Ao Madness

[onesix]

Why is the case Dow Chemical v. Stephenson and not Stephenson v. Dow Chemical.

Also, it was my impression that the distribution of the pittance after the 1994 (1984?) settlement did not require any proof of exposure or illness. The money was applied for and handed out until it was gone.

[Arrow]

Onesix..


We had to document, document, document (that was our experience concern the settlement ). He was medically retired from the service, 100% service connected disability, died with multiple AO related cancers, the total from the class action suit: $1,500.

[Arrow]

www.vva.org/benefits/vvgagent.htm#STEP5

[BLUEHAWK]

LT -

I ain't lecturing here, nor do I claim to have special knowledge, but it was said to me about a year ago by a wizened old SeaBee that God gives us all a choice to do right, and the option of not doing right, but prefers we do the former. It is OUR choice.

Its rougher on vets, maybe, because we vow our lives to the command of government... makes it harder to imagine we did that in wrongly, easier to blame God, for example.

So, your post reminded me that the blame belongs in reverse of your order...government first, then Dow Chemical who'd do anything for the government, and then those of us who had any part in spraying forests with poison knowing our buddies were down there.

In 1964-66, it was my C-123s doing most of that spraying, and I was spending all day every day training air crews to fly them.

I cannot blame God for that, only myself. The government didn't know or care, and Dow was just making a buck, I guess. I worked in Midland, Michigan as Director of their Arts Council awhile... that's the corporate and founding family headquarters of Dow Chemical Company. Quite an education it was.

Every morning when you first go outdoors, there is this intense odor in the air, a town of about 35,000 people only. Every morning when I went outdoors I thought of C-123s, and trees with no leaves.

I was offered an opportunity to resign.

One reason I've not been to The Wall yet is because I believe I unknowingly played some role in killing a bunch of those guys then, and making more suffer right up to the time of this letter.

How the hell I'm gonna ever apologize adequately is beyond my understanding.

I do know this much for sure. I'll never do anything resembling that ever again, and will strive to my dying day to put an end to war.

[Arrow]

I sharedsome ofthese thoughts with LT butput them on the boardasone who has the right to speak having lost one loved one and now another goingdown with Agent Orange related cancer.

In the beginning I held the Creator, the one I call Father directly responsible. He is as LT said to me an easy target. Anger clouded my mind and closed my ears. I just did not understand. But thenI discovered a principal that is as old as this earth. We are stewards of the earth. And once I began to exam what we as a group of people have done with that stewardship my anger was no longer directed towards the Father.

I refuse to blame the Creator for the death and illness of my loved ones.I refuse to blame the boys that flew the planes or mixed the lethal brew. I won't blame theCommander'sthat they served under.I put the blame directly on the chemical companys for not giving a damn for the planet they live on and only caring for the almighty dollar.

They had some of the best minds in this country at work on the problem and I am not convinced that they did not have the genius to come up with a more effective and yet less dangerous combination of chemicals to do the job that needed to be done in Vietnam.

I'm doing a study of the Lakota Sioux. They understood the earth was a gift given to them by the Creator and they were to treat it with respect. It is too bad we as a peopledid not listen to the old ways and were not so arrogant against their wisdom.

[Arrow]

Dow Chemical...the beat goes on...

www.safe2use.com/ca-ipm/01-05-05.htm

[Arrow]

ArtySgt...III Corp was saturated with Agent Orange....

[onesix]

RE: "...for not giving a damn..."

I hear what you are saying. In today's world, and back during the Vietnam War, these companies were publicly held. Long gone are the days of the Robber Barons and/or individually owned large corporaations. One can not hold in inanimate corporation responsible. That being the case, who is ultimately responsible? Who was ultimately responsible for the oil spill of the Exxon Valdese, another publicly held corporation? Think on it.

[BLUEHAWK]

When I worked in Midland I met several Dow scientists, who had worked on all kinds of projects over their careers. One was a great old-timer who had invented a sealant to go around aircraft windows during WW II. His invention didn't work too well for the purpose, but it did bounce like crazy, and became "silly putty". Another was the guy who invented the photographic method by which photographs are able to be printed on newspapers.
I also knew one of Dow's corporate attorneys, a lady who defended the company in court against AO lawsuits, and other things. Very nice, bright, smart and friendly person. But I could never understand how she found it possible to do that, when it came to Agent Orange.
Point is, the scientists who invented AO had to have known that the stuff is about as lethal as possible, to everything it touches. If it'll take all the leaves off trees in 24 hours, there's a whole lot else it will do to anything alive wherever it falls. I find it very improbable that they did not know when they made the product exactly how toxic it is.
Therefore, they (personally) and their employers had a choice, and they made it. The Defense Department had put out a RFP for a defoliant, and Dow won the bid. We all know how untrue the "I was just following orders" defense rings.
Did either Dow or DOD ever think for ten seconds that an airplane could just spray tons of that stuff on forests and there not be any "collateral damage"? And, even if they did not think so, then they were both negligent at the very least, or were outright criminally responsible for going ahead with the program without being certain of it's effects on humans.
Eisenhower himself warned us about the "Military-Industrial complex", but nobody was able to stop it, and we still aren't.

[onesix]

Re: >Did DOW or DoD ever think...<

My answer is that they can not think. They are inanimate. It is the individuals who comprise these organizations who do the thinking.

The organizations can't be blamed. Only the people who comprise the organization can be blamed. In the case of DOW, the ultimate responsibility rests with the owners, the individuals with DOW in their pension plans, 401K's, portfolio's etc. Anything less is passing the buck. Climbing the corporate ladder, you eventually end up with the Board of Directors, and they are put into positions at the annual meetings, where a person who owns even 1 single share of stock may vote and take a stance.

The same is true of DoD. The individuals who comprise them have their positions, ultimately, as the result of the actions of "we the people" at the polls. Those we elected created, or allowed for the continuation of the DoD IAW Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

Blame DOW. Blame DoD. Blame Washington. Ultimately, we must blame ourselves for We The People hold the ultimate authority, and thus responsibility for all that happens or fails to happen.