GIs in Iraq are asking: Why are we here?

[MORTARDUDE]

http://www.iht.com/articles/533600.html



GIs in Iraq are asking: Why are we here?

Anne Barnard/ The Boston Globe The Boston Globe Thursday, August 12, 2004

RAMADI, Iraq Four months into their tour of duty at one of the most dangerous American bases in Iraq, young marines say the slow pace of progress is shaking their faith in their mission.
.
Playing cards one recent evening while on call to respond to any sudden outburst of violence, Lance Corporal David Goward and the rest of his squad voiced two growing concerns: that the U.S. military would linger here indefinitely and that the troops' very presence was provoking the fighting it was meant to stop.
.
They are ready for any battle, they said, but a pervasive sense that Iraqis do not want their help has killed their enthusiasm for the larger goals of introducing democracy and rebuilding the country.
.
"I don't think any of us even care what happens to this country," Goward said, as a half-dozen marines, all stationed here in the capital of the restive Anbar Province, nodded in agreement. "I'm here to make sure these guys get home safely. And they're here to make sure I do."
.
Senior Marine Corps and Army commanders in this Sunni Muslim region west of Baghdad, an area they say must be tamed for the new U.S.-$ backed Iraqi government to succeed, repeatedly cautioned a reporter that junior-level troops did not see the big picture.
.
Grunts don't hear Anbar's governor asking the United States not to leave, the senior officers said. They don't see Iraqi officials shouldering new responsibilities; they don't see Iraqi police doing a better job on the outskirts of Ramadi, the provincial capital, than they do in the more anti-American downtown.
.
But Goward and his squad - and others who echoed them from Ramadi to Falluja - are sending a signal from the enlisted men who bear the brunt of the military's burden.
.
Many are on their second tour of duty in Iraq and may face a third if U.S. forces are needed, as expected, to guarantee security through the election of a permanent Iraqi government in late 2005.
.
They can recite by heart their stated mission, to protect the fledgling local government until Iraqi security forces are strong enough to take over. But as continued attacks and new U.S. tactics have cut down on their interactions with Iraqis - other than in combat - many say they witness little gratitude and little progress.
.
From Goward's point of view, the United States has fulfilled its goals in Iraq: toppling Saddam Hussein, capturing him, handing off formal sovereignty to Iraqis. "What's left?" he asked.
.
His squad belongs to Golf Company, part of the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, which occupies three bases in downtown Ramadi and has faced some of the country's largest insurgent attacks.
.
The battalion commander, Lieutenant Colonel Paul Kennedy, a Boston University graduate from Bloomfield, Connecticut, calls Golf his "fightingest" company. Golf has fended off the most company- and platoon-size attacks, he said, with 4 marines killed and 43 injured.
.
Last week, Lieutenant Donovan Campbell, a platoon commander, busily typed up citations for his men, one for a young marine who grabbed a heavy machine gun he was not trained to use and laid down covering fire from a rooftop to help fight off a major attack.
.
Yet, for the marines, it is sometimes hard to see the results.
.
Goward's squad was assigned one recent evening to act as a quick reaction force. If fighting broke out, they would be first to respond. They played spades, using an empty cot as a card table. A hole in the wall showed where a rocket had burst through a few weeks earlier; it hit the floor without exploding.
.
Asked about their experiences in Iraq, they first reacted with sheepish silence; then poured out their own questions about their situation.
.
"I haven't seen any improvement since I've been here," said Corporal Jaime Duenas, 23, of Nogales, Arizona. He contrasted Ramadi to southern Iraq, where he was stationed last year just after the invasion and worked with locals happy to see Saddam toppled.
.
"Last year, it was pretty chill; kids ran up to us and waved," he said. "Here, kids throw rocks."
.
"People are tired of us being here," said Lance Corporal Anthony Robert, 21, of Charlottesville, Virginia. "It's the same as if someone came to the U.S. and started taking over. You'd do what you'd have to do."
.
Lance Corporal Kenneth Burke, 22, of Lufkin, Texas, looked up from his cards. "OIF-1 had a purpose," he said, referring to Operation Iraqi Freedom 1, the Marine Corps deployment in the invasion. "This one, I don't think so."
.
Burke is one of two marines called back to Iraq from stateside duties to fill out the ranks of the squad, which has 10 members instead of the typical 13 because several of have gone home with injuries. The squad boasts nine Purple Hearts.
.
"It makes your day to be in a firefight," Duenas said.
.
"It gets your blood flowing," Robert added.
.
But they are disappointed that they spend little of their time working with Iraqis to rebuild their country. An increase in violence since April and a U.S. decision to take a lower profile in the area have prevented that.
.
The squad members said they had come to resent Iraqi security forces who seemed unwilling to take risks and Iraqis who did not want them there.
.
"It doesn't matter how much America looks like it's trying to help," said the squad's leader, Corporal Glen Handy, 26, of Las Vegas. "If we stay 10 years or if we stay one year, we're going to leave and there's going to be chaos here."
.
The marines are surprised at some of their own ugly emotions. The Army troops whom the marines replaced told them, "You're going to learn to hate these people," Goward recalled. "I thought, 'With that attitude, no wonder you're having a hard time.' But you know what? They're absolutely right."
.
Goward, 26, said he would serve in whatever way his country demanded. But like the rest of the squad, he does not plan to re-enlist.
.
Handy has been overseas 19 of the last 24 months and had spent just 5 months with his 2-year-old daughter. He worries that he will be called up involuntarily - as is permitted for four years - after his active duty ends.
.
"Are they going to come back and die next time?" he asked, pointing to the younger marines.
.
Some troops in calmer areas find the job more rewarding. Across the river, in an outlying neighborhood, Army Private Second Class Jose Ortiz, 22, was on patrol recently when Iraqis approached and asked him to stop a local businessman from overcharging for electricity.
.
Ortiz's unit has worked extensively with the neighborhood to start a fairer system of electricity distribution. He said he would never want the United States to pull out: "We've done too much here."
.
Downtown, where insurgents are more active, marines face a grimmer situation. They live on small bases in refitted warehouses. Sandbags encircle the portable toilets in case of mortar attacks. A sign in the command center exhorts: Kill like a champion today!
.
The dangers and frustrations of the job were apparent as Golf's commanding officer, Captain Christopher Bronzi, met Kennedy on a street corner one recent morning.
.
They were searching for a new observation post to spot people planting roadside bombs. Local religious leaders have asked the marines to leave their current post, a blue-domed building called the Agricultural Center. The locals call it a religious site; it has often drawn rebels' gunfire.
.
Walking the streets, the marines got no friendly smiles, just hard stares. They settled on an old hotel, but to make it an observation post, they will have to block a busy alley to foil car bombs, reinforce the roof and cut down some of the few tall trees for a better view - investments suggesting the marines will be there for a long time.
.
Corporal Nat Canaga, 18, whom Bronzi commends for staying dedicated even after being wounded and witnessing another marine's jaw shot off, has adjusted his expectations.
.
"I can't say we're failing in our mission," he concluded at the end of the talk around the card table. "Our mission has changed. It's just to kill the bad guys. And we're doing that."
.
The Boston Globe



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< < Back to Start of Article RAMADI, Iraq Four months into their tour of duty at one of the most dangerous American bases in Iraq, young marines say the slow pace of progress is shaking their faith in their mission.
.
Playing cards one recent evening while on call to respond to any sudden outburst of violence, Lance Corporal David Goward and the rest of his squad voiced two growing concerns: that the U.S. military would linger here indefinitely and that the troops' very presence was provoking the fighting it was meant to stop.
.
They are ready for any battle, they said, but a pervasive sense that Iraqis do not want their help has killed their enthusiasm for the larger goals of introducing democracy and rebuilding the country.
.
"I don't think any of us even care what happens to this country," Goward said, as a half-dozen marines, all stationed here in the capital of the restive Anbar Province, nodded in agreement. "I'm here to make sure these guys get home safely. And they're here to make sure I do."
.
Senior Marine Corps and Army commanders in this Sunni Muslim region west of Baghdad, an area they say must be tamed for the new U.S.-$ backed Iraqi government to succeed, repeatedly cautioned a reporter that junior-level troops did not see the big picture.
.
Grunts don't hear Anbar's governor asking the United States not to leave, the senior officers said. They don't see Iraqi officials shouldering new responsibilities; they don't see Iraqi police doing a better job on the outskirts of Ramadi, the provincial capital, than they do in the more anti-American downtown.
.
But Goward and his squad - and others who echoed them from Ramadi to Falluja - are sending a signal from the enlisted men who bear the brunt of the military's burden.
.
Many are on their second tour of duty in Iraq and may face a third if U.S. forces are needed, as expected, to guarantee security through the election of a permanent Iraqi government in late 2005.
.
They can recite by heart their stated mission, to protect the fledgling local government until Iraqi security forces are strong enough to take over. But as continued attacks and new U.S. tactics have cut down on their interactions with Iraqis - other than in combat - many say they witness little gratitude and little progress.
.
From Goward's point of view, the United States has fulfilled its goals in Iraq: toppling Saddam Hussein, capturing him, handing off formal sovereignty to Iraqis. "What's left?" he asked.
.
His squad belongs to Golf Company, part of the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, which occupies three bases in downtown Ramadi and has faced some of the country's largest insurgent attacks.
.
The battalion commander, Lieutenant Colonel Paul Kennedy, a Boston University graduate from Bloomfield, Connecticut, calls Golf his "fightingest" company. Golf has fended off the most company- and platoon-size attacks, he said, with 4 marines killed and 43 injured.
.
Last week, Lieutenant Donovan Campbell, a platoon commander, busily typed up citations for his men, one for a young marine who grabbed a heavy machine gun he was not trained to use and laid down covering fire from a rooftop to help fight off a major attack.
.
Yet, for the marines, it is sometimes hard to see the results.
.
Goward's squad was assigned one recent evening to act as a quick reaction force. If fighting broke out, they would be first to respond. They played spades, using an empty cot as a card table. A hole in the wall showed where a rocket had burst through a few weeks earlier; it hit the floor without exploding.
.
Asked about their experiences in Iraq, they first reacted with sheepish silence; then poured out their own questions about their situation.
.
"I haven't seen any improvement since I've been here," said Corporal Jaime Duenas, 23, of Nogales, Arizona. He contrasted Ramadi to southern Iraq, where he was stationed last year just after the invasion and worked with locals happy to see Saddam toppled.
.
"Last year, it was pretty chill; kids ran up to us and waved," he said. "Here, kids throw rocks."
.
"People are tired of us being here," said Lance Corporal Anthony Robert, 21, of Charlottesville, Virginia. "It's the same as if someone came to the U.S. and started taking over. You'd do what you'd have to do."
.
Lance Corporal Kenneth Burke, 22, of Lufkin, Texas, looked up from his cards. "OIF-1 had a purpose," he said, referring to Operation Iraqi Freedom 1, the Marine Corps deployment in the invasion. "This one, I don't think so."
.
Burke is one of two marines called back to Iraq from stateside duties to fill out the ranks of the squad, which has 10 members instead of the typical 13 because several of have gone home with injuries. The squad boasts nine Purple Hearts.
.
"It makes your day to be in a firefight," Duenas said.
.
"It gets your blood flowing," Robert added.
.
But they are disappointed that they spend little of their time working with Iraqis to rebuild their country. An increase in violence since April and a U.S. decision to take a lower profile in the area have prevented that.
.
The squad members said they had come to resent Iraqi security forces who seemed unwilling to take risks and Iraqis who did not want them there.
.
"It doesn't matter how much America looks like it's trying to help," said the squad's leader, Corporal Glen Handy, 26, of Las Vegas. "If we stay 10 years or if we stay one year, we're going to leave and there's going to be chaos here."
.
The marines are surprised at some of their own ugly emotions. The Army troops whom the marines replaced told them, "You're going to learn to hate these people," Goward recalled. "I thought, 'With that attitude, no wonder you're having a hard time.' But you know what? They're absolutely right."
.
Goward, 26, said he would serve in whatever way his country demanded. But like the rest of the squad, he does not plan to re-enlist.
.
Handy has been overseas 19 of the last 24 months and had spent just 5 months with his 2-year-old daughter. He worries that he will be called up involuntarily - as is permitted for four years - after his active duty ends.
.
"Are they going to come back and die next time?" he asked, pointing to the younger marines.
.
Some troops in calmer areas find the job more rewarding. Across the river, in an outlying neighborhood, Army Private Second Class Jose Ortiz, 22, was on patrol recently when Iraqis approached and asked him to stop a local businessman from overcharging for electricity.
.
Ortiz's unit has worked extensively with the neighborhood to start a fairer system of electricity distribution. He said he would never want the United States to pull out: "We've done too much here."
.
Downtown, where insurgents are more active, marines face a grimmer situation. They live on small bases in refitted warehouses. Sandbags encircle the portable toilets in case of mortar attacks. A sign in the command center exhorts: Kill like a champion today!
.
The dangers and frustrations of the job were apparent as Golf's commanding officer, Captain Christopher Bronzi, met Kennedy on a street corner one recent morning.
.
They were searching for a new observation post to spot people planting roadside bombs. Local religious leaders have asked the marines to leave their current post, a blue-domed building called the Agricultural Center. The locals call it a religious site; it has often drawn rebels' gunfire.
.
Walking the streets, the marines got no friendly smiles, just hard stares. They settled on an old hotel, but to make it an observation post, they will have to block a busy alley to foil car bombs, reinforce the roof and cut down some of the few tall trees for a better view - investments suggesting the marines will be there for a long time.
.
Corporal Nat Canaga, 18, whom Bronzi commends for staying dedicated even after being wounded and witnessing another marine's jaw shot off, has adjusted his expectations.
.
"I can't say we're failing in our mission," he concluded at the end of the talk around the card table. "Our mission has changed. It's just to kill the bad guys. And we're doing that."
.
The Boston Globe RAMADI, Iraq Four months into their tour of duty at one of the most dangerous American bases in Iraq, young marines say the slow pace of progress is shaking their faith in their mission.
.
Playing cards one recent evening while on call to respond to any sudden outburst of violence, Lance Corporal David Goward and the rest of his squad voiced two growing concerns: that the U.S. military would linger here indefinitely and that the troops' very presence was provoking the fighting it was meant to stop.
.
They are ready for any battle, they said, but a pervasive sense that Iraqis do not want their help has killed their enthusiasm for the larger goals of introducing democracy and rebuilding the country.
.
"I don't think any of us even care what happens to this country," Goward said, as a half-dozen marines, all stationed here in the capital of the restive Anbar Province, nodded in agreement. "I'm here to make sure these guys get home safely. And they're here to make sure I do."
.
Senior Marine Corps and Army commanders in this Sunni Muslim region west of Baghdad, an area they say must be tamed for the new U.S.-$ backed Iraqi government to succeed, repeatedly cautioned a reporter that junior-level troops did not see the big picture.
.
Grunts don't hear Anbar's governor asking the United States not to leave, the senior officers said. They don't see Iraqi officials shouldering new responsibilities; they don't see Iraqi police doing a better job on the outskirts of Ramadi, the provincial capital, than they do in the more anti-American downtown.
.
But Goward and his squad - and others who echoed them from Ramadi to Falluja - are sending a signal from the enlisted men who bear the brunt of the military's burden.
.
Many are on their second tour of duty in Iraq and may face a third if U.S. forces are needed, as expected, to guarantee security through the election of a permanent Iraqi government in late 2005.
.
They can recite by heart their stated mission, to protect the fledgling local government until Iraqi security forces are strong enough to take over. But as continued attacks and new U.S. tactics have cut down on their interactions with Iraqis - other than in combat - many say they witness little gratitude and little progress.
.
From Goward's point of view, the United States has fulfilled its goals in Iraq: toppling Saddam Hussein, capturing him, handing off formal sovereignty to Iraqis. "What's left?" he asked.
.
His squad belongs to Golf Company, part of the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment, which occupies three bases in downtown Ramadi and has faced some of the country's largest insurgent attacks.
.
The battalion commander, Lieutenant Colonel Paul Kennedy, a Boston University graduate from Bloomfield, Connecticut, calls Golf his "fightingest" company. Golf has fended off the most company- and platoon-size attacks, he said, with 4 marines killed and 43 injured.
.
Last week, Lieutenant Donovan Campbell, a platoon commander, busily typed up citations for his men, one for a young marine who grabbed a heavy machine gun he was not trained to use and laid down covering fire from a rooftop to help fight off a major attack.
.
Yet, for the marines, it is sometimes hard to see the results.
.
Goward's squad was assigned one recent evening to act as a quick reaction force. If fighting broke out, they would be first to respond. They played spades, using an empty cot as a card table. A hole in the wall showed where a rocket had burst through a few weeks earlier; it hit the floor without exploding.
.
Asked about their experiences in Iraq, they first reacted with sheepish silence; then poured out their own questions about their situation.
.
"I haven't seen any improvement since I've been here," said Corporal Jaime Duenas, 23, of Nogales, Arizona. He contrasted Ramadi to southern Iraq, where he was stationed last year just after the invasion and worked with locals happy to see Saddam toppled.
.
"Last year, it was pretty chill; kids ran up to us and waved," he said. "Here, kids throw rocks."
.
"People are tired of us being here," said Lance Corporal Anthony Robert, 21, of Charlottesville, Virginia. "It's the same as if someone came to the U.S. and started taking over. You'd do what you'd have to do."
.
Lance Corporal Kenneth Burke, 22, of Lufkin, Texas, looked up from his cards. "OIF-1 had a purpose," he said, referring to Operation Iraqi Freedom 1, the Marine Corps deployment in the invasion. "This one, I don't think so."
.
Burke is one of two marines called back to Iraq from stateside duties to fill out the ranks of the squad, which has 10 members instead of the typical 13 because several of have gone home with injuries. The squad boasts nine Purple Hearts.
.
"It makes your day to be in a firefight," Duenas said.
.
"It gets your blood flowing," Robert added.
.
But they are disappointed that they spend little of their time working with Iraqis to rebuild their country. An increase in violence since April and a U.S. decision to take a lower profile in the area have prevented that.
.
The squad members said they had come to resent Iraqi security forces who seemed unwilling to take risks and Iraqis who did not want them there.
.
"It doesn't matter how much America looks like it's trying to help," said the squad's leader, Corporal Glen Handy, 26, of Las Vegas. "If we stay 10 years or if we stay one year, we're going to leave and there's going to be chaos here."
.
The marines are surprised at some of their own ugly emotions. The Army troops whom the marines replaced told them, "You're going to learn to hate these people," Goward recalled. "I thought, 'With that attitude, no wonder you're having a hard time.' But you know what? They're absolutely right."
.
Goward, 26, said he would serve in whatever way his country demanded. But like the rest of the squad, he does not plan to re-enlist.
.
Handy has been overseas 19 of the last 24 months and had spent just 5 months with his 2-year-old daughter. He worries that he will be called up involuntarily - as is permitted for four years - after his active duty ends.
.
"Are they going to come back and die next time?" he asked, pointing to the younger marines.
.
Some troops in calmer areas find the job more rewarding. Across the river, in an outlying neighborhood, Army Private Second Class Jose Ortiz, 22, was on patrol recently when Iraqis approached and asked him to stop a local businessman from overcharging for electricity.
.
Ortiz's unit has worked extensively with the neighborhood to start a fairer system of electricity distribution. He said he would never want the United States to pull out: "We've done too much here."
.
Downtown, where insurgents are more active, marines face a grimmer situation. They live on small bases in refitted warehouses. Sandbags encircle the portable toilets in case of mortar attacks. A sign in the command center exhorts: Kill like a champion today!
.
The dangers and frustrations of the job were apparent as Golf's commanding officer, Captain Christopher Bronzi, met Kennedy on a street corner one recent morning.
.
They were searching for a new observation post to spot people planting roadside bombs. Local religious leaders have asked the marines to leave their current post, a blue-domed building called the Agricultural Center. The locals call it a religious site; it has often drawn rebels' gunfire.
.
Walking the streets, the marines got no friendly smiles, just hard stares. They settled on an old hotel, but to make it an observation post, they will have to block a busy alley to foil car bombs, reinforce the roof and cut down some of the few tall trees for a better view - investments suggesting the marines will be there for a long time.
.
Corporal Nat Canaga, 18, whom Bronzi commends for staying dedicated even after being wounded and witnessing another marine's jaw shot off, has adjusted his expectations.
.
"I can't say we're failing in our mission," he concluded at the end of the talk around the card table. "Our mission has changed. It's just to kill the bad guys. And we're doing that."
.

[Tab]

When you are in the Forces, you are your Governments muscle, and you go where you are told and do what you are told. Now you joined the forces for what ever reason, so there is little point in worrying what you doing there, just keep your head down and try and make sure that you are going to be one those that makes it home. If you don't want to be there why did you join? did you think it was going to be a easy job with some nice overseas postings, well it is most times. Now life has changed and there are a lot of problems in the world that need some super power to sort out. Now in Britain they have been in constant action since the end of WW2 and the only year they have not had a soldier in COMBAT was in 1969, that is 58 years of fighting and dieing.

[Packo]

Welcome Tab! Have a cousin in Cambridge. He's Scottish and a Doctor. Nice to have you aboard, and I agree with what you posted.

Name a soldier in any war that didn't know why he was really there and wanted to get the heck home. Old news from the new war.

Packo

[Seascamp]

And in the 18th century it was customary to have a funeral service for the fellows that got conscripted. Yes, the conscripted attended their own funeral. In Europe, the usual tour of duty for the conscripted was 25 years and the survival rate was zip. If a disease didn?t finish off a conscript than a wound of any kind did. All the germs and bacteria of Europe not on a sword, jabbing weapon or musket ball were certainly on their clothing or on the surgeon?s hands. And conditions were infinitely worse in the Navies of the time. Add scurvy and general malnutrition plus severe conditions and exceptionally brutal treatment to what the Army conscripts endured, and that?s what the Jack Tars lived with.
Oh, the Navies of the time didn?t bother with conscription, they just sent out ?press gangs? to grab any likely specimen they could find, melon thunk them with a belaying pin (billy club) and haul them back to the ship, usually in a sea bag so as to not send up the hue and cry.
I can just imagine what the various Army conscripts and pressed Sailors of those times talked about. Probably similar conversations went on but a heck of a lot more fatalistic and resigned I?d guess. Maybe that explains why a few hundred would nicely line up opposite each other and on command, would fire their muskets or cannon at each other at virtual point blank range. Perhaps that was their version of an honorable discharge.

Welcome aboard Tab, grab a seat and chair down.

Scamp

[MORTARDUDE]

Welcome aboard Tab !!

Larry

Huh?

[Boats]

Hello Tab - we appreciate your input - welcome to the club - its nice to have one of the Queens Own. A jumper too - ouch I don't know how you guys can do such a thing. I had to jump once for a MIL course I was in but after that I knew this wasn't my bag.

Well once more - Welcome Aboard Mate

[revwardoc]

Seascamp,

Check out http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/grub/press.htm and http://www.the-old-sea-dog.net/uk9.html for some good stories about press gangs.

[Tab]

Thanks for the kind words Guys

Tab

Boy does this sound familiar, just like the attitude we developed in Vietnam. A happy Solider or Marine is one who is bitching. Keep up the good job guys. Tab welcome to the bb. Look forward to some more of your posts.