The Face of My Enemy

[Seascamp]

To my knowledge objective, accurate, honest and scholarly works that cover the time between the US withdrawal from SEA and the fall of Saigon is yet to be produced in the US. Coincidently, Phnom Penh, Cambodia fell on the exact same day, almost to the hour, but that is another story of when the nightmares and holocaust began in earnest on both sides of the border and covers the years from 1975 to 1980.
I highly doubt a definitive works covering 1972 -1975 will be researched and written in the US within the next decade or so as the conflicts of interest are way to intense and the current vested interest is in perpetuating myth after myth. But the bright side is that the Asian media and some Asian research scholars have no such inhabitations and it can be a real head slap to read their versions of what went on. Even the current Vietnamese press is far more forthcoming when it suits their purposes. Anyway, I remember the period leading up to the fall of Saigon and the US media focused on the cowardly ARVN running away, etc., and some mention of PAVN armor was made but not to any great depth or emphasis that I recall.
Then kabooom, I was working in the Moi Hung oil fields just prior to the big 25th celebrations of 2000. The whole theme was ?We kicked America?s ass? and of course they were strutting their stuff and showing their proud meat. That is where I first saw the newspaper pics of the massive Soviet/PAVN armored columns descending on Saigon. For the actual celebrations I went back to Singapore as all of VN was shut down for the holiday and I didn?t care for the nasty atmosphere going on. Sen. McClain was there and managed to get in a real nasty biff with the VN Gvt. Bubbas and that got a ton of local coverage, big time, so I wasn?t all that interested in the fallout from that flail. Anyway, the Asian Times had a special edition that covered the fall of Saigon complete with pics of the massive armored columns, interviews with US and PAVN participants, etc. Wow, all new to me and I was stunned, absolutely stunned, but not at all surprised.
I would have no idea as to how much Soviet/PAVN armor was involved but thousands would not be unrealistic and was reported by the Times. One US helicopter pilot said he could see armored columns as far as he could see and he said that the columns had halted and he opined that they were waiting for the US to completely evacuate Saigon.
As to who was actually coordinating an armored invasion of that scope and scale , well, it is no secret who was actually running the PAVN show from mid 1966 on and it?s no secret as to who had the technology, industry and capability to mount such a huge and complex effort. And it?s no secret that the North Vietnamese did not have the industrial or petroleum refining capacity to even think about anything like that. Nor did they have field commanders that had the background skills to run anything of that complexity and scope.
And sadly, there is no doubt and as a matter of record, the US Congress cut off all aid to the RVN and left them totally defenseless against an onslaught of that magnitude. So yes, abandon boots for sure and that pic ought to hang right in the halls of Congress where it belongs.
As to PAVN armor during the War, yes, there was some in the border areas and along the NV coast but a Soviet T-54 was no match for the air cover the US put up so, at least in my area, they didn?t break from cover often. At least the USN had developed a way the pop the turret off in one pass with a 25 mm cannon and that was it for the T-54 crew, post haste, no contest at all. But in high density rain forest areas I could see where they would be very formidable if they could get around. But I wouldn?t know about that for sure.
As to the reasons we are so ignorant, misinformed and media bound on all this is anyone?s guess; but not mine, and I?ll leave it at that.


Scamp

[DMZ-LT]

I never saw a tank at Khe Shan but I could hear them. They dropped us extra LAWS. PT 76 hit a mine in 68 at Ben Het.. I heard in Lam Son 719 there were more tanks than the Germans invaded France with. We lost a lot of choppers. Once walked up on an abandoned 51 pit. complete. They must have heard us coming and I was trying to be sneaky to - not good but at least they left.

[Arrow]

So yes, abandon boots for sure and that pic ought to hang right in the halls of Congress where it belongs.

What Scamp said...

And thank you to Scamp and Scout for the history lesson. I often wonder how many thousands were murdered after the country was "Liberated".

Arrow>>>>>>>

[Seascamp]

The internationally agreed upon number in Cambodia alone is right about two-million, or one third of the Cambodian population at the time. The Vietnamese numbers are yet unknown but reasonably credible sources with a vested interest in a high number say between four and six hundred thousand simply went poof. Maybe accurate, maybe not, I don?t know.
As a note of interest, the Vietnamese actor who portrayed the North Vietnamese General in Mel Gibson?s movie ?We were Soldiers? was subsequently arrested by the Vietnamese authorities and imprisoned for the movie work. Last I heard he was released from prison due to international pressure and was confined to his home. My guess is that he will also go poof when the coast is clear for such actions.

The book ?Voices from S-21? by the Australian History Prof David Chandler is a look at the very tip of the iceberg of what really happened to ?Liberated? people during those holocaust times. This reading is not for everyone, so be warned, it?s ugly and gruesome as all hell.

Scamp

[Arrow]

Scamp,

I am now and will be forever sad because of the horror of those killing fields. I will look for the book.

Thank you....

[BLUEHAWK]

Scout/Scamp...

Good grief... 57 freakin' years old, paying attention ALL this whole time, and not once, nary a first time before now has anyone ever said any of what either of you just said in public where I could read it.

My mental tendons have been tightened considerably.

Scout - "chained to their positions", is this meant literally or as metaphor?

Scamp - It IS, from me anyhow, who exactly was running the PAVN from 1966 on. Who was?

[BLUEHAWK]

Scout, Scamp, anybody -

IS there a NV general whom our men found honor in/respected as a commander of troops, tactician etc... sort of like some felt about Rommel?

[Packo]

Scamp and Scout,

Thanks for replenishing our minds with the true history of the end of that war. As I stated....nobody was beating us when I left, but I was not in Jame's unit so I can only speak for myself. He and the rest of the 101st were playing hell in the A Shau valley. I thought they were winning, though.

I never bought into that farmer crap. I fought NVA my whole time there. These troops probably had former farmers in it but then again, so was our military. We were not professionals. Mostly 3 year RA's and 2 year US's. I can guarentee the NVA were professionals. If you read the book, "A hard rain's gonna fall", it's the true story of a guy I know who was in Vietnam. He was hiding in a Pleiku whore house with 2 NVA because the MP's were around. The NVA were just there for the same thing he was. They told him they didn't want to be in SVN any more than he did. Not all of them wanted to "liberate" the south. Farmers, I don't think so. Professional soldiers against a non-professional army, yes. Who won, the non-professionals until we left. I do remember all the tanks coming accross the border. I also remember the media not wanting to show much of that.

Packo

[Packo]

I forgot something else at the time. When Pol Pots Red Army supported by the Red Chinks began murdering Cambodians by the millions, Joan Baez wanted to protest the murders. She asked her friend Hanoi Jane to help out and go with her to Thailand. Jane told her that the war was over, the people had won, and she was through with it. It is my understanding they haven't spoken since. See, Jane couldn't believe her fun loving, liberating Commies would do such a thing.

Jane Fonda at Duke University: "You should all get down on your knees and pray to God that this country becomes Communist". Right Jane, Pray to God?????? Only showed how ignorant the whore was.

Packo

[exlrrp]

Well you know, Istarted out writing a long indignant letter refuting some of these claims--The tank commanders weren't Vietnamese?? Bizarre--Ive seen the pictures. But then I thought: wot th fck?? I have no notion I will ever change some of these minds, theyre still on a HatetheVietnamese mindset. Sorry I don't join in on this guys, I'm trying to act like a grownup who works the AA program--you know the tolerance-openminded-forgiving thing. Itshard but I keep trying
I can see real clearly that som of these are just another indication that lots of Americans hate th Vietnamese and arent going to quit no matter what. The Vietnamese Commmunists are the worst people in the world, they only get people to do what they want by enslaving them. So they were always bad and we were always good? Too bad we couldn't convince the Vietnamese of that
Well for starters, thank God even George W Bush is smart enough to kick that kind of BS to the curb. Carrying on that kind of hatred and resentment isn't going to do anyone any good but some people just love to keep it going. We're going to be doing a lot of business in the future with these people---obviously some of us are already doing so regardless of our feelings about them-- so get used to it. I don't have to put you down and make you wrong, history will do it for me.

This book is intersting to me mainly because it shows the Vietnamese we fought as human. The spirit that won that war for them was not manufactured in Moscow or Beijing, it came from the Vietnamese themselves.We didn't want to loook at them as human because it made it easier to kill them--at least I did that but now I'm sure there'll be a bunch of claims that NO ONE else did that. Yeah, right.
This book shows them as human, shows their suffering and their courage--I know I know--they couldn't have had any of that that wasn't supplied by Moscow, right? No wonder we (America!!) lost.
There's lots of folks that won't believe the Vietnamese Communists were human--they shouldn't read this book, it wll only bum them out. If you want to carry your hatred and resntment on, count me out for sure this time--I gave last time
This picture is me and some nice happy kids I had a good time with in Pleiku last year but they might have been evil Commie Youth League spies out to ferret sensitive classified information out of me. You just never know with these wily Orientals can't trust a one of em I guess

Doesn't Ho look like Colonel Sanders?

James

PS, thats a huge Catholic church in the right background with a 20' high stained glass window