Isreal

[colmurph]

Originally Posted by phuloi

OK..Back to politics as usual here. We need to continue with our watchdog designation and be vigilant , alert, and aware.
So: How long do you think it will take Obama, reid, and Pelosi to throw the Zionist Isrealis under the bus?

Should be very interesting to hear what the Jewish majority in Cherry Hill have to say about the man they elected, a year from now. Remember, they were eager for Hitler to become chancellor before they found out what he was really up to.

[Seascamp]

I very much resent the US being forced into the Israeli caretaker mode by the pathetic hypocrites that created the Exodus in the first place. Namely, the Germans, Russians and the shameless French. Probably not well known, but the French had a very large paramilitary unit of Frenchmen whose sole task was to round up French Jews and feed them into the maw of the German killing machine. The foul-mouthed French politicos that have nothing but distain for the Israelis but will not tell the French people of their own culpability in the butchery and murder of tens of thousands of innocent French people , no, I don’t think so.

These days, the French, Germans and Russians make big bucks providing lethal weaponry to those intent on eradicating Israel to the last breathing person. And worse yet, our own Demos weasel around, grab the Jewish money, then go do supportive belly rubs with Israel’s mortal enemies and yet hide behind hateful strawman like “experts say” and try to put Israeli support off as a “conservative agenda”.

Hey, I did some work in the port of Hiapha at one time, felt like a stranger in a strange land, fair enough. But that is no reason for me to forget history or buy into some Liberal “experts say” abandonment-hate the Israelis trip. If there is to be Holocaust II , then Obama owns 100% of it. He knows that or will know it if he dances with who bring him.

But then, the Demos totally ignored the Asian Holocaust, so anything is possible.

Scamp

PS: Mayhaps Abagore is renting out his “experts” to render opinions, but for a fee, of course.



Scamp

[phuloi]

OK...We have a wide spectrum of thought ranging from Israel can take care of herself to a second holocaust, and then there`s James who, as usual had zero to say regarding the thread but continues bashing Bush in response to a query about the new administration.

[darrels joy]

Obama Promises Improved Ties With Egypt, Syria

• Middle East Newsline
• November 05, 2008

WASHINGTON [MENL] -- Presidential-elect Barack Obama has promised to improve U.S. relations with Egypt and Syria.

Aides said Obama had sent senior foreign policy adviser Robert Malley to Egypt and Syria over the last few weeks to outline the Democratic candidate's policy on the Middle East. The aides said Malley, who served in the administration of President Bill Clinton, relayed a pledge from Obama that the United States would seek to enhance relations with Cairo as well as reconcile with Damascus.

"The tenor of the messages was that the Obama administration would take into greater account Egyptian and Syrian interests," an aide said.

http://www.menewsline.com/article-19...ises-Improved-
Ties-With.aspx

Remember Robert Malley ? A few months ago when I wrote about him being part of Obama's Anti-Jew crew and was blasted by the NY Times (Something I consider a great achievement). Malley learned about the Middle East at the foot of his Father's good friend Yassir Arafat.

As Ed Laskey Described almost a year ago:

Through his writings he has served as a willing propagandist, bending the truth (and more) to serve an agenda that is marked by anti-Israel bias; he heads a group of Middle East policy advisers for a think-tank funded (in part) by anti-Israel billionaire activist George Soros; and now is on the foreign policy staff of a leading Presidential contender. Each step up the ladder seems to be a step closer towards his goal of empowering radicals and weakening the ties between American and our ally Israel.

Robert Malley's writings strike me as being akin to propaganda. One notable example is an op-ed that was published in the New York Times (Fictions About the Failure at Camp David).The column indicted Israel for not being generous enough at Camp David and blamed the failure of the talks on the Israelis.

Malley has repeated this line of attack in numerous op-eds over the years, often co-writing with Hussein Agha, a former adviser to Yasser Arafat (see, for example, Camp David: The Tragedy of Errors ). He was also believed to be the chief source for an article by Deborah Sontag that whitewashed Arafat's role in the collapse of the peace process, an article that has been widely criticized as riddled with errors and bias.

Malley is a revisionist and his views are sharply at odds with the views of others who participated at Camp David, including Ambassador Dennis Ross and President Bill Clinton. Malley's myth-making has beenpeddled Counterpunch and by Norman Finkelstein, the failed academic denied tenure at DePaul University . Malley's Camp David propaganda has also become fodder for Palestinians, Arab rejectionists, and anti-Israel activists across the world.

Malley was supposedly fired by the campaign for having secret meetings with Hamas, but he was a willing sacrifical lamb to make Obama Look good. Obvously despite the campaign denials he is still involved.

Friends this is just the start of Obama's efforts to destroy Israel. Maybe the Palestinians will throw a party for the 77% of American Jews who committed Jew-icide last Tuesday.
http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2008/...l-already.html

[Seascamp]

Not a big issue with having a dialog with Syria. But the issue with discourse with the hungry wolves is first, don’t get eaten, and second decide whom is to be given up as a meal for the hungry wolf. The question then becomes exactly which population Obama is going to allow to be fed to the hungry wolf. Lebanon for sure, most likely Jordan, perhaps Iraq and then the end of days scenario, Israel.
Corrupt Syria is a toady for Iran and Pelosi’s musings about; “ Peace flows though Damascus” is self-serving frababba. It remains so, feeding hungry wolves only creates more hungry wolves. I mean this isn’t new stuff, my primer on ME issues was the book “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” by T.E. Laurence (AKA; Laurence of Arabia). That was required reading whilst en route to my first job out of VN. Oh, jasus one doesn’t go tromping around in the North African or ME oil patch without knowing where the hot buttons and land mines are, grief.

Obama needs determine exactly which population is going to be fed to the Syrian wolves, no more no less.

Scamp

[darrels joy]

Obama’s success potentially beneficial for region, but many are cautious

By Abdel-Rahman Hussein
First Published: November 6, 2008

CAIRO: Initial regional reactions to Barack Obama’s victory in the US presidential elections mirror those in the United States with much to be hopeful about.

But all optimism is tinted with a note of caution; it is impossible to expect dramatic change in a region that has been simmering in turmoil for over half a century.

This caution has been justified by Obama’s first staff appointment, offering the chief of staff position to Democratic Congressman Rahm Emanual. The Chicago representative is the son of an Israeli who was a member of the Irgun, famous for its role in the Deir Yassin massacre of Palestinians in 1948.

On the flipside, it emerged that Obama had sent his senior foreign policy advisor Robert Malley to both Cairo and Damascus these past few weeks to outline the president-elect’s plans for the region, which indicates a willingness to further strengthen ties with staunch US ally Egypt and begin boosting relations with Syria.

President Hosni Mubarak sent Wednesday his congratulations to Obama along with the hope that he would work towards a just settlement in the Middle East, with the peace process currently in disarray a year after the Annapolis summit.
Meanwhile, the Muslim Brotherhood’s supreme guide Mohamed Mahdi Akef called on Obama to put an immediate stop to the “criminality” of the incumbent Bush administration against the Arab and Muslim world.

And while he saw Obama’s victory as a positive step and repudiation of the Bush administration, Akef said, “He must atone for the sins of America.” Directing his comments at Obama he added, “I hope you build your policy in the Arab and Islamic world on the respect for justice and freedom for everybody … and I invite you to respect democracy and human rights.”

Yet the histrionics of the Arabic press that a man with a Muslim name had been elected to the highest office in the US was also tempered by the belief that while the image has changed drastically for the better, US policy, especially in the Middle East, will not undergo a similar transformation.

The Egyptian newspaper Al-Badeel said in an editorial that Obama’s victory “doesn’t mean that we’re about to witness a radical change in American policy” and that not much would change for the Arab nations in the region, as US policy is all about “preserving Israel’s superiority over all its Arab neighbors and [having] oil at an acceptable price.”

Indeed Obama and his running mate Joe Biden have been at pains to display their support for Israel, with Obama promising Jerusalem to be the “undivided” capital of Israel and Biden stating that Israel would not find a better friend than him.

Reactions from Israeli politicians have also been positive about Obama’s victory, denoting that it would in no way weaken relations between the two.

“Israeli-US relations are a special relationship based on values and common interest, with tight cooperation. Israel and the United States both desire to maintain and strengthen these relations,” said outgoing Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said, “During Barack Obama's recent visit to Israel, and especially during the tour we conducted together in the city of Sderot, the people of Israel were impressed by his commitment to the peace and security of Israel.”

“Israel looks forward to continued close strategic cooperation with the new administration, the new president and the US Congress, in order to continue to strengthen the lasting special relationship between our two countries,” she added.

However, Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal said before the election results came through that the Palestinian group was ready for dialogue with any US leader.

“We are ready to deal with any presidential candidate, but we will always stick to our rights. We acknowledge that the United States is powerful, but we are more powerful in our territory,” he said.

And if the peace process is one Middle East issue on Obama’s plate, there is also the matter of Iraq and its neighbor Iran.

Iraqi government spokesman Ali Dabbagh said, “The government has a sincere desire to cooperate with the elected president in order to achieve the joint interests of the two sides, preserve the security and stability of Iraq, maintain the full sovereignty of Iraq and protect the interests of its people.”

While in Iran, Ali Haddad Adil, a senior advisor for Supreme Leader Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei said, “The American people have to change their policies in order to get rid of the quagmire created by President Bush for them.”

However, before all of this Obama will find himself assuming office with a staggering series of problems to contend with, chief amongst them an economic crisis not seen for generations and two wars the US is already committed in, as he said in his acceptance speech.

And while his advisors want to avoid the mistakes of his predecessors and formulate a foreign policy strategy right away, Obama might find that there are other issues that need his immediate attention.

http://dailystaregypt.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=17632

sent his senior foreign policy advisor Robert Malley to both Cairo and Damascus these past few weeks

I could have sworn that the election was just last week.

[SuperScout]

Originally Posted by phuloi

OK...We have a wide spectrum of thought ranging from Israel can take care of herself to a second holocaust, and then there`s James who, as usual had zero to say regarding the thread but continues bashing Bush in response to a query about the new administration.

How true! Not for want of trying, but for the Bush administration not to have accomplished anything of substance in an area that has known nothing but war or its concomitant tensions is not surprising. And slurp is quick to call Bush a liar, when he penned the ultimate lie about me and my wartime service. And he's too chicken-sh*t to either try to back it up, or profusely apologize for the libel he created.

[darrels joy]

.....
Exit question one: It’d be a lot easier to throw rocks here if the Bush team hadn’t already started meeting with Iran, huh? Exit question two: Since Team Barry’s now, allegedly, granting amnesty to former aides who sinned against the campaign, when does Samantha Power come back aboard?

Update: This piece in Forbes confirms that Malley did meet with Syria — but in his role for the International Crisis Group. The only evidence that he was there at Obama’s behest appears to be an assumption made by Syrian state media that he was still working for the campaign:

What really attracted attention, though, was that on the same day a Web site closely associated with the government published a translation of a lecture Malley had delivered at Yale, offering effusive praise for it.

The site referred to Malley as a senior adviser to Barack Obama on the Middle East, even though the Obama campaign says Malley’s role was never official. In any case, the campaign dropped him as too controversial after it was reported that he had met with Hamas officials. The Web site further stated that Malley’s opinions would shape the next U.S. president’s ideas about the Middle East, noting that, unlike the Bush administration, Malley supported a peace agreement between Syria and Israel–which would weaken Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas.

The site noted that Obama had twice echoed Malley in stating that the failure of the war in Iraq had strengthened Iran’s influence. But if the Obama campaign has indeed severed its ties to Malley, it seems that Syrian officials are overestimating his influence.

The cloak and dagger theory here would be that he is still working for the campaign and meeting with people under aegis of the ICG to maintain plausible deniability, but if that’s the case, why would Syrian media blow his cover? All it’ll do is piss Obama off.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/1...ks-with-syria/

[darrels joy]

Israel: The One Bomb State

Israel faces grave political and military challenges on all fronts. Terrorism via the Palestinians in Israel, Hamas in Gaza and a powerful Hizbullah in Lebanon are deeply troubling issues. But the greatest existential threat to Israel is Iran's single-minded pursuit of nuclear technology. To understand the complex military issues involved Seraphic Secret has turned to our knowledgeable and close friend Air Force Officer for this penetrating analysis.

The Patriot Missile System.
In the nuke business, we occasionally run across the phrase "one-bomb state." It's our way of saying that a particular nation-state would be decimated—economically, politically, militarily—by a single nuclear detonation. Estimating who can take what is an art, not a science as it's been sixty plus years since the last time an atomic weapon was used in combat. Figure Russia, The United States, and China are 20-25 bomb states, while most of the larger European nations are 10-15 bomb states.

Israel, however, is a one bomb state.

Of course, targeting and geography play a role. We assume that atomic bursts would be city killers when tinkering around with these equations. Israel could suck up a bomb or two in the Negev, just as the United States could absorb 20-25 in places like Nevada, Wyoming, and New Mexico. Properly diversified over a range of inconsequential terrain, of course.
But a thermonuclear air burst over, say, Tel Aviv? Fuggedaboudit. Kiss the wonderful little Jewish State goodbye.
In short, one-bomb state, because one bomb is all it takes.

So: Israel is right and properly freaked out over Iran and Syria pursuing nuclear technology, while United States is right and properly freaked out over the possibility of a nuclear exchange in the Middle East. In fact, the two are so concerned, they're sinking billions into a multi-layered, highly robust missile defense shield right there over Israel and the Med.
The big newskie is this: the United States will be deploying troops to Israel to stand up an x-band radar, one that will be capable of detecting, processing, and alarming the authorities to a regional ballistic missile launch. Not exactly sure which country concerns Israel the most, but I think it's a pretty solid assumption that this thing is going to be pointed in a easterly direction.

Now, US troops have spent plenty of time in Israel on exercises and conferences—even real world situations like Operation_Nickel_Grass during the '73 War—but I'm fairly certain that this is the first time American troops have permanently bedded down in the Promised Land.

The x-band will process information directly to European Command, but, as I understand it, that information will be instantly shared with Israeli authorities. From there, Israel is free to power-up her missile defense assets.

Which are becoming formidable, I might add. Here's the dime tour.


Arrow Missile Simulation

First is the Arrow, a theater ground-based system that's proved effective against simulated SCUD attacks. From what I can tell, the Arrow is a highly reliable system that forms the current backbone of Israel's missile defense infrastructure. You'll have to fact-check me on this, but I believe the Israelis have stood up three operational batteries of Arrows, which presumably is enough to withstand a large-scale short-to-medium range ballistic missile strike. However, as with US carrier battle groups, missile defense relies on a multiple weapon systems effective at a variety of ranges. Redundancy, redundancy, redundancy.


David's Sling; Biblical names just roll off the tongue.

Enter David's Sling, aka the 'Stunner', an Israeli weapons project still in the test phases. I can't really tell what DS is designed to defend against, other than, y'know—rockets. All the kinks are still being worked out, and it probably won't be operational for another half-decade. It's a terminal phase kill vehicle, but I haven't been able to gather whether or not it's a kinetic kill vehicle or if it's got explosives packed into the nose. I'm thinking that type of system could be used against Hizbullah's Katyusha rockets that were such a pain in the ass during the '06 Lebanon War, but with terminal kill vehicles there's an assumption that they can be effective against local MRBM (read: SCUDS).
So what to do with short-range rockets? Y'know, the nasty little Qassams that the terrorists fire from the Gaza strip and such?

One thing about the Jews, if Robert may allow me to positively stereotype here, is that they think of everything. Learned that when I studied in Israel. When Americans think of missile defense, they think of a shield from the heavy shooters: North Korea and Iran, even China. But when the Israelis think of missile defense, they think of missile and rocket defense. If it flies and carries a warhead, Israel wants to be able to kill it.


Iron Dome, a rocket battery plus radar-detection system, um, theoretically.

That's where Iron Dome comes into play. Iron Dome is a 20-rocket battery plus radar-detection system designed to be deployed around urban centers. I think of that old arcade game Missile Command to visualize. If—and that's a big 'if'—Iron Dome works, it'd render towns along Israel's northern and southern borders immune to Hamas and Hezzy rocket barrages. Of course that's the problem: no one knows if the thing works yet. And it'd take one radar + battery per urban center to guarantee effectiveness, which makes Iron Dome a pricey system of questionable reliability.

Back up to big picture.

There are two American systems that will come to an Israeli theater near you in the distant to near future. We all know the Patriot. That'll be deployed against baddies like Iran. The new kid on the block is the US Army's THAAD system, the Terminal High Altitude Air Defense System that's designed to work hand-in-hand with the Patriot PAC-3s that we're sending east. Though THAAD is still in development, it's seen some phenomenal successes over at the White Sands test facility in New Mexico. As the name implies, the system is designed to kill a ballistic missile at extremely high altitude, as the missile transitions from it's mid-course to terminal reentry phase. It's one of those "last line of defense" toys. We hope never to use them.


THADD, a terminal high altitude system, a last line of defense.
I'm not sure when, exactly, THAAD will be in Israel. A few years is my guess. The US Army recently stood up a THAAD unit in Alaska which *should* be operational as soon as next year. When we start exporting? Who knows.

So let me wrap up with Iran. To answer the question that's no doubt lingering in everyone's mind: I'm not sure what impact this will have on Israeli plans to strike the Mullahs. At the moment, there's a technological race between Israel and Iran.
Iran to: A) develop a bomb and B) to shrink said bomb and mate it to a successful delivery system.
Israel to stand up a missile defense system robust enough to assure their safety from a full ballistic missile laydown.

If Israel starts to lose that race, they strike Iran. If Israel wins, there's a possibility that she stands behind her missile shield and assume a spin-off of the mutually assured destruction policy: “You shoot at us, you might get a SCUD or two through our defense. But we guarantee that your destruction is assured, irrespective of the success of your attack.”

Whether or not that's the proper course of action, well—you all can duke that out. Those are the stakes, those are the players. The game, from here on out, should be very, very interesting.
Crossposted on DefenseTech.org.

http://www.seraphicpress.com/archive...el_the_one.php

[phuloi]

Very interesting stuff, Joy. Thanks. But my head is spinning here..If there`s MAD between Israel and Iran, who takes home all the chips? My guess is that any thermo-nuclear detonation in the Middle East will result in Armegeddon, which would explain why the US is deploying defense systems. Wonder if B. Hussein Obama was briefed today?