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Old 02-19-2004, 05:14 AM
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Question Academy Grad v. ROTC

Just thought I'd ask, especially those who have gone through ROTC and the Academy. Do you have an opinion as to the best way into the officer corps? When my son was a high school student, he was driven to become an officer in the Navy. Nothing detered him from that goal. He was accepted to both the Naval Academy and the 4 year NROTC scholarship program. Sean was all set to accept his appointment to the academy, then I stepped in with a simple comment. I told him that before he accepted the appointment, he should check out the NROTC programs in colleges in NY State. He did. I went to all the interviews with him.

After some consideration, he went the NROTC route through R.I.T. The reasons were as follows: 1)He could still get a commission and have a social life of sorts at the same time.2) He went to RIT through the 5 year program and received a Masters in engineering. 3) After numerous interviews with many officers both NROTC and Academy produced, they ALL said within 2 to 3 years out in the fleet, you couldn't tell the difference between an Academy grad and an NROTC grad.4) They said that 50% of all Naval officers were supplied by NROTC schools 5) All newly commissioned Ensigns whether NROTC or Academy are all commissioned in the reserves. There is no reserve vs. regular anymore. Once in, you have to augment, meaning apply for regular status to drop the "R" 6) It turns out that fewer 4 year scholarships are granted annually then appointments to the Academy are made, so Sean actually was in a more select crowd going the NROTC route.

At any rate, he is very happy with the route he chose. In the not too distant future, he will be assigned to a submarine and begin his seagoing career.

Have any of you gone one route then wished you went another down the road. Once in the field did it really matter whether you were Academy or ROTC?

Thanks,

Bill
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Old 02-19-2004, 06:28 AM
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Once commissioned it was your performance that mattered the most. However , I think the ring knockers had a good old boy network going and took care of each other when ever possible. I was commissioned through ROTC. Thank your son for his service for me and tell him I wish him well. Scouts Out !
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Old 02-19-2004, 08:00 AM
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Post Having Worked with Both

Working in post headquarters company, I worked with both.

The 2nd LT coming straight out of the Academy were better prepared for military life than ROTC. 90 day wonders, guys from OCS seem to do better than ROTC officers at the beginning but good ROTC officers soon caught up. In all areas it depends upon the man himself and his character. Good officers came from all three places.

I do know that officers from VMI, Texas A&M, and West Point seemed to have a very good "good ole boy" network going. Which guaranteed them at least a full bird before retirement. I'm sure there are exceptions but very few. Now, they would deny it but from my many visits with officers, off the record they would tell you there indeed is a "good ole" boy network.

I never met a West Point officer I didn't enjoy having a good working relationship. Same could be said for ROTC officers, but a few 90 day wonders were dumb!

My opinion: Good Officers float to the top like cream.

Keith
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Old 02-19-2004, 08:36 AM
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Bill, your son will be a great BubbleHead! Look where he's from!
Fair Winds and Following Seas.
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A veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in his life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life." That is honor, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -- Author Unknown
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Old 02-19-2004, 11:24 AM
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Default Bill

After going around the world three times, to two county fairs and a goat ropin or three, reckon I've seen a little of the world from military prisms. No particular source of commissions has a monopoly on good officers. Case in Point: my first company commander in Vietnam, a West Pointer, was later relieved of command as a result of several screw-ups, resulting in deaths to civilians and injuries to GI's. I knew other West Pointers that were outstanding officers. Our battalion commander during the most stressful period of my first tour was an OCS graduate, and he had the inate and distinct ability to inspire men to attack Hell itself, should the situation warrant. I would have been honored to have led that charge, by the way!! OCS, incidentally, was the source of my commission. One of my fellow company commanders was an Honor Graduate of an ROTC program in Tennessee, and one of the finest officers I ever knew. On the other hand, we had another ROTC graduate that was universally loathed and detested because of incompetence, stupidity, and smoking the girl's cigarettes.

For me, it never really served as a useful deselection device to inquire about the source of one's commission. Self-confidence, enthusiasm, professionalism, a sense of humor, and personal ethos were the characteristics I looked for in subordinates I selected, and if any of these non-negotiables were absent, I kept looking for someone else. It seemed to work for me for all my career.
Scouts Out!!
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Old 02-19-2004, 12:00 PM
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Default The main difference

in graduating from a military academy and ROTC or OCS is the type of commission. Graduating from a service academy gets you commissioned in the active branch, Getting commissioned from ROTC or OCS gets you comissioned in the Reserves with active duty. All well and good until there is a reduction in force then the reserves are released from active duty before regular commission. I applied for a regular commission out of OCS and got it, several of my classmates who would like to have stayed on active duty were involuntarily released from active duty in the 72 to 74 time frame. AS far as good officers and bad officers There are both no matter how you got commissioned.
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Old 02-19-2004, 01:23 PM
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Default Bill...

I know little about: "Anchor Crankers", and even less about; "Anchor Cranker" officers. Still, and regarding military advancement,...I must go along with LT & Keith, plus history about that: "Good Old Boy Network" and/or West Point, VMI, Annapolis grads and such.

Regardless, and whether was OCS or ROTC, if a-chip-off-the-old-block,...I'm certain that Junior WILL MAKE A FINE OFFICER & MAKE YOU PROUD!!! Hell,...If Junior stays healthy and lucky, he in all likelihood will eventually end up on The Joint Chiefs of Staff. You have my personal guarantee.

See Fellas,...even: "Nasty Neil"(long ago nickname) can occasionally pay a compliment.

Neil

P.S. SuperScout knows of what he speaks. Always had brandy-new West Point Pltn. Leaders for about 4-6 month break-in periods in Recon. Fortunately never served in combat, since honestly believing that most all or any of those new: "2nd Louiees" would've gotten me killed.

One, and after giving us seasoned Scout Section Leaders and Assistant Section Leaders 50 HOURS of CLASSES ON MAPREADING (could tell you the declination diagram of Grid North for The Year 3000), while TDY on a large manuever as Recon Officer leading a Tank Regiment,...he got himself and the whole damn regiment lost.

His last transmission after earlier chewing-me-out on the radio for not be at Checkpoint Bravo (I WAS THERE) to me and The Boys waiting for him at checkpoint Bravo,...was: "Disregard last transmisson. I'll be there in about 10 minutes" - Out". It has been over 40 years,...and I haven't seen him yet. Never knew. But, he must have gotten shipped-off to Alaska for that little AND VERY COSTLY boo-boo?
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Old 02-19-2004, 02:41 PM
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My own experience as an enlisted crewmember with officers was interesting. We had two newbies in 67 right out of OCS. Both were idiots. One guy actually told us to roll 3"50 ammo down the decks to unload the magazine quicker before we went into drydock for our yard period. The old man and the XO were career regulars, one crusty and the other like a father to us all, Guess which was which? But my favorite officer was a guy named _ _ _ _. Tyo. He was an ensign who had been an enlisted man. Best officer I ever served with. Having come from the enlisted ranks, he knew how to treat you, associate with you, punish you when you strayed from the path, and you didn't mind because you knew from where he came.

There were a couple of reserve OCS officers which were fine as well, but they had a chance to learn from others before I got on the ship. One bit of advice I gave my son was to listen very carefully to what the Chief of the boat would have to say. He will only be a butter bar for 18 months by the time he gets to the boat. I told him to watch how he uses the bar, he can be perceived as a jerk or a cool guy depending on his attitude. He has already convinced me that he will do just fine though.

Bill
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Old 02-19-2004, 03:26 PM
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In a fair amount of contact with O's as pilots, never had a bad experience with any of them... there was this sorta understanding that we would be nicey nicey with one another inasmuch as while their aircraft sat on earth I was in charge of it's safety record

I did enjoy the association with O's who came up from NCO though... gotaa admit.
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Old 02-20-2004, 05:14 AM
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Bluehawk,

Most of our Regular AF officer flightcrew members were OK but the Reservists were another story. They were the most arrogant SOB's I had to deal with. Several times, I was chewed out by one of these "weekend warriors" for nitpicking stuff like having a shirt button undone or not wearing a hat (we tended not to wear them on the flightline since it obscured our vision and the first time you whack you head on something would be the last time you wore a hat). One flight crew refused to fly on a mission until we swept out the flight station (we had already done that but it wasn't up to their satisfaction). One Major even told me, "We're fighting a war here, son!" Oh, please!

"Butterbars", fresh from the Academy were usually gung-ho as hell for the first few months, then they settled in. I can't recall ever dealing with an OCS grad except for the time I ran into my old Basic Training dorm chief. He was a college grad and went to OCS after Basic. He was a condescending a$$hole back in Basic and had become more insufferable when I met him again. Must be something about wearing brass.
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