The Patriot Files Forums  

Go Back   The Patriot Files Forums > Conflict posts > Vietnam

Post New Thread  Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-06-2009, 11:20 AM
David's Avatar
David David is offline
Administrator
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 46,798
Distinctions
Special Projects VOM Staff Contributor 
Default McNamara, defense chief during Vietnam War, dies

AP


WASHINGTON – Robert S. McNamara, the cerebral secretary of defense vilified for his role in escalating the Vietnam War, a disastrous conflict he later denounced as "terribly wrong," died Monday. He was 93.

McNamara died at 5:30 a.m. at his home here, his wife Diana told The Associated Press. She said he had been in failing health for some time.

McNamara was fundamentally associated with the Vietnam War, "McNamara's war," the country's most disastrous foreign venture, the only American war to end in abject withdrawal.

Known as a policymaker with a fixation for statistical analysis, McNamara was recruited to run the Pentagon by President John F. Kennedy in 1961 from the presidency of the Ford Motor Co. — where he and a group of colleagues had been known as the "whiz kids." He stayed in the defense post for seven years, longer than anyone since the job's creation in 1947.

Ted Sorensen, a speechwriter and adviser who worked with McNamara in both the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, said President John F. Kennedy thought the late Defense secretary "was the most brilliant member of a very smart Cabinet."

McNamara's association with Vietnam became intensely personal. Even his son, as a Stanford University student, protested against the war while his father was running it. At Harvard, McNamara once had to flee a student mob through underground utility tunnels. Critics mocked McNamara mercilessly; they made much of the fact that his middle name was "Strange."

After leaving the Pentagon on the verge of a nervous breakdown, McNamara became president of the World Bank and devoted evangelical energies to the belief that improving life in rural communities in developing countries was a more promising path to peace than the buildup of arms and armies.

A private person, McNamara for many years declined to write his memoirs. In the early 1990s he began to open up. He told Time magazine in 1991 that he did not think the bombing of North Vietnam — the biggest bombing campaign in history up to that time — would work but he went along with it "because we had to try to prove it would not work, number one, and (because) other people thought it would work."

Finally, in 1993, after the Cold War ended, he undertook to write his memoirs because some of the lessons of Vietnam were applicable to the post-Cold War period "odd as though it may seem."

"In Retrospect: The Tragedy and Lessons of Vietnam" appeared in 1995. McNamara disclosed that by 1967 he had deep misgivings about Vietnam — by then he had lost faith in America's capacity to prevail over a guerrilla insurgency that had driven the French from the same jungled countryside.

Despite those doubts, he had continued to express public confidence that the application of enough American firepower would cause the Communists to make peace. In that period, the number of U.S. casualties — dead, missing and wounded — went from 7,466 to over 100,000.

"We of the Kennedy and Johnson administrations acted according to what we thought were the principles and traditions of our country. But we were wrong. We were terribly wrong," McNamara, then 78, told The Associated Press in an interview ahead of the book's release.

The best-selling mea culpa renewed the national debate about the war and prompted bitter criticism against its author. "Where was he when we needed him?" a Boston Globe editorial asked. A New York Times editorial referred to McNamara as offering the war's dead only a "prime-time apology and stale tears, three decades late."

McNamara wrote that he and others had not asked the five most basic questions: "Was it true that the fall of South Vietnam would trigger the fall of all Southeast Asia? Would that constitute a grave threat to the West's security? What kind of war — conventional or guerrilla — might develop? Could we win it with U.S. troops fighting alongside the South Vietnamese? Should we not know the answers to all these questions before deciding whether to commit troops?

He discussed similar themes in the 2003 documentary "The Fog of War: Eleven Lessons from the Life of Robert S. McNamara." With the U.S. in the first year of the war in Iraq, it became a popular and timely art-house attraction and won the Oscar for best documentary feature.

The Iraq war, with its similarities to Vietnam, at times brought up McNamara's name, in many cases in comparison with another unpopular defense secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld. McNamara was among former secretaries of defense and state who met twice with President George W. Bush in 2006 to discuss Iraq war policies.

In the Kennedy administration, McNamara was a key figure in both the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion of April 1961 and the Cuban missile crisis 18 months later. The crisis was the closest the world came to a nuclear confrontation between the Soviet Union and the United States.

Sorensen said while history may remember McNamara's involvement in the Vietnam War, that would be a mistake.

"I think that his single-most important contribution to this country came in carrying out the policies of John F. Kennedy which avoided war over Berlin, war in Africa, war in Europe and, above all, nuclear war on the occasion of the Cuban Missile Crisis," he said.

On McNamara's later admission of mistakes, Sorensen said: "His last book was pooh-poohed by some people who said, `Well, he should have admitted error at the time, not 40 years later.' Well, most military chieftains — presidents or Cabinet members or otherwise — don't admit error — ever. And at least Bob had the courage and commitment to truth to put out that he was wrong and why it was wrong so that we could all learn the lessons from that."

McNamara's trademarks were his rimless glasses and slicked down hair and his reliance on quantitative analysis to reach conclusions, calmly promulgated in a husky voice.

As a professor at the Harvard Business School when World War II started, he helped train Army Air Corps officers in cost-effective statistical control. In 1943, he was commissioned an Army officer and joined a team of young officers who developed a new field of statistical control of supplies.

McNamara and his colleagues sold themselves to the Ford organization as a package and revitalized the company. The group became known as the "whiz kids" and McNamara was named the first Ford president who was not a descendant of Henry Ford.

A month later, the newly elected Kennedy invited McNamara, a registered Republican, to join his Cabinet. Taking the $25,000-a-year job cost McNamara $3 million in profit from Ford stocks and options.

As defense chief, McNamara reshaped America's armed forces for "flexible response" and away from the nuclear "massive retaliation" doctrine espoused by former Secretary of State John Foster Dulles. He asserted civilian control of the Pentagon and applied cost-accounting techniques and computerized systems analysis to defense spending.

Early on, Kennedy regarded South Vietnam as an area threatened by Communist aggression and a proving ground for his new emphasis on counterinsurgency forces. A believer in the domino theory — that countries could fall to communism like a row of dominoes — Kennedy dispatched U.S. "advisers" to bolster the Saigon government. Their numbers surpassed 16,000 by the time of his assassination.

Following Kennedy's death, President Lyndon Johnson retained McNamara as "the best in the lot" of Kennedy Cabinet members and the man to keep Vietnam from falling to the Communists.

When U.S. naval vessels were allegedly attacked off the North Vietnamese coast in 1964, McNamara lobbied Congress to pass the Tonkin Gulf Resolution, which Johnson used as the equivalent of a congressional declaration of war.

McNamara visited Vietnam — the first of many trips — and returned predicting that American intervention would enable the South Vietnamese, despite internal feuds, to stand by themselves "by the end of 1965."

That was an early forerunner of a seemingly endless string of official "light at the end of the tunnel" predictions of American success. Each was followed by more warfare, more American troops, more American casualties, more American bombing, more North Vietnamese infiltration — and more predictions of an early end to America's commitment.

As the years passed, the war became increasingly controversial. Among those who marched protest was a young American attending Oxford University, Bill Clinton. Another protester, in California, was Craig McNamara, a teenager when his father ran the war.

In 1984, in an interview with Paul Hendrickson of the Washington Post, Craig recalled how McNamara would not talk about Vietnam for years afterward.

"Nobody can get anywhere on Vietnam with my father, including me," Craig said. "It's just not in his scope to communicate his deepest thoughts and feelings to me."

Toward the end, McNamara found himself pitted against the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who wanted unremitting and wide-ranging bombing of the North.

He became openly skeptical about the effectiveness of bombing the north to cut down the infiltration of men and war supplies to the south. At McNamara's request, Johnson halted the bombing in December 1965 to induce North Vietnam to enter into peace negotiations. Nothing happened and Johnson resumed the bombing at the end of January.

McNamara, with Paul Warnke and Paul Nitze, privately transmitted a peace proposal to the North Vietnamese in August 1967. It was rejected in October. With 1,000 Americans now dying each month, McNamara recommended a bombing halt, a freeze in U.S. troop levels and a turnover of war responsibility to Saigon; Johnson rejected the idea.

The president lost faith in his secretary. McNamara would later write that he didn't know if he quit or was fired.

At a Feb. 29, 1968, retirement ceremony, he was overcome with emotion and could not speak. Johnson put an arm around his shoulder and led him from the room.

McNamara's first wife, Margaret, whom he met in college, died of cancer in 1981; they had two daughters and a son. In 2004, at age 88, he married Italian-born widow Diana Masieri Byfield.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 07-06-2009, 05:59 PM
SuperScout's Avatar
SuperScout SuperScout is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Out in the country, near Dripping Springs TX
Posts: 5,734
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default

There is that dark part of me that mutters, "There's a special place in Hell reserved for Robert S. McNamara," while the more compassionate part of me says to me, "Who are you to judge?" I do strongly suspect that he was a very tormented man, as well he should have been.
__________________
One Big Ass Mistake, America

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:38 AM
1CAVCCO15MED's Avatar
1CAVCCO15MED 1CAVCCO15MED is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,857
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default

Amen.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-07-2009, 09:22 AM
03Fox2/1's Avatar
03Fox2/1 03Fox2/1 is offline
Member
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mount Pleasant, Carolina
Posts: 76
Default Death of McNamara

I will not miss him nor will I grieve his death.
Too many good men died for his "organizational skills and misguided mismanagement of the VietNam War " and many more died needlessly in a war that our elected leaders publicly supported, yet privately decided to end with far less than victory. Another example of our military being controlled by civilians, one of our democracies requirements. Because the war is started and controlled by politicians, instead of allowing the military to effectively fight and win, the civilian leadership dictates both strategy and tactics, many times a formula for political and hence military, defeat. Politicians also end wars, before military victory is achieved. McNamara, Johnson and Nixon, all dictated and controlled the war effort in this manner and so is it any wonder that those of us that fought this war have a negative opinion about these men ?
Semper Fi
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-07-2009, 08:26 PM
82Rigger's Avatar
82Rigger 82Rigger is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Fort Walton Beach, Florida
Posts: 3,591
Send a message via AIM to 82Rigger
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default

McNamara knew the cost of EVERYTHING and the value of NOTHING.

It was Robert McNamara who ordered the closing of Springfield Armory, which had manufactured America's small arms since 1778.
__________________
""Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln,how did you like the play?"

Steve / 82Rigger
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2009, 10:20 PM
eriksale eriksale is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 137
Distinctions
Contributor 
Default

I have to interject John F Kennedy with the help of Gen Maxwell Taylor started this "cluster ****" my dad was apart of those FIRST 15K .
Yes Johnson was an anal *******. But Mcnamara was both there pawn!

Lets give credit were credit is due! John F Kennedy should go down in history as the worst President in history!!!

Want to disagree! PT109 twice as fast as the boat that cutt him in half! Bay of Pigs! Cuban Missle Crisis!!!

I rest my case.

Dave
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-08-2009, 04:51 AM
SuperScout's Avatar
SuperScout SuperScout is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Out in the country, near Dripping Springs TX
Posts: 5,734
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default Dave,

I would agree with almost all your post, but would replace JFK as the worst President with Jimma Cahta, and the caveat that he too can be surpassed in arrogance, stupidity, harm to the country, by the current occupant of the White House.
__________________
One Big Ass Mistake, America

"Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2009, 08:18 AM
eriksale eriksale is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Petaluma, CA
Posts: 137
Distinctions
Contributor 
Default

Scout

Whoops your right! So that makes JFK second worst
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-08-2009, 09:31 AM
1CAVCCO15MED's Avatar
1CAVCCO15MED 1CAVCCO15MED is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,857
Distinctions
VOM Contributor 
Default Now wait just a darn minute

As a proud Tennessean I must put forth the name of Andrew Johnson for that high honor. Meanwhile, the Yankees all pull for John Quincy Adams of Massachusetts.
__________________
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Adams
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2009, 11:00 AM
revwardoc's Avatar
revwardoc revwardoc is offline
Senior Member
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Gardner, MA
Posts: 4,252
Distinctions
Contributor VOM 
Default

As a Massachusetts man I feel compelled to come to JFK's defense in the PT-109 incident.

In August 1943, PT-109, along with PT-159, PT-162, PT-169, and 9 other PT boats, were sent out on a night mission through Ferguson Passage to Blackett Strait. Only a few of the boats were equipped with radar. Discovering that their torpedoes were defective, nine boats, including those with radar, returned to base but did not inform the remaining PT's of their action. Around 0200, on a moonless night, Kennedy's boat was idling on one engine to avoid detection of her wake by Japanese aircraft, which had killed a PT officer in a previous night attack. With only ten seconds warning, PT-109's crew realized they were squarely in the path of the Japanese destroyer Amagiri, which was returning to Rabaul from Vila, Kolombangara after offloading supplies and 912 soldiers. Amagiri was traveling at high speed in order to be safely back in harbor before dawn, when Allied air patrols were likely to appear.

The crew spotted the destroyer bearing down on them at speeds reported by some sources as high as 30 or 40 kt (55 to 75 km/h). However, others believe it might have been as slow as 23 knots (43 km/h). With no time to get the engines up to speed, they were run down by the destroyer on 2 August 1943 in the Blackett Strait between Kolombangara and Arundel in the Solomon Islands.

In this instance, the PT boat's superior speed and manuverability couldn't come into play due to the lack of radar, radio silence, and the darkness.
__________________
I'd rather be historically accurate than politically correct.
sendpm.gif Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
U.S. defense chief lauds soldier in pink boxers David General Posts 4 07-05-2009 10:02 AM
Defense chief outlines military spending overhaul David General Posts 2 04-06-2009 07:53 PM
Former U.S. Defense Chief Fights Vietnam Again Otis Willie General 0 12-22-2003 01:09 PM
Former U.S. Defense Chief Fights Vietnam Again Otis Willie General 0 12-21-2003 05:01 PM
Byron Pepitone, chief of draft during Vietnam, dies from illness Otis Willie General 0 09-15-2003 02:46 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.