Lord Of The Rings

[locksly]

Here is a real good discusion on the lord of the rings movie that we had on a deer hunting sight I go to.







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Author Topic: Lord of the rings
Crappie Luck2
10 Point
Member # 2688

posted 07-19-2004 10:18 PM
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So what's the deal with the boat at the end? I'm sure it symbolic of death or something, but tell me why they all had to go at teh same time? I didn't get it.

CL

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If you ain't doing something to help hunting, your hurting hunting - Fred Bear

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Posts: 3976 | From: Lebanon | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged

J-Dawg
Spike
Member # 3681

posted 07-19-2004 10:28 PM
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couldn't tell ya, i haven't seen any of the movies and don't plan on seeing 'em.

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Don't be stupid, you idiot!

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Posts: 88 | From: Olive Branch, Ms. | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

Cuttin Caller forever
10 Point
Member # 3145

posted 07-19-2004 10:33 PM
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ask moondawg

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DavidJ you my toejam

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nsauceman
6 Point
Member # 2068

posted 07-19-2004 10:51 PM
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Goin' fishin goofy...

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God Bless, Always a servant.

Norm Sauceman
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DHNA
http://www.dhna.org

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Posts: 651 | From: Cookeville | Registered: Jul 2002 | IP: Logged

Crappie Luck2
10 Point
Member # 2688

posted 07-19-2004 10:58 PM
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If you ain't doing something to help hunting, your hurting hunting - Fred Bear

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TNTony
14 Point
Member # 1851

posted 07-20-2004 04:00 AM
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They was off to one of BSK's fine deer broseing food plots for a few samples

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I'm a mountain man at heart, and I love a good Beaver hunt.

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Posts: 8120 | From: Wander like a Nomad. | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged

moondawg
10 Point
Member # 2005

posted 07-20-2004 08:43 AM
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The way it was explained to me:
They are going off to be "healed" in some respect. It is their final journey, but a pleasant journey in light of all the suffering they endured. Supposed to be a rest and relaxation type thing, where their final destination has been prepared for them.

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Sorry, the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.--moondawg

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Posts: 4324 | From: Millington, TN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-20-2004 09:04 AM
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They were sailing to the Undying Lands. Elves are not victims of age and disease, only dying if killed in battle. (They basically are humans as they should have been--unblemished, perfect specimens of Nature's pinnacle, unsceptible to evil and its effects.) Nevertheless, there is a nobility in Men that even the Elves recognize, a these imperfect beings struggle against evil to subdue and care for Middle Earth.) As Middle Earth ages and decays, the elves are leaving their homes and the land that they have cared for, shaped, and inhabited for thousands of years and sailing to the West, the Undying Lands. It is somewhat analagous to Heaven in Christian traditions, but really is more like Valhalla in the Norse mythology that more heavily influenced Tolkien's writing. So, yes it is symbolic of death.

As far as why they all sailed away at once, Elrond and the other elves you saw were the very last elves left in Middle Earth, and had tarried that long only because of Arwen's marriage to Aragorn. Their flight to the Grey Havens, the elve's passage to the West, was what all the arguments between Arwen and Elrond over the fate of Middle Earth and whether the elves should stay to help Men in their hour of need was all about. Because Arwen chose to marry a mortal, she could not pass to the undying lands herself, or she would have been on the ship there at the end, too. Gandalf was not a man, but on of five wizards (not analogous to the term which is used in reference to a man that practices witchcraft), non-human beings sent to protect and watch over the inhabitants of Middle Earth in their infancy and struggle against Melkor and evil in general (embodied in the movies by Sauron). So, Gandalf, as the last remaining wizard was returning from whence he was sent.

Finally, Bilbo and Frodo were accorded the special honor and mercy of passing into the undying lands because they were the last mortals who had been ring-bearers. The five dwarven rings had been lost to time, Elrond and Galadriel were elves and were passing in to the Undying Land anyway, and the third elven ring you can see on Gandalf's finger just before he boarded the ship, so he is going into the West, as well. The nine men who were given rings had become the Nazgul and had been destroyed in Sauron's fall. That left Bilbo and Frodo, who had both been severely wounded and sickened by their possession of so evil an object. Worse, just as the Nazgul were kings from thousands of years before who had withered into wraithes and did not die, and as Gollum (who had not yet faded to the point of being a wraithe, but was on his way until Bilbo took the Ring) had been alive for many centuries, Bilbo and Frodo were doomed to live with their sufferings and the loss of the Ring for long beyond the life span of any normal man or hobbit. By passing into the Undying Lands, where sorrow and pain are no more, they were granted merciful relief from their suffering. In part, of course, it is also a reward for having suffered so much (especially Frodo) on behalf of and in order to save Middle Earth. They all sailed at once because that was the last ship to sail into the West.

You really need to read the books. They are unparalelled works of exciting action and adventure that unobtrusively, inspiringly gives glimpses and insights into the truths of what makes us men and women, how delicate is the tightrope between motivation/dedication and greed, the inexpressible joy brought by that those small, pure gifts of life (things like family, home, friendship and loyalty, mountains and forests, rivers and trees, and also, sacrifice and perseverence). While they are not allegories, the truth they contain about life, death, righteousness, evil, and humanity resonates with and is symbolic of the Truth that is revealed in Scripture, and at the least, the truths that are borne in the heart of every man and woman.

If you ever have a chance, listen closely to the words of "Into the West," the song that is playing at the end of the movie, and the poetry with which it speaks of death. I want that song played at my funeral.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

moondawg
10 Point
Member # 2005

posted 07-20-2004 09:09 AM
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Good post Hill Country Hunter.

I kinda liked Gollum.

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Sorry, the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.--moondawg

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Posts: 4324 | From: Millington, TN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-20-2004 09:48 AM
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Great post HCH.

I think the trilogy is a bit more allegorical than some assume. Many forget how strongly Tolkein was influenced by his experiences as a line-officer in the trenches during WWI. That experience changed him dramatically, and shaped his views about social "status," society and mankind in general. Tolkein also used the trilogy as a metaphor for what was happening at the time he was writing the books. They are a story about the rise of evil empires and the courage it takes to subdue that evil. The trilogy is very strongly based on the rise of Hitler. Tolkein had seen it coming and was greatly distressed by it. By the time he started putting the books together, WWII was raging in earnest.

Strangely, I've heard much criticism of the works by some Christian groups. However, the story is the root of all human existence--the never-ending struggle of ultimate good versus ultimate evil. In addition, the lessons taught are not that far from Christianity (in my opinion). The story is really just the basic story of "Good versus Evil" and the lessons are about the sacrifices required to combat evil.

Every time I read the story--especially after having researched Tolkein's life and the experiences that shaped his views--I come away with more "messages" from the work. If I had to distill them down into a few concepts, they would be:

1) Absolute evil can never be defeated in the physical world, but the messengers and harbingers of evil can be defeated.

2) Defeating evil in the physical world requires extreme sacrifice.

3a) From his experiences in WWI--war is the great equalizer. Social status means nothing on the battlefield. Often it is the "common man" that rises to the occasion. In fact, battle requires the "common man" to rise above what he feels he is capable of, and the outcome of great battles or even ultimate victory or defeat may be in the hands of those we least expect. Not heros or generals or great leaders, but often in the hands of individual "average" people.

3b) In the same vein--everyone has the potential to accomplish far more than they feel they are capable of, and victory over evil may rest on the ability and willingness of "common" individuals to sacrifice far more than they ever expected to be asked to sacrifice.

3c) The courage and ability to accomplish great things are in all of us. It all comes down to our willingness and fortitude to "step up to the plate" as individuals.

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-20-2004 12:14 PM
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Excellent points, BSK. I agree with you, in that it is very allegorical. In my opinion, I don't think that Tolkien sat down and thought, "Okay, I need to create a character to represent Hitler, and one to represent Churchill, and I need something to take the place of poison gas... ." (Or, "This guy is going to represent Jesus Crist, and he's going to be Apostle John, or Peter, and now Gabriel, and this object is going to the be Cross... .") I think it was a more general reference to and shaping by those principles that you identified (and, of course, many other about human nature, and the "ultimates" of this existence).

Unfortunately, far too many Christians refuse to look past the surface (Gandalf being called a wizard, orcs being nasty, "good guys" killing others, etc.) to see the real truths that can so dramatically facilitate an understanding of our world and fellow human beings. It blows my mind that people that will read fairy tales like Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty to their four-year-old react in horror when you discuss Tolkien.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-20-2004 02:54 PM
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I agree HCH. Good post.

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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MindGames
Button
Member # 3764

posted 07-20-2004 04:12 PM
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The Lord of the Rings is one the most amazing books (or sets of books) in the world. Did you know that the LOTR is the second most read book in the world... the first is the Bible, that and C.S. Lewis and Tolkien were great friends.

Side Bar. With Bilbo, Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel all leaving on the boat the last of the ring bearers are gone... not exactly. If you read through the apendixes you learn that as time progresses Sam leads a wonderful life and eventually sails to meet his friends in Valinor. Sam also being a ring bearer but only for a small time.

I love these books, I have never encountered a situation in which in the end have I not only read a great story yet know so much about the people involved, not just the characters but all of the races, elves, men, dwarves, orcs, nazgul. Tolkien is my favorite writer and if anyone is thinking about reading LOTR, read them and read them all. I know so many people who have just read part of the first one, you truely don't understand until you've read all three.

I hope this doesn't sound like rambling but thinking about talking about these books makes me giddy. I've read them all twice and I am thinking about reading them again. I know I'm sick.

Later

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Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. Isiah 43:19

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Posts: 17 | From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-20-2004 04:55 PM
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Mindgames, I almost went into the Sam/ring issue, but I decided for the un-read, I would be throwing in too much tangential info. Glad to find another fan. Based on your knowledge level, I would guess your interest also came long before anybody knew who Peter Jackson was?

I can't imagine only reading one of the books or part of one! My mother-in-law watched the first movie and was all mad saying "That was an awful movie. I can't believe they ended it that way. I am so depressed. We don't even have any idea what happens to anybody. etc., etc." She just didn't get that it was only one part of an entire story--not a stand-alone story by itself. Needless to say, she is one of those that can't get past the surface.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-20-2004 05:04 PM
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Moondawg, I thought that Gollum was the single thing where I really understood the character and was more moved by him more in the movie than the books. Don't know why. I especially like the opening seen from Return of the King, showing Gollum's fall into evil. The metamorphosis was excellent!

Extended edition out in another few months!
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

CBU93
10 Point
Member # 786

posted 07-20-2004 05:22 PM
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Although I have not read the books, I truly enjoyed the movies. I also saw an interview, I beleive it was with the son of the publisher whofirst published the novels. Apparently the father gave the son the manuscripts to read to get a "target market" read...the son was a child at the time. He responded by saying that it was a good read for 9 to 10 year olds. Hard to beleive that LOTR is hailed as classical literature after hearing that. I will read them one day though.

Did you guys play D and D too????
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Posts: 3001 | From: Memphis, TN, USA | Registered: Oct 2000 | IP: Logged

baldntatted
Spike
Member # 3731

posted 07-20-2004 05:27 PM
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Why yes i did n do play D&D i am a big R>R tolken and a R/A Salvatorie fan. You guys want anther good trilogy to read it's called the dark elf trilogy.

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God only made a few perfect heads, The rest he put hair on

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Posts: 89 | From: henry co paris tn | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-20-2004 05:36 PM
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I read the Hobbit was I was 10 or 11 and read the trilogy for the first time when I was 15 or 16. It is a requirement in my family! I've probably read both at least a dozen times since then. In fact, I try to read the trilogy at least once every year or two.

Absolutely classic literature, plus a good story. Often, the two don't go together.

Although they aren't classic literature by any means, another fun series of books that get a bad rap from the religious set is the Harry Potter series. Great character development, and again a story about the fight of good versus evil. Plus darn fun reading, even for adults (they were written as kids stories).

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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ChadG
8 Point
Member # 2346

posted 07-20-2004 06:04 PM
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So How long till deer season?

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BRING ON BOW SEASON!!!!

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moondawg
10 Point
Member # 2005

posted 07-20-2004 08:22 PM
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I read the Hobbit when I was 11 yrs old. Never could get into the Lord of The Rings. My wife says I MUST read the book, there's alot of stuff in the book that's not in the movie. i watched the movie and two characters really stood out for me.

I liked Gollum because I felt he was a good representation of the battle between good and evil within a person. Good Smeagol always tries to help, but Gollum wants to kill the hobbits to get the "Precious". It's like he had dual personalities fighting for his soul...that occurs in a lot of us, as well...just not that extreme. HCH, I agree, that metamorphasis in the Return of the King was cool!

And Samwise Gamgee representing all that stands for courage. After all he had been through, he figured he might as well marry Rosie...even though he was scared to say anything to her before his journey. A simple gardener played a major part in saving the world of Men.

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Sorry, the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.--moondawg

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Posts: 4324 | From: Millington, TN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged

MindGames
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Member # 3764

posted 07-20-2004 09:42 PM
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Hill Country

You want to hear something really sad? I was on a flight from Knoxville to Memphis reading... The LOTR triology (the single bound copy of all three books in red leather) being ever so proud of the book when I hear the kid behind me. "I started to read The Fellowship of the ring but is was just so boring I couldn't get into it. Now Harry Potter..." I was really tempted to tell this kid who was all of 8 or 9, try it again in a few years it might not seem so boring.

Now I'm not trashing Harry Potter, I've read all the books and I am really looking forward to the next one. Goblet of Fire is still the best.

Later

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Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. Isiah 43:19

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Pedro Atencio
4 Point
Member # 3697

posted 07-20-2004 10:06 PM
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I should read the books as soon as I get settled here. I have a friend in Austin that's addicted to anything Tolkien. I wonder if I'll be addicted to it too. I enjoyed the movie quite a lot and I'm sure the books are better. Now, in the movie it seemed to me that Galadriel seemed kind of interested in Frodo or is just me? In the last scenes I was thinking, poor Frodo, that older woman is gonna get him
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Posts: 167 | From: White Bluff, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

Crappie Luck2
10 Point
Member # 2688

posted 07-20-2004 10:21 PM
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Thanks for the replys

HCH and BSK, your inside info into the meaning and history of the story is as interesing as the story itslef.


Thanks again,
CL

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If you ain't doing something to help hunting, your hurting hunting - Fred Bear

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Posts: 3976 | From: Lebanon | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged

Locksley
4 Point
Member # 1548

posted 07-21-2004 05:32 AM
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Good posts to bad there isnt a fourth and fifth book.

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R H

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Posts: 342 | From: Antioch TN | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-21-2004 07:49 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Pedro Atencio:
... Now, in the movie it seemed to me that Galadriel seemed kind of interested in Frodo or is just me? In the last scenes I was thinking, poor Frodo, that older woman is gonna get him
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ROTFLMAO!!!! That's the first time I've heard that! I did think that the movie totally missed Galadriel's personality, and even more, entirely ruined Lothlorien in general. WHERE WERE THE SILVER AND GOLD TREES? It was supposed to be a place not of eerie stillness, but of quite peace, light not darkness, where sadness eventually faded away. Instead, it was dark and almost frightening.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged




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Author Topic: Lord of the rings
Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-21-2004 07:58 AM
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Yeah, I read the Hobbit when I was about 9. I think I was 11 or 12 before I read LOTR. I couldn't put it down after I started, and read straight through the all three with six or seven days. Ah, the joys of childhood! I'm lucky if I get to finish a five page document here at work before something else gets thrown at me and demands my attention.


quote:
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Originally posted by ChadG:
So How long till deer season?
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Yeah, it's crazy some of the topics that come up here. Nevertheless, I always go to "Serious Deer Hunting Talk" very first thing after I sign on here.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-21-2004 08:22 AM
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MindGames,

I think The LOTR is a little too intense for some young people. I tried reading it right after I read The Hobbit, but I just couldn't get into it at that age (10 or 11). Plus I found the dark broodiness of the book deconcerting after the light-hearted "lark" of The Hobbit. It wasn't until my mid-teens that I could fully understand and appreciate The LOTR.

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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Posts: 17871 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-21-2004 08:39 AM
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BSK, you're right, I think you do have to be older to really appreciate its depth. For that matter, I still glean new things from it each time I read it.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-21-2004 08:59 AM
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moondawg and MindGames,

There were actually some aspects of the movie I think did a better job than the book itself. I think the movie did a better job of displaying Gollum's true character, and his constant battles within himself. I also think the movie did a better job of explaining/depicting Sam as the real hero of the story. Frodo was "chosen" as the one to bear the ring, but Sam was the one that really--and literally--carried Frodo through his mission.

And that brings up another important series of "lessons" from the book. The power of friendship and the power of the collective. In essence, the collective power of a group of very different individuals--from the highest position in life to the lowest--is greater than the direct sum of the parts. The "message" of the power of friendship, of friends sticking together, and of friends that defend each other to the bitter end is quite clear, and part of Tolkien's experiences from WWI.

The British military--at the time--was strictly organized by social status. Only members of "high society" were chosen as officers. It was a long-standing tradition, and thought by those at the highest level of command rank as the reason the British army had performed so well in the past. Tolkien, coming from some "privilege" was a line-officer in the trenches. It was during those experiences that he finally realized the error in British military structure. He saw that it was the "common man", the man in the trenches, that was the backbone of the army, and it was these common men that would carry them to victory or defeat. He saw common men willing to lay down their lives for the collective good, and saw common men perform unimaginable acts of bravery. He also saw that the completely inept leadership by "gentlemen" officers as the primary cause of the army's military failures. Instead of "gentlemen" leadership being the military's strength, it was actually its greatest weakness, hence his depictions of "great" leaders being subverted by the power of evil in The LOTR.

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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Posts: 17871 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

moondawg
10 Point
Member # 2005

posted 07-21-2004 11:41 AM
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Great post, BSK. I will read the book soon. My wife has read it twice in the past year, and has told me repeatedly I HAVE to read the book. Now that I'm older, maybe I can grasp it better.

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Sorry, the caffeine hasn't kicked in yet.--moondawg

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Posts: 4324 | From: Millington, TN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged

MindGames
Button
Member # 3764

posted 07-21-2004 11:59 AM
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Yeah I love these books, I was dating a girl who wouldn't read them... So I'm single now!!!

Okay, that wasn't the only reason but it helped.

Later

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Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. Isiah 43:19

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Posts: 17 | From: Knoxville, TN | Registered: Jun 2004 | IP: Logged

BSK
Blowhard - Jerkasaurus (non-antlered species)
Member # 21

posted 07-21-2004 02:19 PM
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Okay, that wasn't the only reason but it helped.

Hey, that would be reason enough for me!

My wife had never read the books (she likes "fine" literature and doesn't think much of "fantasy" works). But once I finally got her to read them (just before the first part of the movie hit the theaters), she fell in love with the books. With a Masters in Literature, she agrees they will eventually be seen as "classics."

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"Know where you stand, and stand there" --Jesuit Father Daniel Berrigan

www.deermanagement.net

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Posts: 17871 | From: Nashville, TN | Registered: Mar 99 | IP: Logged

Hill Country Hunter
4 Point
Member # 3690

posted 07-21-2004 02:33 PM
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My (now) wife and I had been dating for only a week or two when I discovered that she had never read Tolkien. Within a few days I had purchased the Hobbit and we read it together over the next few weeks. In fact, reading to each other has been one of our most common "dates," since we were both in college and pretty much zero money for movies, concerts, fine dining, etc. Over the next year, we read the entire LOTR series to each other and finished them just a few months before the movies came out. She is as big a fan now as I have always been.
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Posts: 204 | From: Chattanooga, TN | Registered: Apr 2004 | IP: Logged

Locksley
4 Point
Member # 1548

posted 07-22-2004 06:52 AM
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Older women could be nice depending on how old.

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R H

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Posts: 342 | From: Antioch TN | Registered: Oct 2001 | IP: Logged

Locksley
4 Point
Member # 1548

posted 07-24-2004 07:34 AM
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I think that class has been a big problem with the british army and their whole sociaty for years. I was stationed over there when I was in the navy. Class still means a lot in England and most people dont realise how much our revelution changed our country for the better. Did not George Washington save the british army after Braddock was killed in his disasterous attack on the French. The upper class gentilmen could not or would not admit that we americans knew more about fighting the indians and french than they did. The british always tried to use the bayonet to make up for there redgid thinking and lack of tactics on the battle field. The Romans were guilty of the same type of tactical failures and it cost them a lot of men against Hannible,Attili the Hun and several other great generals of the past. But the tactics used in the movie were not that great either,as no good general would attack pikemen with horsemen as pikes were made to kill horses and mounted men. The Swiss pikemen proved this many times in the past as did Philip and Alaxiander of Masidonia in there battles. A knight on the ground with a sword wouldnt have much of a chance against those or any other horse mounted knight. That is why pikes and pikemen came into being in the middle ages. With pikemen to protect your archers an army could stop a charge of the heavest horsemen though. The English stopped the French heavy calvalry at Pointiers with archers protected by wooden stakes in the ground and the English knightes dismounted to protect there barrier from the French infantry. A wise general never attacked pikemen with horsemen the horses were sent to flank an enemy and attack from the rear. After an army was broken and running there was not much hope as no man can outrun those magnificent horses in a retreat.

[Dragon Lady]

I read the Hobbit when I was 10 and finished the Trilogy when I was 12 then turned and tackled Watership Down. Now I cant wait for the next book by R.A. Salvatore!

I thought that over all the movie did a very good job at capturing the heart of Tolkein.

However!

Aragorn and Arwen were never married nor were they even an "item". It was Eowen, the Shield Maiden, who married Aragorn in the books. He a king and she the last of nobel birth of the wonderful Horse People. This "love interest" just distracted people from the true wonder of the story and caused them to have to drop scenes with Tom Bombadil and the Wright Barrows.

The one thing that struck me in the movie that I missed in the books is how much Sam resembled Tolkein.

They both went into war/hell, watched as those around them were slaughtered and saved lives. They were both gentle simple men who just wanted to live a peaceful life when world events stepped in their way. Then they both came home changed and scarred by their experiences. They even looked alike.

The biography that I read on Tolkein said that he created Middle Earth for the people of Brittan because he wanted them to have a mythology. He studied not the Norse but the Finns, a very small tribe that barely holds on to its traditions today. He was a professor of language and used his skills to invent several languages; Elvish, Dwarvish, and The Language of Mordor. Unlike Klingon, these a fully developed languages with grammar and syntex.

He was by far one of the most amazing men of the 20 Century. He has inspired whole generations to read. Every few years I go back and re-read the books and I always find something new.

Have you ever read the Silmarillion? That is next on my list of books.

[locksly]

I havent read Silmarillion yet but I will as soon as I can get someone to get it from the library. I cant walk anymore and there is no way for me to get to the library so my sister gets books for me . I read the lord of the rings trilogy while I was in the navy in the 1960s as there isnt that much to do on a navy ship at sea but read.The ship was at port in Scotland for a while and I obtained a copy from a little store in Danoon Scotland in 1969. I must have read the storys a dozen times since then. I never read the Hobbett either as they didnt get big over here untill the 1970s and by then I was in collage and had plenty of books assigioned to read for my courses, besides by then I was reading mostly science fiction. As far the british needing a mythology I always thought the Author story and Robin Hood and Richard the Lion-Hearted were pertty good folk lord .

[Bill Farnie]

[i]Aragorn and Arwen were never married nor were they even an "item". It was Eowen, the Shield Maiden, who married Aragorn in the books.

DL, Sorry but you need to read the Trilogy once more. Aragorn did have a thing for and did marry Arwen.


Locksly, Read the Silmarillion before the Hobbit. The Silmarillion is like the Old Testiment with the beginning like the Book of Genesis.

[locksly]

It is at my city library Silmarillion that is and I will try to get someone to get it for me.

[Dragon Lady]

Locksly,
Have you looked into having the library deliver your books? I know that some of them have a service for people who are unable to get around. They sometimes take orders over the phone or online and deliver on a regular basis.
Its been very successful up here in Albany with the seniors.

I'll read it again Bill, but I could have sworn that he didn't have relations with an elf...it was the Rohirrim shield maid Eowyn, niece of Theoden. I could have sworn that they changed this for the movie, but I will read it again just to be sure.

[locksly]

This library doesnt have delivery here at least that is what they tell me. I need to renew my card first that was enough red tape for one time as they didnt want to renew the card I have now because I couldnt present my self in front of the Liberian. They only let people in Davidson county use this liberary yet all the countys around here have workers that commute to Nashville to work .This place is like Atlanta in that a lot of people are fleeing the core city for the subdivisions in the countys around Nashville .We really need a regional liberary but that concept doesnt enter the peoples minds except for trains and highways.I hope to get my card renewed soon then maybe my sister can get me some books then.Old doc 2/47 comes by when he goes to the V.A.AND BRINGS some stuff but that is just what ever he is reading mostly science fiction which I like also.

[Dragon Lady]

Locks,
If you like the fantasy stuff, elves and the likes, try reading R.A. Salvatore's books. He wrote the Ice Wind Dale Trilogy and developed a whole series on Drow (dark elves that live in the vast underground) Very good battles and even some great conflict of core ethics. His main character in these books is called Drizt Do'Urden. I like his wit and his fighting style. Of course it is fantasy but interesting with his dual scimitars. I'm waiting for his next book which will hopefully be out in early September.
I know they can be ordered through Amazon and are not expensive at all.

Maybe check with the VA & even the VFW to see if they have a book exchange program. Nashville is a very big city now, you would think that the surrounding area would be picking up with the rest of the world.

[locksly]

Well its a big city now but no-one seems to do much for the disabled veterans around here . The D.A.V. IS OVERWHELMED with just trying to represent us in the many cases against the V. A. SYSTEM THAT WE ARE FOURCED TO FILE TO TRY TO GET THE GOVERNMENT TO HELP. I hope my nephews get better treatment from the V.A. system than me and some of my buddies get.They are in the army now at the training center in Miss. now getting ready for Irak.Most people have family to take care of them though and my sisters help alot but they live a long way from me and only get over here once a week so I am alone here in the basement of my house in my makeshift bedroom. At least I am not homeless right now. When my wife gets the divorce final I will have to find a place or lose everything I HAVE AND CRAWL AROUND UNDER BRIDGES HOMELESS LIKE A LOT OF VETERANS ARE AROUND HERE DO.

[MORTARDUDE]

locksly :

Great post and discussion !!! Thanks !! Gosh, I wondered what my deer-hunting Tennessee neighbors discussed while sitting for hours in those deer stands.. LOL

What is this web site ?

You take care now.

Larry