The Separation Of Fools, Church & State

[BLUEHAWK]

HC -
Thanks for fleshing that out a bit more, wuz hopin' ya might...

[MORTARDUDE]

As regards illegal drugs, as you may or may not know, the CIA has been deeply involved in drug smuggling since its creation. The period from 1961 - 1975 in Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and Burma is a good example. As bad as the Taliban in Afghanistan were, they had prohibited the growing of the poppys that are used to produce heroin.Afghanistan is now awash in these poppys. Guess which country is the biggest consumer of heroin in the world ? Interesting, is it not ? Do some google searches on CIA, Afghanistan, herion, smuggling, Bush, Clinton, Mena Arkansas, Burma, etc. and see what turns up.

Larry

[BLUEHAWK]

Larry -
Of course, I'd heard/read things about supposed CIA involvement in perpetuating drugs... probably ever since the early 1960s when it first came to mind.

Thing is, some of our bretheren and sisteren on PF are very sure that what we are fighting for with our money and bodies and blood is to rid the world of Terrorism (most recently), and that the world of Terrorism is being (if ya can believe how far a person will stretch this connection) funded by drug money. I do not myself know that for sure, and as I've said before and will say again, I DO NOT WANT TO KNOW THAT!

I do become not a little riled if there are good decent patriots who are being b---------d, however. If the CIA is and has been fostering drug money, even so much as one time, while our nation is totally wasting billions of greenbacks for any fictional "War on Drugs", then the CIA has been ordered to do so, by somebody... wouldn't surprise me one bit if it weren't, for example, Exxon-Mobil or some such corporate bean counter.

The worst part is that some of our folks on PF swear to the total purity of it all, and somebody has gotta be real real wrong. Don't much care who, or whom or which. I don't like our people being lied to, thats all...it kinda gets my back up, yers too I understand.

There are today 5,000,000+ felons walking around some kind of way and place in this America. In 7 more years that number will be 6,500,000 at the rate we're bustin' people to the hoosie for decades. A WHOLE BUNCH of them are felons because some perfect human specimen somewhere created mandatory sentencing for minor infractions of the lawful War on Drugs. Felons cannot vote.

[HARDCORE]

"There ain't no damned doubt about it!!" According to the government's own material (mentioned earlier), the CIA and Army too (etc, etc) envisioned, initiated and ran, their own separate mind control projects in the 50s and 60s (at least)!

This is not the only problem, however! The real "SHAME" here is the lies, intimidation and worse, that has been ongoing for decades, up and down the line! "That, and the victims of course!!" Unless that is, some still refuse to accept the truth as embodied in the military and government's very own documents such as:

DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY, INSPECTOR GENERAL, IN 21-75 (DAIG-IN 21-75)

CHIEF OF STAFF MEMO 385, (COS 385) and the

CHURCH SENATE REPORT of 1977, ON THE USE OF VOLUNTEERS (AND CONSCRIPTS TOO) IN EXPERIMENTATION!!

Those who refuse to acknowledge and accept responsibility for their past governmental mistakes, are doomed to repeat them, and the next time around, it just might be upon you or yours if we do not expose them (and stop them) right here and now!?

In my opinion, the military and the VA both, have been given numerous honorable opportunities to do just that, but up until here (this point in time), they have opted to play the part of the devil's deciple instead!? And this they do (opinion), any way that they can, when (not) dealing with this tragic subject!

VERITAS

[kmetz]

Philly--didn't mean my post to sling insults--just want to tell you what I've found out in my research of America's past. I really don't understand how to use the emotions on this site--so I guess I should throw some of those antiquated symbols I do know in :-)

I just wonder if it looks like the statistics you cite for the 60's and 70's are so huge just because statistic were being kept then. Statistics have not been kept on the sort of behavior you mention in our nation's not to distant past. Birth certificates noting a child's status at birth is a relatively new thing (1920's).

My grandmother would not go to the oil boom town in Oklahoma she lived near without my grandfather--she told me that drugs and immoral behavior was so rampant in the town that it was not safe for a woman to be there alone. Now this was a "little" town--not an LA or NYCY. This was in the 1920's :-(

At any rate I graduated from high school in '62--and I've never used an illegal drug (didn't even smoke or drink until I was of a legal age to do so), nor have I had an illegitimate child (isn't illegitimate a weird term for a child? :-) )--nor did I ever demonstrate against the war in Viet Nam. Most of the guys in my graduating class served in Viet Nam--and none of my close friends from high school did drugs that I know of. My husband served in Viet Nam two times, and in an intervening year between his tours, we lived at Ft. Meade, MD, when Highway One was closed down many times by anti-war demonstrators. My husband completely supported the demonstrator's right to do so--and I remember more than one heated argument about the demonstrators between him and my parents.

But, I did, demonstrate against the Gulf War. ;-)

[BLUEHAWK]

Perhaps a slender commonality, on the thread, then:
- If there should be a War on Drugs, then there should be one.
- If not, then not.
- America surely does have plenty to do without it.
- It has not gotten us much of anywhere thusfar.
- If it were working to stop either drugs or drug money going wherever it goes, then wouldn't we know about it by now?
- Hearing about one more "HUGE" drug bust is a yawner anymore.
- Whomever CIA/FBI/ATF spooks gander at PF aren't about to tell US anything that would swing the balance.

So, we're left where we are...essentially distrusting the whole thing for extremely good reasons, and whoever is behind it just goes blundering right on along.

[BLUEHAWK]

All -
I find it very interesting on this thread, and many others, how a post will begin on one topic and end up on something seemingly completely different.
Here we began with "Separation of Church and State", and have ended with "Drugs", more or less.

What so often ties the pages together is discussion of morality, or ethical conduct... and always with the interweaving link of patriotism. Which is to say, patriotism and morality are inseparable.

Most patriots, then, justifiably recognize that it was the IMMORALITY of Hitler's Third Reich, or Stalinist USSR and Iraq, and the hideous criminality of Pol Pot, Idi Amin or the Japanese Empire under Hirohito against which America so often does or should rebel and makes deep sacrifices for. Some of us even go so far as to defend our own Confederacy on equally substantial grounds.

In a way, then, what Patriot Files does is to extend and open the american dialogue amongst those who know best the true meaning of service to God and country, perhaps inadvertently for the purpose of assuring that America's government and our people remain true to honorable and noble purposes.

[HARDCORE]

BLUEHAWK - Amen Bro!!

A travesty or gross injustice only perpetuates itself in darkness, silence, and apathy!! "In a democracy, silence is not golden!!"

As you so ably pointed out, by airing many inter-related subjects, they are kept in the limelight of consciousness! And villain or perp alike, does not feel comfortable when their deeds are consistantly brought to the forefront!

Also - "Agree or Disagree", is the whole idea of a free society, and this concept of democracy is what we are all about! Freedom of speech, within logical parameters, is as essential to a free society as is food and water!

Granted, some (even in politics) would have it otherwise! They redundantly and vocally champion rights, just so long as those rights do not infringe upon their own agendas or make waves for their cohorts, past and present! "And so it is!!"

VERITAS

[philly]

What an outstanding exchange of information between all of you.

K,

No problem.

[HARDCORE]

Thanks Philly - We've got a good site here!!

Maybe some in power will heed some of what we have to say herein, lest they woefully listen in 04!?

VERITAS