39g]

Special Forces.
The two camps I was by were in Dak To and some where by Laos ,
Both places were kinda rest camps for the SF, Id walk by there tent and there would be a refridgerator in the tent, some even had real beds, Most had a good life, until!!!!!!
I never wittnessed a SF/VC-NVA fight but I would imagin it would be intence, SF numbers were useually low and they had to relie on ARVN or Yards.
SF kinda reminds me of a Bomber Crew in WW2, Had it kinda nice, But could die in the next hour.

Ron