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Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
The Honolulu Advertiser
Sunday, January 4, 2004 http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...html/?print=on Group outlines Stryker concerns By Karen Blakeman Advertiser Staff Writer The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only lip service to the impact that the vehicles and required training scenarios are likely to have on the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged yesterday in a 32-page letter. "We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and our elected leaders are viewing the environmental review process for this project as a mere formality instead of using it as the decision-making tool it is meant to be," said Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i chapter. The Sierra Club also accused the Army of expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade without properly studying the effect those changes were likely to have on the environment. It contends that although the Army has made progress in its stewardship of land it uses in the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at old sites and issues such as the recent fire in Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of the new Stryker Brigade. The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments. The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army as a response to the government's three-volume, 1,500-page draft environmental impact statement, which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the last day for the public to submit responses. "The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided comments on the draft environmental impact statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the 25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments will be reviewed, considered and addressed with the same deliberate process as the other comments on the document received during the public comment period." Griffin would not comment on the specific allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues were better addressed through the environmental impact review process. The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead of treads and is said to be extremely maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed anywhere in the world within 96 hours. Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics who, at the end of the 20th century, contended the service was incapable of deploying fighting units quickly enough to respond to scenarios likely to arise in the 21st century. The first Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is being tested in Iraq. It was reported last month that Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker Brigade for Hawai'i. The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division (Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks. State elected officials, including Sen. Dan Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a continued military presence in Hawai'i and an economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter also points out that government money has been set aside for the improvements that would support the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air Force Base, which would transport deployed vehicles by C-17 aircraft. These statements and actions seem to indicate that the military plans to go forward with the Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in the environmental studies, Mikulina said. The Sierra Club also said that training with Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not considered in studies leading to the military's original environmental impact statement and should have been. A new or amended draft environmental impact statement should be prepared and submitted for public comment, the letter said. The Army will review the public comments it has received before deciding whether to issue a final environmental impact statement. Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com. © COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
"redvet" news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com... > The Honolulu Advertiser > > Sunday, January 4, 2004 Oh, shut the hell up, Pinkster. Nobody wants to see you right now. Bill's back. Rita |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out what
the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually is. In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck off eat shit and die choking. -- Don Thompson "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- Thucydides "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- Albert Camus "redvet" news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com... > The Honolulu Advertiser > > Sunday, January 4, 2004 > > http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar...html/?print=on > > > > Group outlines Stryker concerns > > By Karen Blakeman > > Advertiser Staff Writer > > The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to > > install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only > > lip service to the impact that the vehicles and > > required training scenarios are likely to have on > > the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged > > yesterday in a 32-page letter. > > "We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and > > our elected leaders are viewing the environmental > > review process for this project as a mere > > formality instead of using it as the > > decision-making tool it is meant to be," said > > Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i > > chapter. > > The Sierra Club also accused the Army of > > expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade > > without properly studying the effect those > > changes were likely to have on the environment. > > It contends that although the Army has made > > progress in its stewardship of land it uses in > > the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at > > old sites and issues such as the recent fire in > > Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of > > the new Stryker Brigade. > > The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments. > > The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army > > as a response to the government's three-volume, > > 1,500-page draft environmental impact statement, > > which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the > > last day for the public to submit responses. > > "The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided > > comments on the draft environmental impact > > statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the > > 25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments > > will be reviewed, considered and addressed with > > the same deliberate process as the other comments > > on the document received during the public > > comment period." > > Griffin would not comment on the specific > > allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues > > were better addressed through the environmental > > impact review process. > > The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is > > light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead > > of treads and is said to be extremely > > maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams > > include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed > > anywhere in the world within 96 hours. > > Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics > > who, at the end of the 20th century, contended > > the service was incapable of deploying fighting > > units quickly enough to respond to scenarios > > likely to arise in the 21st century. The first > > Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is > > being tested in Iraq. > > It was reported last month that Secretary of > > Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker > > Brigade for Hawai'i. > > The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational > > in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm > > howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled > > to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be > > the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division > > (Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks. > > State elected officials, including Sen. Dan > > Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the > > Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a > > continued military presence in Hawai'i and an > > economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter > > also points out that government money has been > > set aside for the improvements that would support > > the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air > > Force Base, which would transport deployed > > vehicles by C-17 aircraft. > > > > These statements and actions seem to indicate > > that the military plans to go forward with the > > Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in > > the environmental studies, Mikulina said. > > The Sierra Club also said that training with > > Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not > > considered in studies leading to the military's > > original environmental impact statement and > > should have been. A new or amended draft > > environmental impact statement should be prepared > > and submitted for public comment, the letter said. > > The Army will review the public comments it has > > received before deciding whether to issue a final > > environmental impact statement. > > Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com. > > © COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. > > > |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
"Don T" news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net... > You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out what > the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in > California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in > Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually is. > In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck off > eat shit and die choking. > > -- > Don Thompson > > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- > Thucydides > > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- > Albert Camus > Aloha Don, How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? I have always viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. "Radical environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways. March 20th will be a good gauge as to where the anti-war movement is headed. Mr. Mann posted last week about how the out-of -power politicians would use anti-war groups to front for them (my interpretation of his post). While that position is a bit harsh, I do think there will be a great deal of coordination between the two. This is one very large difference from Vietnam...as it is increasingly referred to. It took until very late in 1969 for the various anti-war groups to work together, achieving a degree of coordination and success. Now we are witnessing that type of anti-war support for a war which is barely a year old. In March, if that analysis is correct, we should see the effect of those efforts . It begs an entire series of questions as well. For instance, will the newscasts devote more time to the demonstrations? Does this create a larger base of support? (Not to worry Don, you'll always have 'Fox'.) Oh well, maybe you were thinking of a different "Sierra Club" then the one I'm familiar with. - redvet, who also thinks Albert Camus has its moments |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
redvet wrote:
> > Aloha Don, > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you socialists have no political labels other than expediency. I have always > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your point. "Radical > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways. 1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor? 2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of delusional people. Al Zeller |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
Yeah. ELF ( Environmental "Liberation" Front ) and ALF ( Animal
"Liberation" Front ) are both on the FBI terrorist organization list. Both are made up of members of other, more "mainstream", environmental cults. Environmentalism is the religion of the socialist wing of the democrat party. It is taking over as the only religion the democrat party is willing to tolerate. -- Don Thompson "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- Thucydides "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- Albert Camus "Al Zeller" news:btfflg$27dl$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... > redvet wrote: > > > > > Aloha Don, > > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who > > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? > Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you > socialists have no political labels other than expediency. > > I have always > > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. > I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody > as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your > point. > > "Radical > > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In > > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in > > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways. > 1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor? > 2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of > delusional people. > > Al Zeller > > |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
What do they coordinate - the sale of Cambodian red in Hawaii or a Hawaiian
home grown for the spaced out idiots in the antiwar movement. Give us a break red, no gives a crap what the antiwar activists are doing in Hawaii except those who continue to live in their spaced out Disneyland world. ------------------ "redvet" news:vvmc34cc8hhc64@corp.supernews.com... > > "Don T" > news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net... > > You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out > what > > the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in > > California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in > > Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually > is. > > In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck > off > > eat shit and die choking. > > > > -- > > Don Thompson > > > > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is > before > > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- > > Thucydides > > > > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: > > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- > > Albert Camus > > > Aloha Don, > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, who > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? I have always > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. "Radical > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. In > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways. > March 20th will be a good gauge as to where the anti-war movement is > headed. Mr. Mann posted last week about how the out-of -power politicians > would use anti-war groups to front for them (my interpretation of his post). > While that position is a bit harsh, I do think there will be a great deal of > coordination between the two. This is one very large difference from > Vietnam...as it is increasingly referred to. It took until very late in 1969 > for the various anti-war groups to work together, achieving a degree of > coordination and success. Now we are witnessing that type of anti-war > support for a war which is barely a year old. In March, if that analysis is > correct, we should see the effect of those efforts . It begs an entire > series of questions as well. For instance, will the newscasts devote more > time to the demonstrations? Does this create a larger base of support? (Not > to worry Don, you'll always have 'Fox'.) > Oh well, maybe you were thinking of a different "Sierra Club" then the > one I'm familiar with. - redvet, who also thinks Albert Camus has its > moments > > |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
Very good Don ! Good description for the ELF, we see them active on the
East Coast as well, most are under psychiatric care - a so called extension of the gay rights movement which feels they have the god given right to destroy other peoples private property and carry out acts of a terrorist nature every time they have a case of the PMS in the mouth. It would not come as a surprise that they are directly linked to the large number of Forrest fires in some states that have destroyed entire communities. Hopefully, the Federal government will build a few more federal psychiatric facilities because there is not enough room in St. Elizabeth Psychiatric hospital to house all of them because they are all going to be heading to a Federal institution for the criminal and mentally insane eventually. --------------- "Don T" news:fIHKb.23518$lo3.903@newsread2.news.pas.earthl ink.net... > Yeah. ELF ( Environmental "Liberation" Front ) and ALF ( Animal > "Liberation" Front ) are both on the FBI terrorist organization list. Both > are made up of members of other, more "mainstream", environmental cults. > Environmentalism is the religion of the socialist wing of the democrat > party. It is taking over as the only religion the democrat party is willing > to tolerate. > > -- > Don Thompson > > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- > Thucydides > > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- > Albert Camus > > > "Al Zeller" > news:btfflg$27dl$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... > > redvet wrote: > > > > > > > > Aloha Don, > > > How nice to hear from you. Well - we do have a republican governor, > who > > > is pro-choice,out here. Do you believe she might be commie? > > Jeffords used to be a Republican before he became a turn coat, so you > > socialists have no political labels other than expediency. > > > > I have always > > > viewed the "Sierra Club" as fairly conservative in its orientation. > > I'm sure Lenin thought Trotsky was fairly conservative and for somebody > > as far off the left end of the political spectrum as you, I can see your > > point. > > > > "Radical > > > environmentalist gangs" is term best suited for a group like the 'ELF'. > In > > > any event...I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism > in > > > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different > ways. > > 1. ELF? Is that something like ALF, but works out of Mordor? > > 2. I find it less than interesting, since it's the same set of > > delusional people. > > > > Al Zeller > > > > > > |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
Environmentalist gangs ! I thought that was the code word for the Marijuana
growers association - commonly referred to by law enforcement experts as environmental space cadets ! -------------- "Don T" news:C6CKb.23110$lo3.11673@newsread2.news.pas.eart hlink.net... > You -DO- realize that more and more people are beginning to figure out what > the real agenda of the "Sierra Club" ( fuck me, ain't the Sierra's in > California and Mexico? Then just what the fuck is a "Sierra Club" doing in > Hawai'i? ) and the rest of the radical "environmentalist" gangs actually is. > In greater and greater numbers WE, the people, are telling them to fuck off > eat shit and die choking. > > -- > Don Thompson > > "The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before > them, glory and danger alike, and notwithstanding go out to meet it."- > Thucydides > > "Men are never really willing to die except for the sake of Freedom: > Therefore they do not believe in dying completely."- > Albert Camus > > > "redvet" > news:vvlq8d6br2q389@corp.supernews.com... > > The Honolulu Advertiser > > > > Sunday, January 4, 2004 > > > > > http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/ar....html/?print=o n > > > > > > > > Group outlines Stryker concerns > > > > By Karen Blakeman > > > > Advertiser Staff Writer > > > > The Army is speeding ahead with its plans to > > > > install a Stryker Brigade in Hawai'i, giving only > > > > lip service to the impact that the vehicles and > > > > required training scenarios are likely to have on > > > > the state's environment, the Sierra Club charged > > > > yesterday in a 32-page letter. > > > > "We are concerned that the Army, the Pentagon and > > > > our elected leaders are viewing the environmental > > > > review process for this project as a mere > > > > formality instead of using it as the > > > > decision-making tool it is meant to be," said > > > > Jeff Mikulina, director of the club's Hawai'i > > > > chapter. > > > > The Sierra Club also accused the Army of > > > > expanding its plans for the Stryker Brigade > > > > without properly studying the effect those > > > > changes were likely to have on the environment. > > > > It contends that although the Army has made > > > > progress in its stewardship of land it uses in > > > > the state, problems with inadequate cleanup at > > > > old sites and issues such as the recent fire in > > > > Makua Valley do not bode well for the impact of > > > > the new Stryker Brigade. > > > > The Army said it would carefully review the Sierra Club's comments. > > > > The Sierra Club letter was submitted to the Army > > > > as a response to the government's three-volume, > > > > 1,500-page draft environmental impact statement, > > > > which was released Sept. 30. Yesterday was the > > > > last day for the public to submit responses. > > > > "The Army is pleased the Sierra Club provided > > > > comments on the draft environmental impact > > > > statement," said Troy Griffin, spokesman for the > > > > 25th Infantry Division (Light). "These comments > > > > will be reviewed, considered and addressed with > > > > the same deliberate process as the other comments > > > > on the document received during the public > > > > comment period." > > > > Griffin would not comment on the specific > > > > allegations by the Sierra Club, saying the issues > > > > were better addressed through the environmental > > > > impact review process. > > > > The Stryker is a 19-ton armored vehicle that is > > > > light enough to airlift, has eight wheels instead > > > > of treads and is said to be extremely > > > > maneuverable. Stryker Brigade combat teams > > > > include 3,600 soldiers designed to be deployed > > > > anywhere in the world within 96 hours. > > > > Stryker Brigades are the Army's answer to critics > > > > who, at the end of the 20th century, contended > > > > the service was incapable of deploying fighting > > > > units quickly enough to respond to scenarios > > > > likely to arise in the 21st century. The first > > > > Stryker brigade, out of Fort Lewis, Wash., is > > > > being tested in Iraq. > > > > It was reported last month that Secretary of > > > > Defense Donald Rumsfeld has approved a Stryker > > > > Brigade for Hawai'i. > > > > The Stryker Brigade is expected to be operational > > > > in 2007, equipped with new lightweight 155 mm > > > > howitzers and new Comanche helicopters scheduled > > > > to be in service in 2009. The Stryker would be > > > > the 2nd Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division > > > > (Light) and be based at Schofield Barracks. > > > > State elected officials, including Sen. Dan > > > > Inouye and Rep. Neil Abercrombie, have lauded the > > > > Stryker Brigade as a means of ensuring a > > > > continued military presence in Hawai'i and an > > > > economic impetus for the state. The Sierra letter > > > > also points out that government money has been > > > > set aside for the improvements that would support > > > > the Stryker, including upgrades to Hickam Air > > > > Force Base, which would transport deployed > > > > vehicles by C-17 aircraft. > > > > > > > > These statements and actions seem to indicate > > > > that the military plans to go forward with the > > > > Stryker Brigade, regardless of the findings in > > > > the environmental studies, Mikulina said. > > > > The Sierra Club also said that training with > > > > Comanche helicopters and 155 mm howitzers was not > > > > considered in studies leading to the military's > > > > original environmental impact statement and > > > > should have been. A new or amended draft > > > > environmental impact statement should be prepared > > > > and submitted for public comment, the letter said. > > > > The Army will review the public comments it has > > > > received before deciding whether to issue a final > > > > environmental impact statement. > > > > Reach Karen Blakeman at 535-2430 or kblakeman@honoluluadvertiser.com. > > > > © COPYRIGHT 2004 The Honolulu Advertiser, a division of Gannett Co. Inc. > > > > > > > > |
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Re: Anti-War Up - Stryker Concerns
In article
"redvet" > I found it interesting how opposition to overall militarism in > the popular culture is refracted by different groups, in different ways. The same differences appear in the approval of the military in Hawaii -- such as the statements at the recent hearings by the local chapter of the Nature Conservancy approving of the Army's EIS, commending and endorsing the Army's demonstrated commitment to preserving the environment. Which group reflects the opinion of the vast majority? Get over it Scotty. You've no more than a handful of supporters compared to those who approve of the military's presence here in Hawaii. You really should get out more to see what people outside your small circle of radical wackos are thinking. As always, -Dai Uy -- |
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