Bush and Cheney's Drunken Driving Menaced America!!

[exlrrp]

Its elections season again and with George Bush and Richard Cheney, the talk must return again to their halcyon days of substance abuse, swerving around America menacing its citizens. Old news you say? Not as old as whatever happened in the Mekong Delta in the 60s, Bush got his DUI in the 80s
Now her'es an area where we know that George Bush and Dick Cheney have a LOT more experience than Kerry or Edwards:
DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED!!!
Yes our First Drunken Driver has one DUI conviction and our 2d Drunken Driver has TWO!!! The first American Presdent and Vice President to have DUI convictions.(Kerry:0 ;Edwards:0)
Now we, tha driving public, want to know more of the details of these arrests and want some justification and ap[ology for such disgraceful behavior--neither one has EVER apologized
We're not going to quarrel over the HUGE menace drunk drivers are to the public are we? I mean they kill 10s of thousans of Americans per year, OVER 10 TIMES MORE PER YEAR THAN DIED SEP 11. And Bush and Cheney drove for years that way, as all drunken driver do. How many Americans do you think were menaced over all tjhose years
Whats intersting is to consider that if George Bush had gotten arrested for it in some other state in 1987, like CA or OR, he would have gone to jail, thereby never becoming prsident. And if Dick Cheney were arrested the 2d time in ANY state now HE would have gone to jail too.
So we can safely state that the only , THE ONLY reason that Bush and Cheney are president now is that they weren't arrested for their crimes in the right state. The crimes are definitely bad enough to have done time over, especially Cheney's 2d DUI Conviction
Now there's so, so much stuff that needs to betalked about on these issues because there's starting to emerge many other stories that need to be addresssed. They might be and deserve serious attention--why, just like the Swift Boat thing.
Like: Was George Bush REALLY swerving at children and dogs. Was he a mean drunk? And Cheney!!! You KNOW he was a mean drunk!! Those tales of him doing drunken doughnuts on the lawn of an orphanage and exposing himself to the public!!! My God--could those be true?
But there are people who would swear they did happen so every.one of them should be discussed over and over. And lets put Bush and Cheney out front on this--they still havent explained such disgrraceful behavior away. Why I bet some of their defenders would even say the car became obsolete while they were driving it or that the state troopers were liberals



James Worth

[Gimpy]

I propose a NEW group to bring to light the dastardly deeds of these two malcontents...Bush & Cheney!

We could call ourselves Recovering Addictive Persons Exposing Dumbies or.........RAPED!

I think we ought to write a book and call it "Un-ABLE TO COMMAND.........due to alcohol dementia"!

What do you think about it?? :cd: :cd:

[colmurph]

How many DUI's do you two guys have?

[SuperScout]

As long as we're talking about bad driving records, let's ask the family of Mary Jo Kopeckne how they feel about Teddy Kennedy's driving record. And just in case our resident uiltra liberal malcontents don't understand history, both Bush and Cheney paid their respective debts to society following whatever they were charged with, while your porcine poster boy of bad driving simply waited a few days, and then whined his quasi-apology.

And colmurph, you can't question these two, as they are the paragons of Big Book (aka the "Go-By" book of AA) virtue, decency, and truth, or so they'll quickly remind us!

[exlrrp]

Myself: None, ever. But I was drunk and arrested for tresspassing once (Jun 69) but Bush got his 18 years later. The point here being I'm not running for president and claiming a great moral superiority over my fellow Americans who haven't been arrested. George Bush and Cheney are and they were both arrested and convicted for drunken driving, Cheney, twice.
And if I was running for president, it would be one of the main issues my opponent would--and should raise.
But whats intersting is that again, we see the spectre of Mary Jo Kopechne raised as if it was relevant
NOT!!! Once again the smoke and mirrors start to spin or is that a mixed metaphor--you get the point--take your pitchfork and throw it somewhere else
Here's a true fact: John Kerry and John Edwards are not Ted Kennedy and have no connection at all with what happened in Chappaquiddick about the time Cheney was getting his first DUI arrest.
You are trying to slime Kerry by some bogus connection to TK--any reasonable person k nows you can't blame a man fior the crimes of another.
And I'm only pointing out whats on the absolute read it yourself and weep Republicans record:
George W Bush: 1 DUI
Richard Cheney: 2 DUIs
John Kerry: NO DUIs
John Edwards: NO DUIs

Looks like a real good scorecard from here because, as we seem to be in complete agreement that Drunk Drivers menace America, and that Bush and Cheney are in fact Convicted Drunk Drivers we can then absolutely say that George Bush and Richard Cheney absol.utely and indisputably menaced America-- thats men, women and children-- in a way that John Kerry and John Edwards never did.
Now I'm afraid that this would absolutely and indisputably considered a miserable driving record, right?? I mean its AWFUL!!! Isn't it??? And the true fact iis that Ted Kennedy had absolutely nothing to do with their getting arrested for drunk driving, isn't it??
yes we can conclude that Bush and Cheney acccumulated this driving record all by themselves, with no influence from T Kennedy at all. Another specious post blown to hell--yes, we'll file that one with the : They suspended hijm from flyin because his p[lane was being phased out" one (hint: they flew F102as out of Elling ton the WHOLE time Bush was there--but not our Georgie boy--he'd been suspended from flying them!)

Hey you Colonels are good at reading old records ( not arrest records evidntly) Could you guys cruise George's pay records and find out if he got ANY flight pay after 9/29/72--that would be outright fraud.
Thanks
James

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by SuperScout As long as we're talking about bad driving records, let's ask the family of Mary Jo Kopeckne how they feel about Teddy Kennedy's driving record. And just in case our resident uiltra liberal malcontents don't understand history, both Bush and Cheney paid their respective debts to society following whatever they were charged with, while your porcine poster boy of bad driving simply waited a few days, and then whined his quasi-apology.

And colmurph, you can't question these two, as they are the paragons of Big Book (aka the "Go-By" book of AA) virtue, decency, and truth, or so they'll quickly remind us!

Once again you miss the whole point--I'm a sinner trying to get better, Not someone who thinks he's super dictating his terms to the world.
Youre not a happy man and you got nothing I want for sure. I use MArinevet for my role model, althogh I did offer you the chance--if you could act like a gentleman.
But what I really don't understand is youre sliming Kerry's medals--don't you know that slimes EVERYBODY'S medals?? I mean it puts the whole system to question. open everybody's medals to slander and doubt--that would include yours.
I wouldn't do it to your medals or anybody's, I would st6ick up for your medals whatever I thought about you otherwise.Yeah I think I'm a better man than you for not doing that. Paste it in your gold braided hat.
James Worth

[SuperScout]

Utter poppycock! What does one's driving record of umpteen years ago have to do with one's ability to lead the nation today? Now, if either had continued to abuse legal or illegal substances, you might have a point, but since neither one has continued, you have no point.

Neither have I applied for your role model, nor will I, so go suck up someplace else. If I dispute Kerry's medals, most or all of which were based on his own records, how does that slime everyone elses? I didn't write up any of mine, but I did write up all 22 Bronze Star Medals with "V" devices, all 6 Silver Stars, and both Distinguished Service Crosses that were awarded to my men for their respective actions on one particularly busy day. In fact, it is Kerry, and his self-serving, grandstanding, self-promoting and disgusting actions that demean awards and decorations, not I. I know of no other officer, NCO, or enlisted man who ever wrote up his own award recommendation. How many other veterans do you know who had a standby film crew to record his Ramboesque actions? He lied about us then, he lied about his men then, and he's still lying.

[39mto39g]

This is the reason most "GOOD" people don't run for political office, Just about everyone , (At least that I know) has done something in there past that they are ashamed of.
The debates should be on the issues, not the past. I don't agree with the swift boats argument, If what they say about Kerry is true, then a complete overhaul of the system for which metals are given out is needed, but that has nothing to do with the issues that face a president. I also don't agree with Moores movie.
Whats the answer, Im not sure, But the road we are heading leads to nowhere. I don't want a criminal as president but I don't want someone that has never left the house either, People do stupid things at times. What you didn't mention is the number of times you drove drunk and just not caught. That has nothing to do with the issues, and Id vote for James as president.

Ron

[SuperScout]

First of all, kindly understand that I have neither applied for nor have any desire to be your role model. As for your cyber-diagnosis of my state of happiness, I suggest that you go peddle your phoniness elsewhere.

So Bush's and Cheney's driving records of decades ago is supposed to be a disqualifer for high office today? Why didn't you apply the same standard to the porcine poster boy for really bad driving, one that took a life? Kerry's treasonous acts of the 70's are certainly more sinister, more telling of his spineless condition, more damaging to veterans than any DUI by anybody, anytime, anywhere.

To imply or state that my questioning the awards of Kerry is by inference or implication, sliming all awards and decorations is pure, unadulterated ballderdash. For all intents and purposes, Kerry's awards were primarily the function of his own after-action reports and other self-generated paperwork; in essence, he wrote his own citations and recommendations, a singular act of posturing and grandstanding unmatched by any other officer, NCO, or enlisted man I ever met. I have never known, , met, or heard of any other officer, NCO, or enlisted man writing up his own recommendation for an award. For the men in my platoon, for one day's action, I personally wrote the recommendations for 22 Bronze Star Medals with "V" device, 6 Silver Stars, and 2 Distinguished Service Crosses. The multiple Purple Hearts that were awarded were the function of our Medical Services Officer.

Kerry lied then, he knew he was lying, and he's still lying today. That's what 254 Swift Boat veterans are saying, along with hundreds of thousands of other Vietnam veterans, myself included.

[exlrrp]

Originally posted by SuperScout .

.
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Ah Brice, talking to you is such a challenge
"First of all, kindly understand that I have neither applied for nor have any desire to be your role model. As for your cyber-diagnosis of my state of happiness, I suggest that you go peddle your phoniness elsewhere."

Couldn't ask for a better example of your unhappiness, thanks again--as for being my role model, none of my role models have asked for it--they get it if they deserve it. And you sure don't. My role models have to act like gentlemen all the time--Darn it!! Don't worry Brice, If I can't use you as a role model, I'll use you as a bad example
But trying to make people's lives better just comes with the territory of being a liberal dogooder--learn to live with it!! And jus what have you guys got against doing good, anyway? Your record shows it.

"So Bush's and Cheney's driving records of decades ago is supposed to be a disqualifer for high office today? Why didn't you apply the same standard to the porcine poster boy for really bad driving, one that took a life?"
You miss the point AGAIN!!!! Ted Kennedy's driving record has NOTHING TO DO WITH BUSH AND CHENEY'S DRIVING RECORD!!!!!Bush and Cheney got them all by their selves due to hoggish excess of demon rum. Whatever TK did does not give them three freebies on the DUI recoprd, does it?
I don't know why you seem to think that T Kennedy's peccadilloes in any way reflect on Kerry and Edwards--I know you want to think that way but reasonable people don't
Any talk about T Kennedy in a conversatioin about Bush and Cheney's driving records is p[ure unadulterated smoke and mirrrors to hide bush and Cheney's MISERABLE SHAMEFUL driving record--T Kennedy had nothing to do with their getting ARRESTED and CONVICTED fo DRUNKEN DRIVING
And its got a WHOLE lot to do with their fitness to lead--should the helm of the ship of state be held by a drunken driver??? I think not
And as for whether I'd...the porcine...etc, thats another fairly senseless point because Ive never voted for Kennedy and if I did, I'd know that Chappaquiddick would be brought up right away. I think he'd make a better president then Bush though, has a much better military record for instance.
You sure like to bring MJ Kopechne out and flog her whenever you feel like it don't you?? What possible relevance could this have in the 21st Century?? To Bush?? To Kerry?? Only people who like to drive with both hands on the rear view mirror will get the point of that.


"Kerry's treasonous acts of the 70's are certainly more sinister, more telling of his spineless condition, more damaging to veterans than any DUI by anybody, anytime, anywhere"
Even if that is so, it does not excuse your dishonorable and dishonest sliming of his medals.
I'll just put down 2 quotes:
"Dishonorable and dishonestl....they don't know all the facts" John McCain, refferring to the Swiftboat ads
"Sen Kerry can be justifably proud of his military service:
George Bush
Now tell me Brice--who's telling the huge lie here--Bush and McCain?? Or you?? If its Bush, we shouldn't vote for such a huge liar, especially with a drunk driving conviction--and if its you, we'll just shrug it off and say, there he goes again.
I'm just going to stand here and point: What McCain and Bush said

"Kerry lied then, he knew he was lying, and he's still lying today. That's what 254 Swift Boat veterans are saying, along with hundreds of thousands of other Vietnam veterans, myself included"
Well then why would you want to vote for a man who's obviously praising Kerr's records--why do you think Bush is lying?? If thats such an important point, you wouldn't want to vote for a man who thinks Kerry's record is honorable
ALL the people who served with Kerry support his story including the SF guy he fished out of the water. Youre continuous sliming of his mefdals slimes there medals too, doesn't it?? Youre calling them outright liars too, just l;ike youre calling McCain and Bush liars--so youre calling not just5 Kerry, but DOZENS of other Vietnam Vetrans liars. But you like to slime Vietnam Vets that don't agree with you, don't you?? Bush supporters have slimed EVERY Vietnam Vet who stood in their way: Kerry, McCain, Gore, Bob Kerrey--youre good at it and like doing it. Youre not the person I'd pick to judge honesty
Hundreds of thousands of Vietnam Veterans are pointing to Kerry's heroic record, myself included, and I mean THE OFFICIAL RECORD---and voting for him. You say the Offical Record lies?? I might agree with you there but what does that say about the system?

I know of so many cases of officers and NCOs writing up their own citations I can't think of all of them--2 for sure are in Plasters SOG book, one got himself the DSC.
I could give you examples from my own service too. Hre's one: Nobody in my lrrp platoon (E Co 20th Inf (LRP) 4th platoon) got any medals--none-- no meritorious nor V device--except the platoon leader and platoon sgt, both of whom got the Silver Star.
Nobody in my whole Infantry company got a medal in the 6 months I was in it, although Hackworth got 2 Silver Stars, 3 Bronze stars and 11 Airmedals during the 6 months he commanded that battalion. NO grunt ever got an air medal I ever heard of.
If you want to convince me that the awards and decorations system was entirely corrupt, unfair, political and heavily weighted towards officers, you don't have far to go with me--but what does that say about your medals?? You can't see the big picture enough to know youre only sliming yourself
Brice, youre getting the last word here for a while again--I'm heading off for a week, but I'll be back
Excoriate me !! Revile me!!! Think of all the nasty things you can!!Then I'll know for sure youre very unhappy

Have a nice day!!
James