The Separation Of Fools, Church & State

[BLUEHAWK]

K -
A lot of truth in what you've said here.

I see it like this, having that monument in the courthouse is about as offensive/oppressive as having a coke or pepsi machine in their break room. It does not mean that the State of Alabama wants everyone to accept coke or pepsi, but it's available in case of thirst.

There's nothin' wrong with the thing being there because, for one thing, having it there would soothe the worried brows of devout christians and help get that dang issue out of the headlines for awhile so America can go on to more important, or at least AS important, matters... such as the economy and a few wars we're fightin' in various places.

I remember, too, when God wasn't in the pledge. At school we had a heckuva time trying to remember to slip those two words in there every day. But, I don't recall it seeming offensive or weird in any way. Still don't, for that matter.

I guess those two words got put in because the McCarthyites were sick afraid communistic aetheism was takin' control of the whole entire world...including Springfield, Minnesota. I'm prety sure, though, it wasn't those two words that brought down the Berlin Wall.

I've got some "issues" with our national anthem too, such as the fact that of the three most likely choices, we had the war song picked for us.

I'll vote for your "You can't Fool Mother Nature!" sign (or monument) in any courthouse or school in the nation too.

[philly]

Some of our American brothers/sisters witnessed a change in our Nat'l Anthem and would rather not have it. But, there are those of us who recite the Nat'l Anthem with tears in our eyes and/or a lump in our throats. Some of you are opposed to Christian Religion. Some of you want separation of state and religion. There are those of us who believe in Jesus Christ, but do not believe in forcing our religious beliefs on others. The sculpture of the Ten Commandments is a representation of moral laws than that of religion. When one reads Buddha?s writings, does one make the connection that it is only for Buddhists? I think not. We can all afford to learn from each other no matter what religious background we come from.

Our country went through a whirlwind in the 60's and 70's. Some of our people believed in free love and drug experimentation. Those people helped pave the way for future generations of druggies and illegitimate children. Today, we are working on ways of reducing the number of illegitimate children by teaching our children abstinence and birth control/ protection. We have created programs in our schools to help educate our children to say "No" to drugs. We are trying to correct the things that went astray long ago.

There were protesters against the Vietnam War. I, for one, was just a baby when the Vietnam War was fought. Yet, my generation admires and respects those men who didn't have a clear objective in why they were fighting that war. What became most important to them was fighting for the men next to them. Today, we enlist in our Military without the draft. We protest against the war protesters.

With all that we do to try to change the ills of the past or keep moral beliefs, we run into stumbling blocks from people who do not consider certain moral belief as ?politically correct?. What ever happened to being morally correct????

[BLUEHAWK]

Nice one philly...

[philly]

Hey Mike,

You wrote some good one's too friend.

[kmetz]

I really hate to burst your bubble, Philly, but the generation of the 60's and 70's were not the first Americas to experiment with drugs and have illegitimate children. Have you researched your ancestors? Well, I have and I have found that there were probably just as many illegitimate births per capita in 1776 as in 1976. My great-great grandmother on my maternal side had three illegitimate children in the 1840's. A great-grandmother on my paternal side had an illegitimate child in the 1880's. There was an uncle of mine in 1806 that was sued for "bastardy" and convicted. I think you will find that immorality is just about what it has been throughout America's history--we just know more about it now. As to drug use I'd say that it was way more out of control in the period 1900-1920's, than in the 1960's or since. Now of course I'm throwing in the biggest drug use of all--alcohol!

[kmetz]

I think if you'll go to this site you'll see that the by far the largest amount of recreational drug use deaths are caused by "legal" drugs.

http://bbsnews.net/drug-deaths.html

[philly]

Kmetz,

I wouldn?t sling insults around. We may not agree on a subject but we give each other respect and show decorum while we interface here at PF.

As for the 60's & 70's, it was a time of the sexual revolution. It was a time when some people shared themselves freely and openly. There were consequences to this action such as, illegitimate babies and abortions. Veneral diseases were widespread. The number of illegitimate children far exceeded any other generation in the U.S.

As for drug consumption, it became "okay" to experiment with heavy drugs such as, LSD and PCP. Drugs became accessible and profitable. Many lives were ruined including the innocent babies born to the drug users. We have a war on drugs in the U.S. Did we have a war on drugs before the 60's? I think not. If you want to count prohibition then I'd be factually wrong..

[BLUEHAWK]

Philly & K -
Couple of things, noticed from PF threads over time...

- There are some here who have close knowledge, or claim to, of exactly the ways in which drug traffic finances world-wide terrorism. I can imagine that being the case, but have no specific information, nor have I seen any real proof here on PF, yet (though surely there must be some that CAN be shared). I know that, e.g. our nation and others were collaborating in the Golden Triangle of Asia in manufacture and distribution of Class A narcotics, but I have often wondered to what extent the cocaine/marijuana wars being waged, by our troops in many cases, south of us are, in fact, not being "won" on purpose, or being lost by some means unknown to us... some or most of which began during the 1960s. Speculation of course, but it is my feeble understanding that drug production in Afghanistan still today simply cannot or will not be curtailed, for a variety of reasons, and in some cases may be a) the sole local crop or product for sale, and b) therefore the sole source of income with which our allies in that nation are able to finance their help to our people in-country.

- I discovered yesterday that the word "assassin" is derived from the Arabic language, meaning "hashish addict".

- As for the war on drugs, most of which "ordinary" ones (opium, marijuana, cocaine) were completely legally prescribed by physicians until about 50 years ago. I am pretty sure that in San Francisco, for example, some effort was made to prevent Chinese from using and selling opium long long ago last century. Maybe that was when the war on drugs began? Of course, we know that cocaine was, I believe, an ingredient in the original Coca Cola, etc.

You both raise interesting ideas because just about anyone older than 45 would agree SOMETHING very disruptive did happen among americans culturally/morally between 1960-1975, and not solely due to an undeclared war.

[BLUEHAWK]

K -
That recreational drug use graph IS alarming, even if close to being true.

On another thread I got started wondering about the so-called "G0" and "NO GO" drugs that our troops were (or still are , for all I know) being offered in Iraq (probably elsewhere too then). I was just asking what the drugs were, and if anybody knew of any effects that, presumably, uppers and downers might have on people day in and day out. I think I put it in the "Iraqi Freedom" forum.

Didn't get very far with that, but it does concern some of us because of how the DOD (or somebody out there) did experiments on our soldiers in the past with LSD and a huge number, TRULY H U G E NUMBER, of other toxic substances. My dad eventually died of the effects from exposure to radiation at White Sands & Los Alamos during WW II... so, it's all tied in somehow I guess... whether the drugs are "legal" or "illegal" seems to actually be fairly arbitrary.

[HARDCORE]

BLUEHAWK -

Interesting bit of information on hashish (assassins)!

As for the part about experimentation, it was indeed sad to hear about your dad at White Sands (I am my brother's keeper in some cases)! And yes, and this is not a "Conspiracy Theory", experimentation ran rampant and virtually unchecked within the military and elsewhere, especially during the Cold War (Spy v Spy Era)!! [ref: especially- DAIG-IN 21-75, COS Memo 385 and the Church Senate Reports of 1977!!]

The biggest sin of all (tragedy), however, is that some of the "Powers That Be" aided and abetted (I firmly believe) by some all-powerfull politicos and bureaucracies, still seek to bury this issue, along with the victims, under a growing mountain of politically generated excrement, lies, denial, threat and intimidation !

Those so engaged in government-sanctioned experimentation upon their peers (even those highly placed), also engage in an ongoing ?Criminal Subterfuge (opinion)!" And although protected by their odious counterparts, these "Creatures of Darkness" will someday (soon I hope) be exposed as the cowards and bastards that they really are!!

And for the record, I do not think that even Hell, nor Satanicus Himself, would accept these experimenting, un-American bastards in his midst!? Nor would he embrace those who saw (see) fit to continue to cover up the dishonor of those who gleefully experimented upon their own! (opinion)

These people (experimenters), and their lackeys, all have excuses (oxymoronic plausible denial) for their contemptible deeds, but in the end, that is all that they embody - the "WEAK EXCUSES" of dangerous fools and traitors!! (opinion)


VERITAS