"Obama's War"

[BLUEHAWK]

DJ was kind enough to post a good thread on Woodward's book, and I would like to attempt opening a conference discussion (vs. screaming match) about the OEF war itself, the tactics mostly, if that is possible here. If it degenerates, then I ask Mods to please move it to polyticks or shitcan it altogether.

Here are some thoughts to run up the pole, in earnest seeking opinions from better men/women than me:

The Woodward book contents, which I have not digested in full, as reported thusfar are extremely disturbing to me, though not surprising. It isn't "news" so much as it is partial validation of suspicions I've/we've had and yelled back and forth about here on PF since the 2002 period of time.

Most of us will recall back in the day when PF had a number of polls and uncountable threads started re: 9/11, the build-up, which war and where and when, pre-emptive war, "quagmire", "Vietnam all over again" and etc etc etc.

In 2002 I was among those who made an effort to persuade the powers that be to avoid, at all costs, any kind of land war in that region. I did so vigorously, attempting in my own primitive way to predict what has pretty much taken place since that time - though not as simplistically as I put it back then.

I then favored, and still do today, a retaliatory strategy and tactics, swift and brutal and repetitive until the bad guys "got the message" - not only to hold down the expense of logistics, but to better deal with what might be crudely described as the 21st Century Viet Cong nature of Al Qaeda and Taliban et al.

Since the current POTUS came into office, and was given charge of GWOT (excuse me, "Overseas Contingency Operations"), I waited until now to say that I do not believe his administration can be trusted with warfare, and most importantly, with the lives of our cubs.

Knowing that it is all but impossible to contemplate an orderly and swift withdrawal (not, as I do not, anymore giving a crap what the Afghani's or Iraqi's do to one another or to their neighbors), I ask of the wise ones here on PF, WTF now?

We're back to the murderous ole FUBAR of a ROE that is killing our fighters. I hated that 45 years ago, and for that reason I hate it far more today.

Can or will the combat commanders pull this out, and how much patience have they got with the current POTUS?

Does anyone on the horizon have the nuts to cut the troops loose to hunt down and kill the enemy at will and in detail?

WTF... over

[BLUEHAWK]

This report comes out every few days, with a few day delay for OPSEC, from the Air Force Association - to give an idea of one facet on current tactics (p.s. "OND" used to be called "OIF")

Note: Since 11 Feb 2010, there have been 97,792+ sorties... that, is a lot of flying.

Air Sorties in Southwest Asia, Sept. 25, 2010

Sortie Type	OND	OEF	OND/OEF	Total	YTD
ISR	22	71		93	19,771
CAS/Armed Recon	12	91		103	25,957
Airlift			180	180	46,479
Air refueling			51	51	12,912
Rescue			19	19	5,901
Total				446	111,020

OND=Operation New Dawn (Iraq)
OEF=Operation Enduring Freedom (Afghanistan)
ISR=Intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance
YTD = Year to Date
Airlift includes Horn of Africa data
Note: Data for all coalition sorties, except airlift and rescue, which are USAF only

[reconeil]

"Hunt down and kill the enemy at will and in detail" can never work nowadays.
Your suggestion is just so-damn-sensible & basically how WWII was won.

Besides, from Korean WAR ("Police Action" or whatever) to date, America's & Allies' Unilaterally Stupid since always Quite Enemy Helpful: "Rules of Engagement",...just WILL NOT PERMIT US being once again: "So-damn-sensible" at fighting wars or conflict.

Seems that today the use of boots or vehicles to draw enemy fire,...stupidly rules the day.
In my day (4) jeep mounted 30 cals firing away at possible hidden enemy, was the norm for exposing & drawing enemy fire. Such was called: "Reconnaisance by Fire".

Oh & by the way before I forget.
Don't ask for your posts to be shifted to: "Politicks". Won't be as well read.

Political Debate forum new posts & responses are pretty-much relegated to the back burner.

Whereas new posts & responses on ALL OTHER PF forums are always flagged or highlighted at beginning.

Neil

[BLUEHAWK]

It's a serious question, and I thank you for considering it.

[reconeil]

"Serious question"...INDEED!!!

Betcha in MANY National Cemetaries, MANY VA Facilities & MANY Homes of American Combat Casualties that the very same question has been quite sadly asked, for at least about last 60 or so years.

Haven't heard a Sensibly-Sane and/or America Favorable & Not Enemy Helpful (the norm) answer YET!

Why is it that: "America's Finest" are & have for so long a time been denied all those nicey-nicey: "Fairness", "Tolerance" & "Sensitivity" Officialdom DEMANDS (some say Dictates), as being soooooooooooo-damn-overly-concerned about most Everyone ELSE's Feelings (even Mass-Murderous Muslim Enemies) on earth.

Besides, why always show MORE concern for Muslims, Criminally Illegal Aliens or any other criminals & enemies here, anyway???

Hell! The U.S. Military are OUR SOLE GUARANTORS of Liberty & Freedom. NO ONE ELSE!!!

Neil