Deleted Scene makes my Blood Boil!

[JBozeman]

They cut this scene and it tells the entire story of Nam. The Slaughter of LZ Albany was swept under the rug. Their little experiment was accurately assessed and discribed in the this scene and they cut it! I don't know if this debriefing is historically correct but the this scene nails Nam and the Powers to be during the time!

Here is a Battlefield Commander trying to talk some sense into a Commanding Gerneral and an out of McNamara. Neither will listen!

YouTube - debriefing

BTW: Whoever posted this on Youtube edited the clip, if you have the DVD you can view the entire delete scene list and this clip in entirity there.

Still makes my blood boil!



Take Care
Stay Safe

[SuperScout]

I firmly believe that there is a special place in Hell for Robert Strange McNamara, a holdover from the Kennedy administration, who was so lacking in character, integrity and personal honesty that rather resign from the SecoDef position, he continued on, irrespective of the fact that he opposed the war, and didn't think that it was winnable from a military perspective. A more despicable POS I cannot imagine.

[reconeil]

Was that: "LZ Albany" you referred to the same New LZ that The 2nd of The Seventh relieving the The 1st of The Seventh after their 3 day battle, were QUITE STUPIDLY Ordered to march to?

If so, it's my understanding that Big Brass quite foolishly ordered relieving 2nd Sqdn of The 7th Cavalry cleaning up at LZ Xray, to leave What Had To Be The Most Safest of LZs On Earth then, via another LZ. No-way-in-hell were North Vietnamese coming back there & then.

So, and instead of sanely & safely returning to base from LZ Xray, those poor souls of HHT 2/7 CAV SQDN were ordered to single file march through a knowingly NVA infested jungle, to their newly cleared LZ Albany.

Didn't seem mattering to American Brass that there were no doubt still THOUSANDS of bloodied NVA Division soldiers licking their wounds & LOOKING FOR PAY-BACK, in that area.

Whatever, and since New LZ was about 2-3 miles away through hostile indian territory & Troopers single file strung-out through such was any enemy's dream come true,...The 2nd of The Seventh damn-near got annihilated. Poor Souls.

Never heard of any A--hole Big Brass even getting a slap on the wrist for what unarguably had to be The Most Stupid & UN-Caring Waste of American Lives Order...EVER GIVEN.

Is this sort-of how many of: "America's Finest" were Ordered to Their Deaths, Boze?

Such as remembered from History Channel & some segment of: "Most Decorated",...makes me want to puke from disgust. NO ONE signs up for such.

Neil

[Boats]

I don't recall seeing this in any of the flicks I saw earlier. Though the mindset of upper management is the same over and over. How Civies view a war and those who've been in it - are 180 different. The Veteran see's more than the grand overview. He lives the moment and instantly relates to the event. Killing is not a sport like uppermangement likes to view it. The animals they shoot - don't shoot back.

I've had to look into the eyes of a few folks back then (dead and alive) chill's me and I get a very cold feeling. The expressions stated in the piece above reminds me of those comments I've heard from those on the line. The "suits" or the "establishment" have never had to put their soul on the line. RECO and I touch on this on another thread earlier.

Many have seen some terrible things in their life - it makes my skin crawl justing thinking about it. The coolness by which management express's themselves makes it sound like they won a bowling tournament and they all got trophies. Perspective can only truely be understood by those who've taken it directly to enemy - straight on.

Extrapolation and exaggeration was the only way the system could get more and more troopers in the field. We all know that now - but much of the facts were falisfied or jury-rigged in order to sway those in Washington into committing more and more folks. It's a business - except they don't wear the uniform or carry the weapon in the field.

[JBozeman]

Yes, LZ Albany was the the 2/7 marching to their deaths. According to "We are Soldiers Still" the Battalion was strung out in line some 600 hundred yards long and the the Slaughter was 151 dead/130 wounded, & 4 MIA. Pages 114 and 115!

You think the above clip made you mad, when Westmoreland finally did find out what was going on and the slaughter that had taken place, his words were, "Let is Slide"! Now mind you I did type in everything here between pages 115 and 125 but some of the commanders learned what had happened and were ready for some court martials because it had already been covered over from even Westmoreland. When he did find out, he calmly and coldly said "Let it Slide"

When the shooting started Charlie Co. of 2/7 had 110 men, next morning they had 8 able to report to duty.

Politics has killed more brave men than we will ever know! "Let is Slide"? You have go to be kidding me!

Why would no body challenge Him?

I am beginning to Understand now! 1st/7th at LZ Xray was a very Sucessful Government Experiment! LZ Albany and the Slaughter of 2/7 was an unexpected disruption of the experiment and somebody was stunned (you know, that this can happen attitude) to the point of saying "Let it Slide"! and keep bringing the troops.

Gen Moore said in the book: "Our Political Leadership could not coherently explain why we were half way around the world fighting these people!" "It wasn't ours to question. We were solidiers and we followed orders!

Recon, yes that is how they were ordered to their deaths. Gen Moore covers it in the Chp entitled, "Back to the Hell that was Albany" and right away you see the line had halted, the guys were exhausted from the march, terrain, and heat. While the Column was still, the 66th Regiment with some of the 33rd Reg. NVA manuvered down one side of the line and the launched a mortar attack and charged the column. Must have been hell beyond imagination. Jack Smith, Spc 4th and Company Clerk 2/7 survived and died in 2008, of Pancreatic Cancer which probably was brought on, (his speculation) by Agent Orange. Antisipating his death he said, "this is the second time that damn war has tried to kill me!"

It is still killing guys as I am going to have to bury one of my Church Members in about 2 years dealing with the results of Agent Orange now!

I guess that is enough disertation for now. My blood is still boling, my heart grieves for these guys and their family's and I can't get away from Nam because my friend, and Church member is still dealing with Nam. Chemo Treatments the rest of his life. However on the Upside, he loves his Country and we all did what Patriots do, follow orders! God I wish Commanders and Politicians could understand.

Take Care
Stay Safe

[reconeil]

But, history shows that rarely do The TRUE Commanders of U.S. Military or basically amateur Civilian Warlords and/or Career-Politicians know diddly-squat about warfare or any lethal conflicts.

The last time any any such lordly dictatorial pompous asses butted-out & got it right, was WWII.
Allied Political Rulers did not micro-manage their militaries, as has been so common for the last 60 or so years.

Also admirals & generals were permitted acheiving Total Victory by quite Politically-Incorrectly Destroying The Enemy as best as possible.

In general (no pun intended), the main concerns of admirals & generals have been pleasing their bosses and/or Omnipotent Political Masters,...more so THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
Their jobs depend on such.

Quite obviously asinine or Enemy Helpful & self-defeating: "RULES of Engagement" rarely ever hurt Admirals, Generals & most certainly never their POLITICAL RULERS, just like as for all other Americans.

SOLELY Combat Troops (Army, Navy & Marines), their families & rest of We Americans usually bare the brunt of such little concern for Americans at war, by America's Political Ruling Elite & Warlords. What a never-ending-damn-shame!!!

Neil