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Old 08-11-2008, 12:18 PM
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Exclamation 2008 South Ossetia war (Russia vs Georgia) about war in land & in web.

Because of database errors resent post about Georgia was lost.

For start, if you can please join in to make wikipedia info more complete about this war, there is huge amount of info right now there:

en.wikipedia. com/wiki/Talk:2008_South_Ossetia_War (read there before editing)
en.wikipedia. org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_War



I saw here really good posts about Georgia & Russia (like why situation is like it is), i would appreciate if we start this post again
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Old 08-11-2008, 12:20 PM
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Personally i think Its not fair that people just see this war as Georgians attacked & killed 2000 russians for NO reason like soviet media wants people to believe. Its maybe also not fair to say all the things what so called western media is reporting... but hell, at least we have choice in western world what to read and report. Russia was 3th deadliest country for journalists between 2002-2006 - this including arias like iraq !

Russia has started massive "webwar" and just like from no where has come people in to networks like facebook,myspace,orkut (all of them have aprx 100 million users) livejurnal(now owned by russia), vkontaktie (15 million users, mostly russians) and making up groups about how western media lies about russia & they call everyone up to not pay attention to western news becouse they have always been telling lies only and take a look at russian point of view. (they represent themselves as Americans, finnish, uk etc). Most of russian news ofcourse links back to servers what are paid by dpni (was first hosted in VKPB server) , Nashi & others powers like that even if they are hosted in US or europe (but then again, their network IS wide and they have a lot of connections to different fashist organisations world wide) .
A lot of people might think that these are just random activists & web activity is not important at all - think again. This is government lever project and to put it simple words basically it means "KGB (FSB) is doing massive work in web" to prepare people... ( and its supper easy to control media with hackers from FAPSI & gov programs like SORM-2). Massive anti USA campaigns are started in russia (like usa wants to attack russia and they need to prepare and protect themselves, they say "do we need to wait when they attack us first") - more then ever, more then anywhere you can imagine. Russian youth are brainwashed & that means russia can more and more do whatever they want soon.

Putin has long time talked about "one central information space" & that "we can not let negative image go around the internet"


defensetech.org is has alot of interesting info about cyber war, also russians them self talking about Team G ( expertiza.ru - use google web translator ). Also they have started massive attack against Georgia networks, similar tactics as they used estonia-russia.tk conflict but because IT infrastructure is not so strong in Georgia compared to Estonia they have been able to break in to many websites and upload hitler pictures etc. Georgia in respond has block all russia media channels & ru websites... (russians say its because they want to hide truth from georgians). But i was actually witness in estonia when russia TV channels „made“ news, i mean like „take two, now start to cry!“ things.

But im not so fluent expressing all the thing, so i let some smarter people to talk now
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Last edited by Waffa; 08-11-2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: well.. some spelling.. my English.. :)
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:01 PM
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Estonia will send specialists from Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT) to Georgia, Foreign Ministry representatives told the Baltic News Service.

Just for small update, Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Georgia mfa.gov.ge [IP: 212.47.222.163 - ee] is hosted in Estonia now for start
-

to die for danzig? (great blog)
palun.blogspot. com/2008/08/to-die-for-danzig.html
"Itching for Eestima writes about the historical parallels between Estonia and Georgia and the fear of being invaded from the East, viz. by Russia."





Est. Cyber Superpower
businessweek .com/globalbiz/content/dec2007/gb20071217_535635.htm
So highly regarded is Estonia's online technology and security savvy that NATO's new cyber-warfare center will be based there.

Estonia Signs Cyber-Defense Deal with NATO Allies
dw-world. de/dw/article/0,2144,3337912,00.html
In the conflict, Russian hackers launched a series of attacks aimed at shutting down the Web sites of Estonian government services and banks in retaliation for Estonia's decision to relocate a Red Army war memorial.

The attacks, which Estonia successfully withstood, brought the concept of cyber-warfare to the top of the defense agenda and gave Estonia a reputation for front-line expertise in the field.
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Old 08-11-2008, 05:49 PM
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Russian MEDIA is 100% controlled by the PUTIN GOVERNMENT

In that case only believe 1% of what they broadcast
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:23 PM
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Default Cease-fire is a joke

During the ceasefire in Georgia, Putin and Bush are taking a break by fishing in the Mtkvari River.

After half an hour Bush complains,
"Vladimir, I'm getting bitten like crazy by mosquitoes, but I haven't seen a single one bothering you."

Putin: "Those Georgian mosquitoes know better than that."
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Old 08-11-2008, 06:29 PM
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Deadly,

You have a WAY with words!
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:46 PM
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:55 PM
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Default War Is a Joke

There is a famous saying,
“War doesn’t determine who is right, but who is left.”
People fight for liberty, for freedom, for dignity, but at the end, nothing is more important than being able to live.
Nobody considers themselves evil, the dark force is always on the other side. Liberation, on the enemy’s side, is called occupation.
Preparing for defense, on the enemy’s side, is called a sign of offense.
A war then starts.
We fight for people we never met, they fight against foreign invasion.
The war goes on.
People are dying.
Finally, we win, they surrender.
But look, the people that we used our lives to liberate, are all dead.
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Old 08-12-2008, 04:59 AM
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Default Putin

and his KGB cronies are in firm control of Russia. I'll back our ally, the Georgian people and anybody else that stands up to Russia. The goons are back and this can mean nothing but trouble all over the world.

Pack
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Old 08-12-2008, 11:03 AM
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Default Georgia says Russia bombed after order to halt war

AP


TBILISI, Georgia - Russia ordered a halt to the war in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks that sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns, military bases and homes in the U.S. ally smoldering. Georgia insisted that Russian forces were still bombing and shelling.

Despite the televised order by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Russia launched an offensive Tuesday in the Kodori Gorge, the only part of the breakaway region of Abkhazia still under Georgian control, sending in tanks, armored personnel carriers and artillery.

And hours before the order, Russian jets bombed the crossroads city of Gori, near the separatist region of South Ossetia. Gori's post office and university were burning Tuesday, but the city was all but deserted after most remaining residents and Georgian soldiers fled Monday ahead of a feared Russian onslaught.

In Moscow, Medvedev said Georgia had been punished enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist province, which has close ties to Russia.

"The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized," Medvedev said.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, speaking before a crowd of thousands at a Tbilisi square, said the invasion was not because Russia wanted control of the breakaway regions.

"They just don't want freedom and that's why they want to stamp on Georgia and destroy it," he said, as red and white Georgian fluttered.

Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting — South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.

Both sides have traded accusations of genocide.

Russia has accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in the separatist province of South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.

Many Georgians also have been killed in the fighting and on Tuesday, the Georgian security council said it filed a lawsuit in the International Court of Justice for alleged ethnic cleansing. The overall death toll was expected to rise because large areas of Georgia were still too dangerous for journalists to enter and see the true scope of the damage.

"It feels like an annexed country," said Lasha Margiana, the local administrator in one of the villages in the Kodori Gorge, where fleeing Georgians said the entire population had abandoned their homes.

Medvedev assailed the West for supporting Georgia in the conflict: "International law doesn't envision double standards."

In Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian provincial capital now under Russian control, the body of a Georgian soldier lay in the street along with debris. A poster hanging nearby showed Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the slogan "Say yes to peace and stability" as South Ossetian separatist fighters launched rockets at a Georgian plane soaring overhead. Broken glass and other debris littered the ground.

"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," Medvedev ordered his defense minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.

Russia's foreign minister called for Saakashvili to resign. Medvedev said Georgia must pull its troops from the two Russian-backed breakaway provinces and allow them to decide whether they want to remain part of Russia.

"Ossetians and Abkhaz must respond to that question taking their history into account, including what happened in the past few days," Medvedev said grimly.

Thousands of Georgians poured out their support for their president at a rally in Tbilisi, crowding a main square and nearby streets as far as the eye could see and holding aloft fluttering red-and-white Georgian flags.

Georgia, which is pushing for NATO membership, borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.

Both separatist provinces are backed by Russia, which appears open to absorbing them.

Medvedev said Tuesday that Russian peacekeepers will stay in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia; Saakashvili said his government will officially designate Russian peacekeepers in those breakaway provinces as occupying forces.

The Russian onslaught angered the West and drew tough words from President Bush, but some Georgians are disappointed that the U.S. did not intervene to protect its tiny ally.

"I'd like to think the words really do matter," U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza said Tuesday in Tbilisi.

Bryza declined to say if the U.S. would provide military support in the event that Russia expands its operations: "I hope we'll never come to the question of what we do if Russia refuses to observe international law."

Georgia sits on a strategic oil pipeline carrying Caspian crude to Western markets bypassing Russia, has long been a source of contention between the West and a resurgent Russia, the dominant energy supplier to Europe. The British oil company BP shut down one of three Georgian pipelines as a precaution, although the company said it had no evidence the pipelines had suffered damage.

In villages around the South Ossetian provincial capital, separatist fighters reportedly were setting fire to Georgian houses and searching for hidden Georgian fighters.

An AP photographer in the village of Ruisi near South Ossetia saw fresh damage from a Russian air raid that locals said came just 30 minutes before Medvedev's televised statement.

Residents said three villagers were killed and another five wounded when a Russian warplane raided the village. One slain victim, 77-year old Amiran Vardzelashvili, was struck by a fragment in the heart while was working in a field.

The Georgian government said another nearby village, Sakorinto, also was bombed after Medvedev announcing a halt to fighting, as was an ambulance in the Black Sea province of Adzharia.

The U.N. and NATO called meetings Tuesday to deal with the conflict, while Poland's president and the leaders of four former Soviet republics flew to Georgia for a meeting of solidarity with Saakashvili.

"The Russian state has once again shown its face, its true face," said Poland's Lech Kaczynski, who was being joined by counterparts from Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine and Latvia.

But he said it was "good news" that Medvedev ordered a halt to military action.

At the White House on Monday, Bush had demanded that Russia end a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of violence in Georgia, agree to an immediate cease-fire and accept international mediation.

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century," Bush said in a televised statement.
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